Nautilus VS Datejust

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Every one keeps referring to the level of “finishing and craftsmanship” on a Patek, that separates itself from Rolex. Can you provide details please? Where is this craftsmanship and finishing exactly? that is miles ahead of say a DD40?

Even if I were a millionaire I would never pay 50k for stainless steel watch.

Yes, a Rolex is a mass produced watch and doesn't have nearly the finishing of a Patek. It's just like comparing a Mercedes to something more hand built, like a Rolls Royce. There are zillions of high end watches that outclass Rolex in finish and complications in the haute horology world. Heck, even Grand Seiko tends to have better finishing, and they're generally a little cheaper than equivalent Rolex watches.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Every one keeps referring to the level of “finishing and craftsmanship” on a Patek, that separates itself from Rolex. Can you provide details please? Where is this craftsmanship and finishing exactly? that is miles ahead of say a DD40?

Even if I were a millionaire I would never pay 50k for stainless steel watch.

You can agree or disagree but this Watchfinder video may help you understand. They compare a Speedmaster to a Patek Philippe 5170P.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT9rvtlk_yc&t=1s

[Art 1]

There is nothing about the PP that I care for.

[Frank McKay]

Originally Posted by douglasf13

Yes, a Rolex is a mass produced watch and doesn't have nearly the finishing of a Patek. It's just like comparing a Mercedes to something more hand built, like a Rolls Royce. There are zillions of high end watches that outclass Rolex in finish and complications in the haute horology world. Heck, even Grand Seiko tends to have better finishing, and they're generally a little cheaper than equivalent Rolex watches.

Again, the word “craftsmanship” pointed out but no detail. Where exactly is the SS Patek better crafted than the PM DD? The bracelet? The bezel? Is the finishing what justifies the 50k price tag on a SS watch? I’m not buying the hype.


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[SubMarine]

I vastly prefer the day date...

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Again, the word “craftsmanship” pointed out but no detail. Where exactly is the SS Patek better crafted than the PM DD? The bracelet? The bezel? Is the finishing what justifies the 50k price tag on a SS watch? I’m not buying the hype.


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[tkdgod]

5990 is the only Patek I want and would buy if I had the money

[Nikrnic]

Wow I just bought a DJ41 and saved over 40k

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[katemoss]

honestly have DJ41 and 5980 Big Blue and I personally enjoy them the same. Obvi one is a heavy hitter and one is not. pictures don't do justice. DJ41 Jubilee is a great piece

[sgarrity]

$50k for a stainless steel watch with no complications other than a date? That’s a hard pass. At some point you’re just buying the PP name. Now the Calatrava line, some good stuff there and in gold. I just have zero use for a dress watch. In today’s casual society a SS Rolex can go from shorts and flip flops at the beach to black tie at the symphony and no one is going to look down their nose.

[nbsheeran]

I don't get the hype over the Nautilus. It does absolutely nothing for me. The design to me is dated, not timeless. Superior craftsmanship and finishing? The seconds don't hack and the bracelet uses pins. I will say the movement finishing is impressive, just based on the above picture, but for that money, I would get a watch just as well finished that doesn't look like some 70s-era schlock.

If you changed nothing about the Nautilus except the price to match that of a Datejust, I would still choose the DJ every single time (and I don't even like the Datejust). But if you did that, no one would care about the Nautilus anymore, would they?

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Again, the word “craftsmanship” pointed out but no detail. Where exactly is the SS Patek better crafted than the PM DD? The bracelet? The bezel? Is the finishing what justifies the 50k price tag on a SS watch? I’m not buying the hype.


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It's a hand made watch with, yes, better finishing. It's really horology 101, and you can spend your own time researching the differences. Plus, it's not really a $50k watch. That's just what people willing to pay over MSRP, because the watches are so desirable and hard to get.

Rolex makes a fantastic watch, but it's a mass produced watch with lots of help by machine. You pay for the exclusivity of a handmade, haute horology piece like Patek, and, before Rolex owners say that's silly, we should remember that even Rolex prices are silly. If you want a no frills, super durable watch that isn't a Veblen good, you buy a G-Shock, not a basic steel automatic watch for $7K.

p.s. this is coming from someone who thinks a DateJust is probably the best all around automatic watch that's out there. just calling a spade a spade.

[douglasf13]

Originally Posted by nbsheeran

If you changed nothing about the Nautilus except the price to match that of a Datejust, I would still choose the DJ every single time (and I don't even like the Datejust). But if you did that, no one would care about the Nautilus anymore, would they?

If you changed the price of a DJ to $1700 (like they were in 1970 with inflation,) less people would care about Rolex, too. That was a strategic move by Rolex over the years to transition from being more of a tool watch to being a piece of Veblen jewelry.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by AK797

Patek is a more advanced and complicated horological manufacturer as we know and so even this base model will reflect that in price, and as Tyler says the resale value is more than double retail now as it is so coveted, quite beyond reason really but so are many other models. However the Nautilus design is unorthodox and certainly not for everyone so no harm if it is not to your taste, in fact your bank manager will be delighted with you.

Not so sure Patek is a more advanced horological manufacturer than Rolex. Makes more complicated pieces yes, but I don't think they are making anything that Rolex wouldn't know how if they wanted to.

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Every one keeps referring to the level of “finishing and craftsmanship” on a Patek, that separates itself from Rolex. Can you provide details please? Where is this craftsmanship and finishing exactly? that is miles ahead of say a DD40?

Even if I were a millionaire I would never pay 50k for stainless steel watch.

https://www.patek.com/en/company/sav...hand-finishing

Click above link to read this.....^^^..... “finishing and craftsmanship”

[SL BRABUS]

Rolex VS Patek Philippe

Both have the BEST of brand identity......

It is what it is....

Rolex will never be Patek Philippe caliber as brand wise.....



It more like Rolex (Mercedes-Benz) vs Patek (Rolls Royce).......

No doubt about it Nautilus is a GREAT watch and will get it in the near future...





Here are some of the video to get an idea why people pay big money for the Nautilus...^^^....

IMHO...

Those who LOVE Rolex as much as I do but want a Patek Philippe...

I think a better comparison would be DateJust VS Aquanaut 5167/1A bracelet version.....



On the video Tim Mosso say it wear like or better than the Rolex oyster bracelet ....^^^...... Tim also quote on youtube (Full bracelet 5167/1As are scarce. How scarce? I've shot almost a dozen Nautilus and Aquanaut variants on this channel since mid 2017, and this is my first full-bracelet Aquanaut. Best, Tim)

I know it not a Nautilus but this is my short review on my Aquanaut 5167/1A bracelet version VS Rolex SS Daytona ..... So you could get an idea about the Nautilus finishing and craftsmanship....

1. Aquanaut 5167 is the only Patek Philippe watch that can be change to 3 different type of Patek Philippe original equipment manufacturer strap such as bracelet, rubber, and crocodile leather strap with pin buckle or Calatrava cross deployant clasp....

I got the bracelet version because you can always add a rubber strap with deployant clasp and crocodile leather strap with pin buckle or Calatrava cross deployant clasp, later on in the future.

Most people in TRF say the bracelet is less popular then the rubber strap....

I know for the fact both pieces are sought after..... The waiting time is the same as rubber strap due to (1 out of 5) 5167 the bracelet is produce.....

Regarding about the Aquanaut bracelet version is very solid like the Rolex oyster bracelet unlike the Nautilus bracelet where people complain it clumsy and light weight making it feel fragile, not solid like the Rolex bracelet..... Nonetheless Nautilus is good looking bracelet...





The weight of the Aquanaut bracelet version is surprisingly at 137 grams with 2 links taking off the watch, same as the Rolex SS Daytona at 137 grams with 1 link taking off the watch.....

Technical the 5167/1a is a heavier watch compare to SS Daytona if both to have full links..





The 5167 bracelet version is very comfortable.... It like wearing a Rolex Daytona reference 116520

2. IMHO I find that the sunburst dial on the 5167 is more nicer than 5711...... It have that 50 shade of gray until it turn black depend on the light condition.... My favorite color of the dial depend on the light condition is when it anodizing aluminum, it give that gray/bronze look..






3. I think you all have to agree with me on this one... Very easy to read time quickly during day or night.... The lume is amazing both on the hour markers and the Arabic numerals....







4. Nobody dose the workmanship like a Patek Philippe... Nobody....









5. Strong conservative resale value......

Conclusion....

The Aquanaut bracelet version is flashy like the SS Daytona...... If you want under the radar then it best to go with the rubber strap.....

If you love how the Rolex SS Daytona wear plus want the big look of the Rolex Submariner, Patek Philippe Aquanaut 5167/1a-001on bracelet is the way to go, no doubt about it....






More video about Nautilus & Aquanaut if you guys interested..^^^..

Hopefully the information is helpful....

[soundserious]

Both of those are entry level watches for their respective brands. Value is relative. Buy a Seiko with a blue dial and you’ll win the game!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Every one keeps referring to the level of “finishing and craftsmanship” on a Patek, that separates itself from Rolex. Can you provide details please? Where is this craftsmanship and finishing exactly? that is miles ahead of say a DD40?

Even if I were a millionaire I would never pay 50k for stainless steel watch.

all you have to do is look at one.

[SL BRABUS]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

all you have to do is look at one.

Where on earth he going to find a Nautilus or Aquanaut to look at one.........

[GB-man]

Diminishing returns for sure but that’s the case with most all expensive watches.

[Double Barrel]

Datejust is the better watch design and use wise. The Nautilus has its fan base based on rarity, brand name, history of hand finishing etc. I would choose a different watch from the Patek catalog if i was looking for a better hand finished watch.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by SL BRABUS

Where on earth he going to find a Nautilus or Aquanaut to look at one.........

good point

The Rolex vs Patek argument always devolves into a durability argument. If you want a durable watch, Rolex wins. Any thread on how worried people get about Patek scratches would indicate the level of finishing that they are worried about. Its not like its the actual steel being damaged, its the intricately finished surfaces. Rolex is far more industrial and simple in their finishing. Its very nice, but its also very simple.

Its apples and oranges, and trying to put Rolex on a Patek level does a disservice to what Rolex actually is which is outstanding in its own regard. Its not a criticism of Rolex. Rolex getting into Haute Horlogerie and it would lose a lot of their biggest supporters who don't want a HH piece.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Datejust is the better watch design and use wise. The Nautilus has its fan base based on rarity, brand name, history of hand finishing etc. I would choose a different watch from the Patek catalog if i was looking for a better hand finished watch.

fair point for sure, as its an entry level watch. For six figures+ you definitely get into some more complicated watches and probably better finishing. Then again you will be paying as much as some houses

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Frank McKay

Every one keeps referring to the level of “finishing and craftsmanship” on a Patek, that separates itself from Rolex. Can you provide details please? Where is this craftsmanship and finishing exactly? that is miles ahead of say a DD40?

Even if I were a millionaire I would never pay 50k for stainless steel watch.

Then how would anybody know you were a millionaire?

[Mephist]

Thanks for all the response. I was not trying to compare the brand Rolex to Patek. I know the brands differ a lot.

The comparison was with Datejust and Nautilus. Because the 5711/1A Nautilus have a very "simple" design compared to most other Pateks, it also only got a date function, no other complications and it is SS, just like the Datejust. Comparing it to any other Rolex would not work because they all got different uses, complications, design or material.

So what I got out of this thread so far. Is that the finishing and craftsmanship of a Nautilus with just Date, is much better then that of a Datejust. It also have a very limited production volume compared to a Datejust. And these three points mostly explains why it cost $20k more then a Datejust. However I am curious to know if most of those responding to this thread bases this on what they read on the internet or if they base this on their own experience with a Nautilus?

I see some says they base it on their own experience and it is very interesting to read.

And again this is not a Rolex vs Patek discussion, just a Nautilus vs Datejust comparison/discussion. I know Patek is known for complications Rolex probably will never ever make and I can easily see how the finishing and craftsmanship of the photo below is beyond anything Rolex have ever made and probably ever will. I have never tried or even seen a Nautilus in real life, so I will take you guys word for it that the finishing and craftsmanship is very noticeable better on the Nautilus. However it is hard to see this from just the pictures of the watches up against each other.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

I've owned both the 5711 and the 41mm Datejust.±Improbable as it may seem, I prefer the Datejust. Just as well made in real terms, better bracelet and a lot tougher.
It's too easy to get hooked on marketing and hype...the fact that something costs more doesn't prove much at all. The 5711 feels a more fragile watch and has a pretty poor clasp. Handsome yes, well-finished, yes, but better? Not to me. Of course , 'the market' says otherwise. If that is what matters, join the queue.

Exactly.

[RayShepherd]

The patek is a statement piece but the rolex is more reliable. I'd rather wear the Rolex on a daily then the patek on occasions

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

I've owned both the 5711 and the 41mm Datejust.±Improbable as it may seem, I prefer the Datejust. Just as well made in real terms, better bracelet and a lot tougher.
It's too easy to get hooked on marketing and hype...the fact that something costs more doesn't prove much at all. The 5711 feels a more fragile watch and has a pretty poor clasp. Handsome yes, well-finished, yes, but better? Not to me. Of course , 'the market' says otherwise. If that is what matters, join the queue.

its not hype as IMO thats a cop-out justification. Its like evaluating art, totally subjective. Who is a better artist, Rembrandt or the guy painting the dogs sitting at a poker table? Depends on if you like dogs playing poker i suppose. Both are legitimate art, both can be equally enjoyable for the owner, both will be loved and hated by people who come to visit and see it on the wall, however one is definitely a higher form of art but that doesnt mean you have to like it because of what it is. If you have both pieces of art, one looks great in a Den and one looks great in a formal dining room, but not reversed. There is room for both in the proper context.

[tom2517]

5711 is not a 50k watch. The whole sale price of 5711 is half of the MSRP and then Stern family takes a fat profit, and most of the rest goes to marketing. In reality, 5711 isn't made with a lot of money. Like someone already said, the money you are paying is for brand value, not the product itself. Same goes for Rolex.

A true connoisseur wouldn't consider Patek handmade watch either, it is made with machine tools which makes it looks like it's hand finished, there is a difference.

[Chester01]

Sorry, While I appreciate the craftsmanship of PP, their stying is not for me. For my lifestyle, Rolex is by far a more robust watch and can take daily wear and tear under any circumstance. Rolex was designed from the beginning as a sport watch, PP made dress watches and then came out with a couple of sport watches to diversify. If I needed a dress watch, I would look to Patek and Lange but never for a daily wearer.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its not hype as IMO thats a cop-out justification. Its like evaluating art, totally subjective. Who is a better artist, Rembrandt or the guy painting the dogs sitting at a poker table? Depends on if you like dogs playing poker i suppose. Both are legitimate art, both can be equally enjoyable for the owner, both will be loved and hated by people who come to visit and see it on the wall, however one is definitely a higher form of art but that doesnt mean you have to like it because of what it is. If you have both pieces of art, one looks great in a Den and one looks great in a formal dining room, but not reversed. There is room for both in the proper context.

To be honest, I prefer Nautilus to be a less popular watch model line, so that people who truly appreciate it will have an easier time acquiring it. I don't really care about market price since I'm buying for own use.

I wish I can just buy off that 5740 from the display shelf, at a 30% discount.