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Old 2 May 2019, 06:47 AM   #1021
kilyung
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Kind of Right Mike but TRF has supported this GTG & AboutLife would not be able to do it?

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=635693

(i) LINKS TO REPLICA, PERSONAL OR COMMERCIAL ENTERPRISE WEBSITES or BLOGS, UNLESS WITH FULL PRIOR ADMIN PERMISSION,USING TRF FOR GROUP BUYS IS PROHIBITED,AND ANY FORM OF SELLING WHATSOEVER UNLESS WITH FULL ADMIN PERMISSION AND IN FOR-SALE FORUM ONLY..
Yeah, slippery slope Larry. IIRC (I’ve killed a lot of brain cells since then) management was going to stop G from advertising future events due to the problems (same issues) but were convinced by G (and many of us) to keep it going as long as it was kept at arm’s length and no mention of TRF of any kind.
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Old 2 May 2019, 06:50 AM   #1022
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I’m with you on that Mike! Some of us were lucky enough to get a chance to buy some nice watches! My shipment arrived today as well. It fits just right and can’t wait to take it outside in the sun. Atypical for SoCal we’ve had rain and clouds today. But the FedEx lady still delivered!

Thanks again Gerardo for the chance. I’m still excited!

We’ve all seen these boxes before.

But what is inside?
It turns out they left some tiny bits of stickers on the lower lugs.

I was able to quickly get them removed.





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Couldn't have gone to a nicer guy. Congrats again, my friend, it looks awesome on you!
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Old 2 May 2019, 06:51 AM   #1023
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Back to what this thread should be about, the positives of WIS-CON.
I received the Roberto Coin Jewlery I purchased from the store attached to the AP boutique while we were there and was pleasantly surprised. The 2 necklaces came nicely packaged for my wife and daughter but there was a much larger something else. They gifted me what I can only describe as a quilted pocketbook, a travel umbrella, a gold portable phone charger, and 4 product brochures. I just got off the phone with the boutique to thank them. They were surprised to get a thank you call. The nice saleswoman I spoke with said she doesn’t usually get calls like this and was glad I called. I for one had a blast in Vegas and already reserved for next year. Just spending time with people as (watch) crazy as me was worth every cent of the trip.
Wow, nice touch in their part. I'm sure the mrs. was very pleased.
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Old 2 May 2019, 06:54 AM   #1024
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I got mine tonight as well. Here she is (Tudor Heritage Advisor):




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Great piece!
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Old 2 May 2019, 06:58 AM   #1025
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This thread is driving me nuts. It’s been said before- if the NRD was for the meal be upfront. If the NRD was for something else be upfront. If the organizer wanted compensation let it be known the NRD was for that. This really is quite simple and if I was there I would love to know what happened as well.

I don’t think anyone would have objected to a higher NRD or a fee for the organizer for his time. If it was presented that way, once again, I doubt there would be objections.
Again the issue isn’t about , I had a great time or people are being cheap , its about truthfulness and transparency. Thats it!
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Old 2 May 2019, 07:03 AM   #1026
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I've stayed out of this because of how heated the discussion became. I share Bob's feelings. This was my fourth time coming to the Vegas GTG and always had an incredible time. And, it is true the dinners never work out smoothly. Trying to get people to pay after a bill has been dropped on a large table is like herding cats. Especially when a large bill isn't expected. I do want to focus on one specific comment from Bob. Complaining to the watch brands isn't good for anyone. It only hurts. AP was the co-sponsor for dinner. Not Rolex. Not Cartier. Not Breitling. You get the point. This only hurts future GTG's. Personally, I've made a lot of good friends here that I meet up with throughout the year. I WILL be in Vegas next year to hang out with all my watch buddies. I am positive this will get resolved. Emotions are high right now and I get it. I would like to ask those who are extremely upset to not bring in parties like Rolex, etc that had nothing to do with the dinner. That is where the anger is focused. Every other event was fabulous.
This is a great post and the points are right on.

I've posted a handful of times in this thread - never with anger or high emotions; only with a continued suggestion of how to make things better in the future.

1. To me, it's simple: the NRD should simply be to cover the event and have nothing to do with dinner. State that from the beginning. Putting the event together isn't free for Gerardo and he shouldn't be out of pocket to do it. His travel and expenses should be covered (he spent a good part of the weekend working and was quite busy at the events). I'm sure that most of us would be happy to pay the NRD for the experience alone.

2. Make sure that there are enough swag bags to ensure that every paying member has one. Apparently, we missed out on two this year. I'm bummed about that. I'm not angry, complaining or carrying a grudge - I'm simply disappointed. Stuff happens and it's cool, but, best to be avoided if possible.

3. Dinner, if each individual attendee wants, is an extra charge that includes tax and tip and there is a cash bar. I've put together several of these events for nonprofits on whose boards I've served. It's time consuming, but there are concierge services that will coordinate them for free as they get their payment from the venues.

I think those would successfully resolve all concerns for the future.

In the end, it's not of consequence to me since I won't be attending in the future. But, WISCon is a great concept and I hate to see something that could be nominally tweaked to improve go into this kind of bickering and back and forth.
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Old 2 May 2019, 07:34 AM   #1027
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This thread is driving me nuts. It’s been said before- if the NRD was for the meal be upfront. If the NRD was for something else be upfront. If the organizer wanted compensation let it be known the NRD was for that. This really is quite simple and if I was there I would love to know what happened as well.

I don’t think anyone would have objected to a higher NRD or a fee for the organizer for his time. If it was presented that way, once again, I doubt there would be objections.
Again the issue isn’t about , I had a great time or people are being cheap , its about truthfulness and transparency. Thats it!
I guess I'm just stupid. I paid two NRD's and never expected the free meal. Arrived at Lavo expecting to pay our own way. Was surprised that service didn't track individual tickets but it's better to roll with the punches than to fall down on the first hit.
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Old 2 May 2019, 07:41 AM   #1028
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I have never gone but have read the threads for years and I even know what the NRD was supposed to cover. It’s quite clear and was spelled out precisely when there was a small debate whether to implement one in the first place.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:04 AM   #1029
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I have never gone but have read the threads for years and I even know what the NRD was supposed to cover.
Such a common thread here. 90% of the negative posts are by those who did not attend.

I signed up early and received dozens of emails about this event. I originally expected to pay our own way at dinner. You never signed up, didn't receive the same correspondence but somehow knew the dinner was to be free. Again, I guess I'm just stupid.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:07 AM   #1030
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I think so , you havent been around here for 6 years.and seem to continually miss the point of the discussion.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:18 AM   #1031
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I think so , you havent been around here for 6 years.and seem to continually miss the point of the discussion.
Okay so six more years of armchair quarterbacking and I'll know how to play the game. Got it!
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:20 AM   #1032
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Or possibly reading a lot educating yourself and getting to know people.:)
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:23 AM   #1033
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This was in the very first e-mail that I received from Gerardo:

Quote:
We have limited slots available for each gathering. For Vegas, we have a 150 NRD to cover the place, this includes Friday night dinner (food only, tax, gratuity and beverage is on each. Why? Some drink Diet Coke, some go for premium wine, so it would be unfair for the DC to pay for the premium wine).

Travel arrangements are on each, they all stay at their favorite place, some prefer a brand, others use points or miles.

We provide the agenda for the weekend, some as a big group and some smaller gatherings; in the end this is for you to have fun!
To me, it's fairly obvious why one would expect their Friday meal (for food) to be included and why, if one drank Diet Coke, they would have expected a roughly $40 check rather than the $100 that we got.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:26 AM   #1034
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Such a common thread here. 90% of the negative posts are by those who did not attend.

I signed up early and received dozens of emails about this event. I originally expected to pay our own way at dinner. You never signed up, didn't receive the same correspondence but somehow knew the dinner was to be free. Again, I guess I'm just stupid.
The very first post in this thread, where it tells you how much the NRD is, clearly says it covers food at the dinner, in the very same sentence of the post. If you knew how much to pay, you surely knew what it covered. Trolling people is not productive. Please limit yourself to productive input.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:28 AM   #1035
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Such a common thread here. 90% of the negative posts are by those who did not attend.

I signed up early and received dozens of emails about this event. I originally expected to pay our own way at dinner. You never signed up, didn't receive the same correspondence but somehow knew the dinner was to be free. Again, I guess I'm just stupid.
That’s like saying people who don’t own a particular model Rolex should refrain from contributing to a thread. Come on. Everyone is allowed to share their thoughts whether we disagree with them or not. Besides, it’s relevant to anyone who may attend a future event. Let’s keep the emotions out of this.

I did sign up and did get all the emails and did know what the NRD covered. However like you, I expected to cover my own dinner costs as that’s exactly what’s happened in the past. But that is entirely beside the point.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:35 AM   #1036
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That’s like saying people who don’t own a particular model Rolex should refrain from contributing to a thread. Come on. Everyone is allowed to share their thoughts whether we disagree with them or not. Besides, it’s relevant to anyone who may attend a future event. Let’s keep the emotions out of this.

I did sign up and did get all the emails and did know what the NRD covered. However like you, I expected to cover my own dinner costs as that’s exactly what’s happened in the past. But that is entirely beside the point.
I think he’s trolling Mike. There’s no way he didn’t know what the NRD covered.
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Old 2 May 2019, 08:46 AM   #1037
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I think he’s trolling Mike. There’s no way he didn’t know what the NRD covered.
I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt in case he missed the email or misread the original post in the thread. I’m sure he had a great time at the event and doesn’t want to tarnish the experience. I get it. I have benefited just as much if not more from my past attendance. However this is a legitimate question which merits a detailed answer so we can move on.
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Old 2 May 2019, 09:34 AM   #1038
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I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt in case he missed the email or misread the original post in the thread. I’m sure he had a great time at the event and doesn’t want to tarnish the experience. I get it. I have benefited just as much if not more from my past attendance. However this is a legitimate question which merits a detailed answer so we can move on.

He is ignoring all the facts being posted so he can cover up the reasons this all started.


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Old 2 May 2019, 10:03 AM   #1039
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I think that’s pretty clear at this point just very frustrating as a bystander , I couldn’t imagine if i was actually involved.
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Old 2 May 2019, 10:09 AM   #1040
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I attended all the events, had a very good time, met a lot of great fellow collectors and have zero complaints. I contributed $100 cash to the Friday night dinner bill even though I only drank about 1/2 glass of wine and I still had no complaints as I was happy to help and it didn't seem like an unreasonable request. Gerardo put together a great time with a few hiccups that are not worthy of this level of grief. I found the itinerary that he shared easy to follow and told me where to go and when to be there for each event. So here is a "thumbs-up" from an fellow collector who was happy to be there and felt the cost was well worth the camaraderie. And -no- I did not make any watch purchases, was just there for good times and good friends.
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Old 2 May 2019, 10:14 AM   #1041
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He is ignoring all the facts being posted so he can cover up the reasons this all started.


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I don't know why. Unless he works for About Life, he gains nothing by being obtuse.

Gerardo is right about one thing, not many of us would invest the time and effort over almost a year's time organizing this for $12K in NRD money. It would be a minimum wage job if his estimated inputs are correct. And About Life isn't a charity, he has a business that is supposed to be making a profit.

His company has a right to make a profit on the enterprise. I think everybody supports a profit motivation for his business. If he benefits from the "co-ops" with AD's and brands he sets up, that's not a sin. If he makes a commission on the "millions us" in watch sales he facilitated, that's not a sin either. Especially if those relationships make the event more successful.

The issue here is that Gerardo isn't being entirely upfront with his clients. The NRD covering the dinner was an explicit condition of the sale, there were $6K in additional dinner costs the clients were expected to pay, and the math doesn't work out for the overages on the dinner. He claims he's not getting anything out of the event and he loses money on his generous contributions to his clients entertainment. Most of us work in businesses and these arguments just don't hold water. IMO, for the 2020 event to be all it can be, Gerardo simply needs to be upfront that he's running an event management business, it has costs, and he's making money on the exercise.

All his talk about haters and killing 2020 is a distraction from the issue at hand. It creates additional layers of distrust, which are not conducive to a successful 2020 event. Gerardo simply needs to present the numbers that explain the inconsistencies so that everyone will feel comfortable enrolling in the 2020 gathering.
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Old 2 May 2019, 10:42 AM   #1042
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I think that’s pretty clear at this point just very frustrating as a bystander , I couldn’t imagine if i was actually involved.
I was there and it wasn’t nearly as frustrating as reading posts by people who weren’t there.

I paid, I went, I saw and had a great time. I know more about this event than you’ll ever know because I was actually there. I would like to do it again and hope you do-gooder keyboard warriors don’t ruin it for the rest of us. It seems pretty clear that that’s what you knuckleheads want. You’re posting about something you had nothing to do with in the hopes of destroying it.
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Old 2 May 2019, 10:55 AM   #1043
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I attended the events last week for the first time. I met a lot of nice people and the Breguet, AP, Rolex and Breitling events were nice. The end of the dinner was confusing. I thought the NRD covered the dinner. But, I was fine paying an extra $100 like most of the others on our table. Saying that, the dinner was so-so. I'd much rather the dinner not be included next year. I'd rather a good size room (convention room at a nice casino/hotel) be rented for 2-3 hours and heavy hors d oeuvres be served with soft drinks/water by waiters. The bar can be a cash bar. This way we can mingle more and not be stuffed on large tables. Because of the large number of attendees, everything was tight at the 4 watch events. I'd prefer the large rented room with ample room to move around with the appetizers. I would think most people would prefer that than the dinner.
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Old 2 May 2019, 11:32 AM   #1044
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I was there and it wasn’t nearly as frustrating as reading posts by people who weren’t there.

I paid, I went, I saw and had a great time. I know more about this event than you’ll ever know because I was actually there. I would like to do it again and hope you do-gooder keyboard warriors don’t ruin it for the rest of us. It seems pretty clear that that’s what you knuckleheads want. You’re posting about something you had nothing to do with in the hopes of destroying it.
So what you’re telling everyone is to shut up and not mess with something that YOU enjoyed. Regardless of anyone else’s experience. That they should look away and ignore any concerns because YOU had fun. You’ve singled out those who didn’t attend but blatantly ignored those who did attend and have raised the same concern. By your argument, I’ve been to more WisCons than you so does that mean I know more than you? Since when is an honest, civil (this applies to everyone), and open dialogue a bad thing? If there’s nothing to hide, why would next year be in jeopardy? And if something isn’t right, doesn’t everyone deserve to know?
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Old 2 May 2019, 11:39 AM   #1045
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I attended the event and saw some nice boobies around the Adults only pool area at Caesar's. Much better than looking at the old lady's droopies. I would pay Gerardo $300 extra for the honor to get away and see fresh boobies....I also got a nice watch, drank decent wine and met some cool fellow watch collectors.
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Old 2 May 2019, 11:46 AM   #1046
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I really have a problem with the notion of a "non refundable deposit" what it means and what it might be construed as being, and whether it works or it doesn't.

As TRF is being used as a platform for raising money for an external event, and given the fact that I have no control over this situation I have to decide whether it is in the best interests of the community as a whole to allow this situation on this website to continue.

Given that this is the 3rd year in a row issues have been raised I have come to the conclusion that there shall no longer be any association or promotion of WisCon henceforth.

This in no way is a disparagement about WisCon or those who are associated with it or organise it.

Wiscon is naturally free to continue and it can do so on any website or platform it so wishes, but not on TRF.

Accordingly, no posts/links etc will be allowed about WisCon henceforth.

Forewarning to everyone, circumvention of the above will be dealt with harshly.

Thank you
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