Grandfather's 1915 (?) Rolex Wristwatch from WW1

[Jcporter2]

Good Morning!
I'm new...so I'll beg your forgiveness in advance for my present lack of knowledge!

My grandfather (and namesake) was a member of the Royal Canadian Horse Artillery during World War One. I've always had all his military items...ie spurs, riding crop, bit, uniform buttons, hat insignia etc. I've kept those items in a safe deposit box.

A few years ago, after my father had passed away, my mother sent me a wristwatch that had belonged to my grandfather. It was kind of grimy / tarnished and had a minute hand that was "loose" under the crystal. The watch was unmarked (or so I believed) and seemed like a "crummy old watch". I actually tossed it in my junk drawer...and it sat there for years.

The other day, while cleaning out the junk drawer, I took the watch and was ready to toss it into the rubbish bin. I noticed there was a small place where you could slip a fingernail and open the crystal side and the back side of the case. I tried the crystal side but it wouldn't seem to open. I opened the back side and it opened easily.

I noticed several marks inside the back of the case and lightly wiped away years of accumulated "stuff". I was shocked to see "Rolex" engraved / stamped on the case. Since this time, I've been trying to educate myself on just what this wristwatch really is.

Forgiving my ignorance...here's what I believe Granddad's watch to be: It seems to be a 925 sterling silver watch, assayed in London (upsode down omega in a broken circle), with what appears to be a 1915 "U" hallmark date stamp. It's marked "Swiss", "Rolex" and "W&D" along with a serial number "669087" with a "5" directly below. Additionally, there is a VERY lightly scratched "13069M" on the caseback.

Originally, the outside caseback had been engraved "Clayton Porter May 1918". His name was John Clayton Porter but he more commonly went as Clayton. It appears at some later date, He or someone had "John" engraved above the original inscription.

Sorry if this is "too much information" but I've always believed you need to come to the source to get information. I've attached photographs for your review...insight.

Warm Regards
John C Porter II

[HERITAGE82]

That watch will look fantastic once it gets the Proper TLC, and with the family history (and you having the same name) it will be something special for the generations to come!!!...

Bob Ridley is where that needs to go to be treated properly, but I would be ready for a hefty bill....

[dysondiver]

welcome to the forum , nice provenence ,,, it will look great with a bit of a tidy up.
and hat a fantastic piece of history.

[padi56]

Nice old timer basically in those day a small pocket type watch with strap lugs welded on into a trench type watch for wearing on wrist.Back in those day most Rolex watches were silver and 925 hallmark is British sterling silver only about 1-5 had Rolex name on dial leaving factory.

[Jcporter2]

Thanks for your comments.

Am I correct the watch is a 1915 model?

I know Granddad enlisted in the RCHA in April 1918 (actually found his enlistment papers online in a Canadian archive recently!)...so I'm thinking he may have picked this up overseas soon after arriving in England? I doubt he woudl have gotten it in Canada beforehand (maybe serial number research will reveal more).

As a low grade soldier maybe a 1915 watch was a little cheaper at the time than a 1918 model...who knows. I'm waiting for his military records / pay records to see if he made a "withdrawal" around May 1918 to pay for his new "old" watch?

Is there anywhere I could go to try and learn more about the watch via the serial number? Is the 5 below the 669087 a part of the serial number...or does it denote something else?

What does the "SF RA" represent on the movement?

Sorry for all the questions...but, it's been quite a fascinating investigation thus far.
JCP2

[Keeperoftime]

Congrats on your find. After a servicing and cleaning the watch will look very cool. I have seen a few of these pieces on straps and they are awesome!


Photo borrowed from below site.
Check out this site: http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/myrolexpage.htm

[h.chang]

I have 2 watches of similar vintage , a Dunklings Rolex sold in Australia by Dunklings.
The other one has no markings on the porceline dial , but has a similar Rolex movement.
The data is taken from the book "Timeless Elegance - Rolex by George Gordon.

[h.chang]

Slow = Retard , Fast = Advance . This is used to adjust to slow down the movement or make it go faster. h.chang

[h.chang]

Rolex movement of the gun metal hinged Watch , case marked Rolex.

[Johny]

fascinating stuff. thank you all for posting.

[h.chang]

I have a ladies' rolex 915-18 similar to that of Keeperoftime. h. chang

[wokafu]

man.. love the numbers fonts...great info+ story by the way

[johnbeth]

Great story and watch after some TLC it will be gorgeous!

[Jcporter2]

After searching around on the web I may have figured out what the lightly scratched "13069M" could be.

Apparently, back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for watch repair guys to have their own unique "code languages". Rather than keep paper records on individual watch repairs, they'd simply scratch a "reference code" on the case back explaining (to them) what kind of repair / service had been done previously. That way, if the watch showed back up at their shop, they'd view the case back and know when / what service they'd performed before.

A plausible explanation?

If anyone knows where I might follow up on the serial number please let me know...

The watch is now on it's way to a highly reputable local jeweler for a repair assessment...details to follow...

JCP2

[Tylden Reed]

Hi John. The movement was made by a company called Rebberg. They made several size of movement all with the same design/layout. Your watch seems to have been made and (possibly)fitted with centre seconds work ready to take a centre seconds hand - see hole through the centre wheel pinion and screw hole near the centre that would take a small friction spring working on the top end of the seconds pinion. The 3rd wheel would have an extended pivot upon which the 'drive wheel' would be friction fitted. The numerals on the dial would have been filled with luminous material (dangerous Radium) if still in place it would even now be too dangerous to wear on your wrist! Tylden.

[Keeperoftime]

Originally Posted by Tylden Reed

Hi John. The movement was made by a company called Rebberg. They made several size of movement all with the same design/layout. Your watch seems to have been made and (possibly)fitted with centre seconds work ready to take a centre seconds hand - see hole through the centre wheel pinion and screw hole near the centre that would take a small friction spring working on the top end of the seconds pinion. The 3rd wheel would have an extended pivot upon which the 'drive wheel' would be friction fitted. The numerals on the dial would have been filled with luminous material (dangerous Radium) if still in place it would even now be too dangerous to wear on your wrist! Tylden.

Rebberg was a registered trade mark of Aegler.

Aegler was of course acquired by Rolex, Wilsdorf & Davis etc.

[Brenngun]

John,

What a great story and watch. Glad you rescued it from the drawer. Good luck with your search for more info. I do have one thing to add. Don't be to sure that granddad pick this one up in England. Rolex has a very long and storied history in Canada. Especially the Canadian military during both WW's. Rolex watches were widely promoted to Canadian solders and readily available from their local PX at very attractive prices. Many Canadian soldiers purchased them prior to going overseas.

[fjaques]

Hi John:
I have one that is very similar except that it also has the seconds hand and it is in excellent working condition. W & D (Google it) were the originators of Rolex. I see you query the 1915 date and strangely enough, my watch was my fathers and he was in the Westminster Dragoons Cavalry in Egypt in 1915. On the dial of the watch is "Osias Zelnick, Le Caire-Mousky" which is a merchant area in Cairo, Egypt. I believe he bought it there. Markings on the case are similar to yours except serial number is 604471 with a 4 below. Am not sure what the 4 represents. There is an interesting site that you may want to explore:- http://www.vintagewatchstraps.com/index.htm
Feel free to contact me at fjaques@comcast.net. I live in Michigan, USA. I wrote to Rolex but in their reply they could not give me any information as they said all their records from that era were destroyed in the Blitz during WW2.

[agroom3]

It's been a while but I have a Rolex from the same era and appears to have the identical movement but mine has finer face numerals and a second sweep at the bottom. Case shows no year letter stamp though it has 0.925, the lion rampant, ROLEX and Swiss stamps. I believe mine came from a grand uncle from WW1 who died in 1920 from the effects of gas in the trenches of France. I believe it was bought in London in 1918 - maybe. I just had it serviced and it works like a charm. It originally had solid silver bands with a snap closure.

[Stan Cooper]

Congratulations, John, and welcome to TRF. I also have a 1915 trench watch which I purchased and cleaned up earlier this year. You are correct about the London assay office and 1915 hallmarks. The "u" date hallmark is actually mid-1915 to mid-1916. Mine is "t" which is mid-1914 to mid-1915. I had the radium lume removed and relumed with "antique" Luminova. The hands were corroded beyond repair, so I had them replaced with modern replicas. The number on the case is a "case number", not a serial number as I understand it. I believe (but am not certain) that the serial number is on the dial side of the movement. Mine is marked 7153 on the dial side and is a 13 ligne Aegler Rebberg 18 jewel "Extra Prima" (whatever that means) movement.

Mine keeps excellent time considering its age, but power reserve is only about 12-15 hours, so when I'm wearing it. I wind it twice a day. Also, this was decades before Incabloc and similar shock resistance inventions, so be careful not to drop it or accidently bang it on something once it has been restored. Here are some "after" photos:













I have no idea who Mr. G. O. Brown was or why the St. Andrew's Church congregation thought him worthy of such a gift, but it's fun to speculate.

You have a wonderful watch that should clean up nicely.

[brandrea]

I am continually impressed by the knowledge available here through so many of our members.

Welcome to the forum John

[Dan S]

Sadly, the OP hasn't logged into RF in 11 years, but hopefully he is enjoying his heirloom.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by agroom3

It's been a while but I have a Rolex from the same era and appears to have the identical movement but mine has finer face numerals and a second sweep at the bottom. Case shows no year letter stamp though it has 0.925, the lion rampant, ROLEX and Swiss stamps. I believe mine came from a grand uncle from WW1 who died in 1920 from the effects of gas in the trenches of France. I believe it was bought in London in 1918 - maybe. I just had it serviced and it works like a charm. It originally had solid silver bands with a snap closure.

Bumping up a ten year old thread with your post is not very likely to get anybody to see it or comment since they will only see the original post.

Post up your own thread and I will close this one before your post is completely lost.