Tdap vaccine for pregnant woman

[427_Monster]

Hello my wife is in her 3rd trimester. Doctors are pitching tdap vaccine (primarily for whooping cough) to us.

We both decided no. Any reason otherwise?

Here are additional details.
Newborn will stay home for 2months.
Baby will get normal vaccines at 2 months, 4, 6 etc.
Only visitors will be my parents and inlaws.
No daycare until 18months.


When someone pushes/persuades me using urgency/fear/scare tactics, it tells me she is biased and has ulterior motives.

[swils8610]

Have you checked the CDC website for more info?


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[Tony64]

Agree with the OP,
Why would you accept the advice of your doctors when you've got access to the anonymous members of this forum that can provide expert advice?

In the outside chance that you'd want the CDC's opinion, I submit the following:

"Whooping cough is a serious disease that can be deadly for babies. Unfortunately, babies can't get vaccinated and start building protection against whooping cough until they are two months old. The good news is that you can avoid this gap in protection by getting the whooping cough vaccine (called Tdap) during the third trimester of your pregnancy. By doing so, you pass antibodies to your baby before birth. These antibodies help protect your baby in the first few months of life."

Admittedly probably just government bureaucrats paid off by the big drug companies and working in cohoots with the corrupt physicians, but still maybe something to consider?

[cda555]

Part of my job is to coordinate vaccination clinics across the country. We give pregnant women Tdap all the time. Here is the direct link to the VIS (Vaccine Information Sheet) http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/...ments/tdap.pdf

Since you will keep the baby in isolation, it should be fine to skip. Do note that it takes at least 21 days for the immunity to develop, so once the baby gets the vaccination, you should wait another month before exposure. Also, make sure you and anyone else who does come over washed their hands thoroughly before contact. Just because they are immune doesn't mean they haven't come into contact with it.

[Dr.Brian]

This corrupt physician wants a new Patek.
I'm sure all my medical advice is therefore suspect.
The decision of how and when to vaccinate, or not, is yours. That decision, like many in life can have serious consequences that you will have to live with. Hopefully you arrive at your decision with real evidence and an open mind. There's a lot of faux evidence out there. Choose your sources carefully.

[towernick]

Will you be staying home for the first two months?

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

This corrupt physician wants a new Patek.
I'm sure all my medical advice is therefore suspect.
The decision of how and when to vaccinate, or not, is yours. That decision, like many in life can have serious consequences that you will have to live with. Hopefully you arrive at your decision with real evidence and an open mind. There's a lot of faux evidence out there. Choose your sources carefully.

I never said I am close minded. I am open to all viewpoints.

Where are reliable sources? Where do I get real evidence?

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by cda555

Part of my job is to coordinate vaccination clinics across the country. We give pregnant women Tdap all the time. Here is the direct link to the VIS (Vaccine Information Sheet) http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/...ments/tdap.pdf

Since you will keep the baby in isolation, it should be fine to skip. Do note that it takes at least 21 days for the immunity to develop, so once the baby gets the vaccination, you should wait another month before exposure. Also, make sure you and anyone else who does come over washed their hands thoroughly before contact. Just because they are immune doesn't mean they haven't come into contact with it.

Thanks. The 21day immunity development is really helpful.

[swils8610]

If your going to get your child vaccinated between 2 to 6 months why are you concerned about doing it pre birth?


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[Dyim]

My wife never had any vaccine during her pregnancies.

Is this a US thing?

[mmutte]

The ulterior motives of that physician giving you the advice is to potentially save the life of your newborn child. Pertussis is no joke for newborns, especially if the child is born premature. I would choose wisely. Just my 2 cents.

And seriously, what is the negative associated with it for you? How would you feel if you decided to not get a simple little shot and your newborn gets pertussis? Sorry to be blunt and up front but I don't quite understand your rationale? I can assure you that physician is not making money by recommending the shot and big deal if they were...the facts are the facts--it could save your child's life. Here's the CDC recommendation.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/pertussis/

Finally, FWIW my wife is a Pediatric ER MD and has seen several newborns die from pertussis.

[treeinthecity]

We have a 8 week old and my wife and I both had the shot. Like Matt said I just don't see the down side.

[rr-nyc]

My wife gave birth to our son last March. I recall her OB suggesting and then giving her the Tdap shot but I don't recall which week. It was not suggested that I have it but I would have had I been given the choice.

Like all vaccinations, this is suggested but not required but I see no harm whatsoever in providing every safeguard to protect your newborn child.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 427_Monster

Hello my wife is in her 3rd trimester. Doctors are pitching tdap vaccine (primarily for whooping cough) to us.

We both decided no. Any reason otherwise?

Here are additional details.
Newborn will stay home for 2months.
Baby will get normal vaccines at 2 months, 4, 6 etc.
Only visitors will be my parents and inlaws.
No daycare until 18months.


When someone pushes/persuades me using urgency/fear/scare tactics, it tells me she is biased and has ulterior motives.

In my experience, doctors tend to hard sell prevention. And most people would rather not get sick in the first place, which makes the pitch worthwhile. I'm not sure what ulterior motive the doctor might have, other than preventing your newborn from getting really sick, but you seem to have a perception that there some sort of medical conspiracy going on.

It's your child and your choice, but you should educate yourself on the values of the vaccination before leaping to the conclusion that the doctor is up to no good.

[daveathall]

Does it cost to get the Tdap shot? Is this a cost saving exercise? I ask these questions because I don't know the answers in this case.

It has been nearly 40 years since I had children so can't remember the jobs etc my wife had at that time.

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by swils8610

If your going to get your child vaccinated between 2 to 6 months why are you concerned about doing it pre birth?


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Cdc just recently approved (2011) the vaccine for pre birth whereas post birth has been around longer (early 90s).

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

In my experience, doctors tend to hard sell prevention. And most people would rather not get sick in the first place, which makes the pitch worthwhile. I'm not sure what ulterior motive the doctor might have, other than preventing your newborn from getting really sick, but you seem to have a perception that there some sort of medical conspiracy going on.

It's your child and your choice, but you should educate yourself on the values of the vaccination before leaping to the conclusion that the doctor is up to no good.

Appreciate all the comments guys.


I'm not anti vaccination or a conspiracy theorist.
My perception stems from the hard sell. I just get really nervous when people sway me to 1 direction - whether it's a doctor, wealth advisor, or even a stranger.

I'm just trying to get unbiased information.

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by mmutte

The ulterior motives of that physician giving you the advice is to potentially save the life of your newborn child. Pertussis is no joke for newborns, especially if the child is born premature. I would choose wisely. Just my 2 cents.

And seriously, what is the negative associated with it for you? How would you feel if you decided to not get a simple little shot and your newborn gets pertussis? Sorry to be blunt and up front but I don't quite understand your rationale? I can assure you that physician is not making money by recommending the shot and big deal if they were...the facts are the facts--it could save your child's life. Here's the CDC recommendation.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/pertussis/

Finally, FWIW my wife is a Pediatric ER MD and has seen several newborns die from pertussis.

We made advances in understanding human body, but there's still so so so much that we don't know.

I'm worried about potential side effects from introducing a chemical/toxin into a developing body. Everybody is different. It might work for 95% of the population, but it might not work for us.

And don't say that it works 100%. Nothing in life works 100%, especially if you start dividing into sub populations.

[Demosthene]

Originally Posted by 427_Monster

We made advances in understanding human body, but there's still so so so much that we don't know.

I'm worried about potential side effects from introducing a chemical/toxin into a developing body. Everybody is different. It might work for 95% of the population, but it might not work for us.

And don't say that it works 100%. Nothing in life works 100%, especially if you start dividing into sub populations.

Watch this and tell me if you want this to happen to your baby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZrMGDMMw
I had Pertussis as a child and still have the memories of coughing to the point of vomiting every night.

And now thanks to one fraudulent 1998 research paper we have this happening.

[427_Monster]

Originally Posted by Demosthene

Watch this and tell me if you want this to happen to your baby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3oZrMGDMMw
I had Pertussis as a child and still have the memories of coughing to the point of vomiting every night.

And now thanks to one fraudulent 1998 research paper we have this happening.

Thanks for the objective data.


But is there any data like this?
Starting population is newborn under 2months who contract whooping cough.

Split them into
1. Newborn without tdap vaccine.
2. Newborn with tdap vaccine.

Does population 1 have better survival/less damage than population 2?
What side effects do population 1 have compared to nonvaccinated newborns?





I know I'm not in the proper forum to get this information. I'm just trying to get a different perspective.

[427_Monster]

Thanks for the all the comments guys.

My wife and I discussed it and decided no. We discussed it with ob doctors/nurses.
They still prefer the vaccine, but the consensus is our risk will be lower given that our newborn will be isolated in first couple of months.

This was my initial thinking. And same thing that cda555 stated.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Does it cost to get the Tdap shot? Is this a cost saving exercise? I ask these questions because I don't know the answers in this case.

It has been nearly 40 years since I had children so can't remember the jabs etc my wife had at that time.

Anyone?

[mannyv11]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Anyone?

my wife and all both got the tdap shot and our insurance paid for the entire cost.

I also do not see the ill effect of getting the tdap shot. My wife's doctor recommended that both of us get it and we did. Just because your baby will be isolated for a few months does not mean you will be isolated.

Our doctor told us anyone that is going to be in close proximity to our baby very often they would recommend that they receive the tdap as well, so all of her grandparents did as well. I don't see the point of risking a newborns life when preventing anything from happening to it is a simple shot.

[cda555]

Originally Posted by 427_Monster

Thanks for the all the comments guys.

My wife and I discussed it and decided no. We discussed it with ob doctors/nurses.
They still prefer the vaccine, but the consensus is our risk will be lower given that our newborn will be isolated in first couple of months.

This was my initial thinking. And same thing that cda555 stated.

Just to clarify, I agree that it is your choice. That said, make triple sure the people that do come into contact (grandparents, and yourself) are fully clean (not just hands) when they come over. I would even make them wear surgical gowns (you can get a pack of 50 for $20 on Amazon). Just because they are vaccinated, or don't have symptoms, doesn't mean they haven't come into contact with it. Also, the minimum is 21 days, but I would wait a full month after the shot before venturing out.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by mannyv11

my wife and all both got the tdap shot and our insurance paid for the entire cost.

I also do not see the ill effect of getting the tdap shot. My wife's doctor recommended that both of us get it and we did. Just because your baby will be isolated for a few months does not mean you will be isolated.

Our doctor told us anyone that is going to be in close proximity to our baby very often they would recommend that they receive the tdap as well, so all of her grandparents did as well. I don't see the point of risking a newborns life when preventing anything from happening to it is a simple shot.

Thank you very much. I certainly agree with you.

[uscmatt99]

Originally Posted by 427_Monster

Thanks for the objective data.


But is there any data like this?
Starting population is newborn under 2months who contract whooping cough.

Split them into
1. Newborn without tdap vaccine.
2. Newborn with tdap vaccine.

Does population 1 have better survival/less damage than population 2?
What side effects do population 1 have compared to nonvaccinated newborns?





I know I'm not in the proper forum to get this information. I'm just trying to get a different perspective.

That study could not be ethically conducted with appropriate scientific rigor given the preponderance of evidence that not vaccinating a newborn would cause harm. You can fish for scientific evidence supporting your decision all day long, I doubt you'll find anything.

Keep in mind that the character and severity of symptoms in infected adults can vary, and pertussis can be very difficult to differentiate from common upper respiratory tract infections. Best bet for your new addition would be to keep your baby, you and your wife in isolation for a month, and stock up on supplies. Especially if you live in an area with a relatively large population that chooses not to vaccinate their children. That's the reason that this vaccine is now being offered to parents in the first place, as a defense against the withering herd immunity to pertussis.

[JohnBaker3]

Posted without comment...

[Dr.Brian]

Here is an article with some numbers.
Infant and maternal risk factors for pertussis-related infant mortality in the United States, 1999 to 2004.
Haberling DL, et al. Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2009.
Show full citation
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Infants aged <12 months have the highest rates of complications and death from pertussis of any age group. Factors that increase the risk of pertussis-related death in infants are not well defined.

METHODS: The US Multiple Cause-of-Death and Linked Birth/Infant Death databases were used for 1999 to 2004 to examine pertussis-related infant mortality rates and to obtain anonymous records of infants with pertussis listed as a cause of death and of surviving infants. Infant and maternal characteristics present at the time of birth for infants who died with pertussis were compared with those of surviving infants.

RESULTS: During 1999 to 2004, 91 infant deaths were reported with pertussis as a cause of death. All infants were 7 months or younger; 58% were age <2 months. The average annual infant mortality rate attributed to pertussis was 3.8 (95% CI: 3.0-4.6) per 1,000,000 live births, and 13.1 (95% CI: 9.8-17.1) per 1,000,000 live births for infants aged <2 months. Infant pertussis deaths showed an independent association with birth weight <2500 g, female sex, Apgar score <8, and mother with <12 years education. The mortality rate among Hispanic infants aged <2 months was 2.6 times greater than among non-Hispanic infants of similar age.

CONCLUSIONS: Ensuring pertussis booster vaccination of adults and adolescents in close contact with an infant is warranted to prevent transmission of pertussis to vulnerable infants, particularly infants too young to be immunized. Special emphasis should be given to women and infant settings in which the risk of infant pertussis death might be increased.

PMID 19209089 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text
Full text at journal site

[Dr.Brian]

Someone's going to be the 1:100k. I'd rather it not be my child. Many roll the dice. It wasn't even an option when I had my kids (that I'm aware of). We did fine. Others didn't.
That's why I say try to do real research and at least make educated choices. Or listen to celebs like Jenny McCarthy... Who's anti vax stance was/is well known... Except... Her child may not even have autism after all. How about that. I'm sure the vaccines did it either way.
I'd love to see any evidence that vaccinations are killing more babies than pertussis.

[Syed117]

Originally Posted by JohnBaker3

Posted without comment...

People who post things like that don't have a comment worth making.

The skull and crossbones are also super scary.