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Old 13 April 2017, 03:32 AM   #61
speedy_master1
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hmmmm�� correct me if I am ��wrong but, I see this as it is the OPs fault.
when you are buying a watch on the forum or on the internet for that matter, You first need to make sure 100% that you are protected by taking some small steps.
I for one always call the service center in this case Rolex and give them the serial number and they can run it for you and give you the history of it if its been service or not or in your case a fake serial.
2. I then make sure I get as much photo needed to make sure what I get is correct and legit.
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Old 13 April 2017, 03:37 AM   #62
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Well comparing photoshopped press images to real photos is not always useful.

The non-Rolex movement kind of gives it away in this case. Sad for the OP.

People on this site love to scream 'fake' with with any blurry cell phone photo. There's a thread on the general forum right now where a TT Sub that was called out as fake from some cell phone pics was verified authentic by a Rolex boutique.

Sometimes it's clear but with good fakes and bad photos it's oftentimes not.
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Old 13 April 2017, 11:48 AM   #63
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Any developments? Word from the seller?
yes ... he is really cooperative. I was able to find all the messages , MMS and the wire transfert copy. He is willing to refund my money when the watch is returned to him. Hope this end well.
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Old 13 April 2017, 01:14 PM   #64
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no i was right there when they opened it...Jesus Christ , why the hell would i have to lie about this. I will post those pics soon.
In the legal field we look for inconsistency and holes in a story...

You were right there when he opened it and confirmed it fake? But yet in the original post you say this?

"brought the watch to my jeweller and he took it and called me back a day later to tell me the watch is FAKE.." So he didn't confirm it on the spot as you said but a day later? Good luck on the "stand"
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Old 13 April 2017, 10:20 PM   #65
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In the legal field we look for inconsistency and holes in a story...

You were right there when he opened it and confirmed it fake? But yet in the original post you say this?

"brought the watch to my jeweller and he took it and called me back a day later to tell me the watch is FAKE.." So he didn't confirm it on the spot as you said but a day later? Good luck on the "stand"

Good catch.
But in the legal field, the response that can be expected is "yes, he called me back a day later to tell me it was fake but would need to open it to confirm, which he did when I arrived."

Bam!
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Old 15 April 2017, 05:30 AM   #66
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The warranty card should of given it away. An obvious fake name, and a five year olds handwriting.
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Old 15 April 2017, 06:15 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by iLLGT2 View Post
In the legal field we look for inconsistency and holes in a story...

You were right there when he opened it and confirmed it fake? But yet in the original post you say this?

"brought the watch to my jeweller and he took it and called me back a day later to tell me the watch is FAKE.." So he didn't confirm it on the spot as you said but a day later? Good luck on the "stand"
In the legal business we know witnesses are unreliable, and contradictions can be found in any story, even good stories. He'll be fine once his lawyer preps him.

If the seller is refunding the sale, it sounds like the issue is being resolved appropriately.
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Old 15 April 2017, 06:32 AM   #68
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I feel it is in the favor of the community to know who the seller is, regardless of if it's being made right.
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Old 15 April 2017, 06:58 AM   #69
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I feel it is in the favor of the community to know who the seller is, regardless of if it's being made right.
Totally agree.
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Old 15 April 2017, 07:02 AM   #70
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I feel it is in the favor of the community to know who the seller is, regardless of if it's being made right.
Agree. If a seller can't tell he is selling a fake, the community would be served to know he is a risk.
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Old 15 April 2017, 08:48 AM   #71
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I feel bad for both parties.... if indeed the seller didn't realize that he was selling a fake.....

Fingers crossed for a happy ending for OP.
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Old 15 April 2017, 09:54 AM   #72
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glad to hear seller is trying to make it right
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Old 15 April 2017, 11:31 AM   #73
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I've watched this thread from a distance... not wanting to get behind the momentum in either direction.

I'd like to see the original sales photos. Even if they're saved from the original thread and reposted here to protect the sellers identity. I realize that everyone is encouraging you to call out the seller... but I understand the OPs reluctance. He's in a very disadvantaged position and is relying on the seller to refund him. Not pissing him off seems like a logical move... as he can always call out the seller at any point in the reversal of the transaction.

The reason I'd like to see the original photos is I'd like to verify the watch has all the same parts that it had when it was sold. Others have been quick to point out times, or holes, when you might have been duped by a third party.

I like to believe the best in everyone... the watch is good on the front, with the exception of the insert and hands. Your DSSD insert is not good, and in fact, I think that if you had studied it better, you'd been able to call it out as a fake. But the dial is good. The Rolex warranty card has some printed text smudges from water. as if it were printed on an inkjet printer.

Anyway, if you wouldn't mind reposting the original sales photos. I'd hope you would have saved them to your local disk before/during/after the transaction as assurance along with taking screenshots of the watch for sale within the browser.
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Old 15 April 2017, 11:51 AM   #74
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I've watched this thread from a distance... not wanting to get behind the momentum in either direction.

I'd like to see the original sales photos. Even if they're saved from the original thread and reposted here to protect the sellers identity. I realize that everyone is encouraging you to call out the seller... but I understand the OPs reluctance. He's in a very disadvantaged position and is relying on the seller to refund him. Not pissing him off seems like a logical move... as he can always call out the seller at any point in the reversal of the transaction.

The reason I'd like to see the original photos is I'd like to verify the watch has all the same parts that it had when it was sold. Others have been quick to point out times, or holes, when you might have been duped by a third party.

I like to believe the best in everyone... the watch is good on the front, with the exception of the insert and hands. Your DSSD insert is not good, and in fact, I think that if you had studied it better, you'd been able to call it out as a fake. But the dial is good. The Rolex warranty card has some printed text smudges from water. as if it were printed on an inkjet printer.

Anyway, if you wouldn't mind reposting the original sales photos. I'd hope you would have saved them to your local disk before/during/after the transaction as assurance along with taking screenshots of the watch for sale within the browser.
Agree that the original sales pics should be shown after the seller has refunded, so we know if this is a bait and switch which is def not acceptable.
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Old 15 April 2017, 12:22 PM   #75
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I took an authentic Rolex I purchased from a member of this forum into a so called dealer who was inside of a fancy building with lots of security to ask if he wanted to buy it and he asked that I leave the watch he would let me know...well he returned the watch to me with a fake Rolex bracelet on it...i was young and dumb and was referred to the dealer by another dealer who also had a "storefront". I honestly am not sure which of the 2 robbed me but it happened and it was one dealers word against the other dealer.

so it can happen! just my 2 cents.
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Old 15 April 2017, 12:23 PM   #76
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Wow. Terrible situation to be in. As a repairman, I could never buy a Rolex unless I took the back off myself. Don't know how anyone can hand over that much money without seeing the item in person. Unless it's from a reputable dealer or something, it's a pretty risky move.
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Old 15 April 2017, 12:32 PM   #77
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Wow. Terrible situation to be in. As a repairman, I could never buy a Rolex unless I took the back off myself. Don't know how anyone can hand over that much money without seeing the item in person. Unless it's from a reputable dealer or something, it's a pretty risky move.
it's not as cut and dried as that. The 3135 clones make it a little more difficult to the untrained eye. And then there's the 3135 clones that have been modified with genuine parts that make it even more difficult.

I'm not trying to argue and I certainly see your point. But there are many excellent, first class sellers on this board. And if this seller is still on here and willing to refund the OP, I'd include him or her in that statement with prejudice.
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Old 15 April 2017, 01:15 PM   #78
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I'm curious to know how a trusted seller would verify whether a DSSD has a genuine movement within the watch, assuming it is received pre-owned, before selling it to the next person. Does anyone have a clue? I don't assume they would take the case back off, since they wouldn't have the proper equipment to pressure test it.


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Old 15 April 2017, 01:24 PM   #79
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hmmmm�� correct me if I am ��wrong but, I see this as it is the OPs fault.
when you are buying a watch on the forum or on the internet for that matter, You first need to make sure 100% that you are protected by taking some small steps.
I for one always call the service center in this case Rolex and give them the serial number and they can run it for you and give you the history of it if its been service or not or in your case a fake serial.
2. I then make sure I get as much photo needed to make sure what I get is correct and legit.
Neither of your suggestions does anything to prevent a fake watch from being sold. The watch can have a real serial number and if it's a superbly made fake then the photos will simply show you what you expect to see.
A trusted seller [or any seller for that matter] can also unintentionally sell fakes as well.
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Old 15 April 2017, 01:36 PM   #80
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Does anyone outside of a RSC (and do all of those) have the ability to properly pressure test a DSSD???


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Old 17 April 2017, 06:01 AM   #81
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Pardon my ignorance, how do you guys tell that's a fake?
Yeah often I really can't tell to be honest

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Does anyone outside of a RSC (and do all of those) have the ability to properly pressure test a DSSD???


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Would imagine not...

Anyways good if the seller gives back the cash, I wouldn't give his name if he makes it right, will be terrible for his rep and he could have been fooled as well, I almost got scammed a few times trying to sell watches but buying never, touching wood
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Old 17 April 2017, 08:33 AM   #82
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I had an similar experience a while ago. A friend from another city in my country who is a watch dealer like me, sent some photos of a deep sea. We agreed on the price and he shipped it to me. I was going to pay him after i receive and check the condition of the watch. Delivery arrived and i checked the watch but something was wrong with the watch. I couldn't be very sure so i took it to my friend who has a watch service. He opened the case and we saw it was a very nice fake rolex. Called and told him the issue. He was shocked. I returned the watch to him but he was unlucky to find the person who sold the watch to him.

The reason i'm telling you this story is, there are really nice fake watches out there and careless people even they know their jobs. This guy is one of the very well known watch dealers in here.

So, maybe he didn't know that he bought and sold a fake watch to you. Hope you guys find a solution but that is very unlucky that passed 3 years.

I also understand why you don't wanna give a name and this is the right thing in my opinion. If you do a mistake like selling a fake watch by not realising, you wouldn't like to be known with this experience in the market. People may think different. So you're helping him out at the moment, hope he solves this for you as a payback.
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Old 17 April 2017, 08:50 AM   #83
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Does anyone outside of a RSC (and do all of those) have the ability to properly pressure test a DSSD???


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My question exactly. How would a trusted seller verify that the movement on a DSSD is genuine if he/she does not open the case back...?


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Old 17 April 2017, 09:23 AM   #84
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My question exactly. How would a trusted seller verify that the movement on a DSSD is genuine if he/she does not open the case back...?


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I would never buy a watch that expensive without checking the movement either in tagged sales pics or as soon as I received it. I cannot imagine a seller not checking the movement, the one variable that will tell you with 99% certainty that it is a genuine watch.

As for breaking the sacred seal of the DSSD, I'd expect a normal person would probably not be going 3900 meters underwater, so I don't see the big deal about removing the case back of a DSSD to verify authenticity.

Every watch I've ever bought has come with the stipulation, "Yes it is water resistant to XXX meters but you should pressure test it before going in the water." That pressure test burden almost always lies on the buyer. A shop where I used to live had a 125 bar wet tester (1250 meters) which would likely suffice for a DSSD even in the most demanding situations. The deep sea aspect of the DSSD is more of a novelty and I doubt anyone wearing one is actually exploring shipwrecks by submarine on a regular basis. If you're going on a trip with James Cameron, fine, send it to RSC to get it pressure tested for the full amount.
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Old 17 April 2017, 11:46 AM   #85
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I would never buy a watch that expensive without checking the movement either in tagged sales pics or as soon as I received it. I cannot imagine a seller not checking the movement, the one variable that will tell you with 99% certainty that it is a genuine watch.

As for breaking the sacred seal of the DSSD, I'd expect a normal person would probably not be going 3900 meters underwater, so I don't see the big deal about removing the case back of a DSSD to verify authenticity.

Every watch I've ever bought has come with the stipulation, "Yes it is water resistant to XXX meters but you should pressure test it before going in the water." That pressure test burden almost always lies on the buyer. A shop where I used to live had a 125 bar wet tester (1250 meters) which would likely suffice for a DSSD even in the most demanding situations. The deep sea aspect of the DSSD is more of a novelty and I doubt anyone wearing one is actually exploring shipwrecks by submarine on a regular basis. If you're going on a trip with James Cameron, fine, send it to RSC to get it pressure tested for the full amount.
I would be very uncomfortable with every Tom, Dick, and Harry seller opening up watches. They're sellers, not watchmakers. What happens if they damage the threads or introduce foreign matter? Not to mention, the better fakes have convincing movements now.

The watch comes with a specific depth rating. If the seller has compromised that, I want to know up front so that I can discount the price.
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Old 17 April 2017, 01:24 PM   #86
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I would be very uncomfortable with every Tom, Dick, and Harry seller opening up watches. They're sellers, not watchmakers. What happens if they damage the threads or introduce foreign matter? Not to mention, the better fakes have convincing movements now.

The watch comes with a specific depth rating. If the seller has compromised that, I want to know up front so that I can discount the price.
By this logic you would need to discount price if the crown has ever been unscrewed too. I hear people all the time saying, "I don't want to "break" the seal." They think that some magical seal has been broken. A properly seated gasket(especially new or close to new) should have no problem sealing and resealing multiple times. The problems start when A. Someone doesn't correctly seat the gasket, B. The gasket cracks, breaks, dries out, etc., or C. Back isn't screwed on correctly or tight enough or gasket missing.

That said, I still would not want a watch knowing that untrained people were opening and closing it.

Foreign matter, fingerprints, or generally someone touching the movement in anyway screwing something up.
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Old 17 April 2017, 11:12 PM   #87
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I always read these threads with great interest. In this case it looks like a resolution between buyer and seller is in process and it will be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

I sit on the fence with respect to identifying the seller in this instance. On the one hand it looks like he is making things right and the argument goes why identify him and potentially impugn his reputation as he did the right thing. On the other hand, perhaps he should be given credit for "doing the right thing" and being identified as someone who can be trusted when things go sideways which could happen on any transaction for a number of reasons. But does his identity open up a can of worms with other buyers who have purchased from him and might wonder if their purchase is authentic and something that may have slipped past the seller due to no desire to deceive but simply a bad source of his. I think I may want to know the identity of a seller who accidentally let a bad watch slip through his hands if he is an active seller on this forum, the reasons behind it and the remedies being taken to stop this from happening again. Just my $0.02
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Old 18 April 2017, 01:31 AM   #88
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By this logic you would need to discount price if the crown has ever been unscrewed too. I hear people all the time saying, "I don't want to "break" the seal." They think that some magical seal has been broken. A properly seated gasket(especially new or close to new) should have no problem sealing and resealing multiple times. The problems start when A. Someone doesn't correctly seat the gasket, B. The gasket cracks, breaks, dries out, etc., or C. Back isn't screwed on correctly or tight enough or gasket missing.

That said, I still would not want a watch knowing that untrained people were opening and closing it.

Foreign matter, fingerprints, or generally someone touching the movement in anyway screwing something up.
Are you saying that Abdullah's argument is flawed but you agree with it entirely?
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Old 18 April 2017, 03:02 AM   #89
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Are you saying that Abdullah's argument is flawed but you agree with it entirely?
Seems that way I guess. In a controlled environment(a service center or watchmaker) I don't see why opening the back would warrant a price reduction or a scare. Some Joe Blow off the street, that's another story. Merely opening the watch does not ruin the sealing capabilities. That's why I mentioned the crown.
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Old 18 April 2017, 05:34 PM   #90
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As for breaking the sacred seal of the DSSD, I'd expect a normal person would probably not be going 3900 meters underwater, so I don't see the big deal about removing the case back of a DSSD to verify.
To me that misses the point of the watch. People enjoy the fact their watch can go to that depth, as an appreciation of the engineering on their wrist, not that their watch used to be able to go to that depth, but now they are not so sure.
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