1966 1601 back from RSC

[Claven2]

As an update to this thread, it turned out in getting ready to ship the bracelet to Rolliworks I discovered it had a 1980's era service clasp off an Oyster bracelet. So the bracelet itself, although genuine, was a bit of a franken and I didn't think it prudent to sink around $400 into it.

So I instead ordered a brand new complete service bracelet from my AD, a recently produced 62510H. I think it looks great on the watch and it feels considerably better made than the older folded bracelet.

I think I'm just going to wear this a bunch now as my go-to dress watch, just as it is, until it needs another service some day.

[Kevin.S]

The watch looks fantastic! , great post!

[wappinghigh]

I am learning heaps from threads like this and I thank you Sir/madam for the posts...I just can't get my head around why Rolex does this sort of refinishing "servicing" (IMO) including dial and bezel replacements. Your watch now no longer has it's original dial or that beautiful engine bezel.... And neither do you? = they have stolen them off you IMO...Also you have lost the tritium markers right..?? = no patina in the future.. something collectors like me will look for...
Now I know how RSC's operate (and thanks in particular for the paper copies)... To be honest with you, I wouldn't have done this.. I would have gone down the independant route (as someone else suggested)...spending the minimum to keep your old watch working.. and just wearing it "As is" for nostalgia sake (keeping it looking how it is), holding onto the $750 difference or whatever and putting it towards another watch... $750 could buy you a darn nice brand new Seiko 50 hr power reserve with hacking diver everyday wearer (for example)..Rolex IMO have stolen your property (the old parts) in my view (and should give them back...).. probably $500 plus worth of parts? It's because of good honest posts like this, newbies to Rolex like me (who have come from other brands) work out what to do and how to deal with the "Rolex Mafia" ... I appreciate the post very much. Enjoy the Rolex. Cheers

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by 1watch

I'm glad the OP is pleased with the outcome. I know it's all personal preference and reading the detail of the work performed in this thread compels me to share an alternate solution for anyone interested in vintage preservation. Unlike the policies of a RSC, you can have this type of restoration work done by an independent watchmaker and keep the original parts. If some components are unable to be restored, many reputable ones will replace them with period correct parts AND return all of your original parts.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

I am learning heaps from threads like this and I thank you Sir/madam for the posts...I just can't get my head around why Rolex does this sort of refinishing "servicing" (IMO) including dial and bezel replacements. Your watch now no longer has it's original dial or that beautiful engine bezel.... And neither do you? = they have stolen them off you IMO...Also you have lost the tritium markers right..?? = no patina in the future.. something collectors like me will look for...
Now I know how RSC's operate (and thanks in particular for the paper copies)... To be honest with you, I wouldn't have done this.. I would have gone down the independant route (as someone else suggested)...spending the minimum to keep your old watch working.. and just wearing it "As is" for nostalgia sake (keeping it looking how it is), holding onto the $750 difference or whatever and putting it towards another watch... $750 could buy you a darn nice brand new Seiko 50 hr power reserve with hacking diver everyday wearer (for example)..Rolex IMO have stolen your property (the old parts) in my view (and should give them back...).. probably $500 plus worth of parts? It's because of good honest posts like this, newbies to Rolex like me (who have come from other brands) work out what to do and how to deal with the "Rolex Mafia" ... I appreciate the post very much. Enjoy the Rolex. Cheers

Thank for your perspective, but this was not a collectible example of a datejust. It was a well loved example of a common model and dial DJ that was missing a couple tritium markers, corroded hands, scratches in the dial paint, and a good bit if case abuse. It is not an heirloom, I bought it on ebay for under market rate. It also had no box, no papers.

Don't believe the hype most people push here. There is nothing wrong with totally overhauling common models in bad condition to get a like new watch with features you might want that can't be had new anymore.

If I could get a new 36mm DJ with identical markers and a piepan dial, I would have gone that route. I was not interested in wearing a watch in relic condition either. Rolex didn't hoodwink me or steal any parts. They disposed of a dial that I might have got $50 for on ebay if lucky and I got to keep the old bracelet, which is being sold on ebay as we speak.

Is this route for everyone? No. But please do not suggest I was taken advantage of by Rolex. I'm a seasoned watch owner and sometimes collector. I knew what the deal was and wanted to do it despite the recent trend to want to own beat up examples from yester-year. Those are fine for the display box, but I don't wear ugly looking rolexes to work.

Ps: the watch is a 1601. At some point a previous owner got hoodwinked by a watchmaker who offered to put on a new bezel for him (I'm guessing here), and just like that a gold bezel went to the jeweler's scrap gold haul and a cheap steel bezel was installed. It was also pretty beat when I got the watch. A like new (used) engine turned bezel is around $70 on ebay. No big loss. There was definitely nothing like $500 in parts given to Rolex. More like $100-130 or so, not worth my trouble to deal with.

[Verdi]

Looks amazing! You did very well with this watch! I would have done the same....

It is like a nos vintage DJ now and I would love to have something like that

[SDREW22]

Looks great! Let's see the new lume!!

[jaisonline]

I hear ya. I recently sent a watch to Dallas and spoke with their reps for 4 biz days about getting my bezel returned. Their mgt only approved returning my bezel since it wasn’t made anymore and the replacement was a never version.

It is a real struggle and for RSCs, saying “no” is always easier than saying “yes”.

Originally Posted by Claven2

Should also mention, rolex confiscated the engine turned bezel and refused to return it. It was a real rolex bezel, but the toronto rsc advised any parts they replace or remove are forfeit. FWIW.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by SDREW22

Looks great! Let's see the new lume!!

Perhaps not the world's greatest photography, but here ya go :)

[SDREW22]

Fantastic. You made all the right choices IMO. Great watch.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by jaisonline

I hear ya. I recently sent a watch to Dallas and spoke with their reps for 4 biz days about getting my bezel returned. Their mgt only approved returning my bezel since it wasn’t made anymore and the replacement was a never version.

It is a real struggle and for RSCs, saying “no” is always easier than saying “yes”.

I didn't really try that hard, I asked, they said no, I moved on and didn;t give it a second thought. The bezel on the watch was a rather worn 1603 bezel that is easy to find and cheap. I also don't have a 1603 to put it on, so... ;)

[swaini3]

Enjoy.... Wear it in good health ;)

[wappinghigh]

Originally Posted by Claven2

Thank for your perspective, but this was not a collectible example of a datejust. It was a well loved example of a common model and dial DJ that was missing a couple tritium markers, corroded hands, scratches in the dial paint, and a good bit if case abuse. It is not an heirloom, I bought it on ebay for under market rate. It also had no box, no papers.

Don't believe the hype most people push here. There is nothing wrong with totally overhauling common models in bad condition to get a like new watch with features you might want that can't be had new anymore.

If I could get a new 36mm DJ with identical markers and a piepan dial, I would have gone that route. I was not interested in wearing a watch in relic condition either. Rolex didn't hoodwink me or steal any parts. They disposed of a dial that I might have got $50 for on ebay if lucky and I got to keep the old bracelet, which is being sold on ebay as we speak.

Is this route for everyone? No. But please do not suggest I was taken advantage of by Rolex. I'm a seasoned watch owner and sometimes collector. I knew what the deal was and wanted to do it despite the recent trend to want to own beat up examples from yester-year. Those are fine for the display box, but I don't wear ugly looking rolexes to work.

Ps: the watch is a 1601. At some point a previous owner got hoodwinked by a watchmaker who offered to put on a new bezel for him (I'm guessing here), and just like that a gold bezel went to the jeweler's scrap gold haul and a cheap steel bezel was installed. It was also pretty beat when I got the watch. A like new (used) engine turned bezel is around $70 on ebay. No big loss. There was definitely nothing like $500 in parts given to Rolex. More like $100-130 or so, not worth my trouble to deal with.

Ok cool. I’ve learnt even more! Thanks for being so informative and passing on all your expertise and story. Some watches are worth keeping vintage and others aren’t. Im starting to get it. It ain’t necessarily easy being a Rolex newbie. Impossible to buy a new SS at an AD, and vintage can be a nightmare as you point out. A lot of money at stake if one makes the wrong decision along the way - just declare it all to the next purchaser I guess. That’s why this forum is so amazing! Helpful people and posts like this! Cheers.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by wappinghigh

Ok cool. I’ve learnt even more! Thanks for being so informative and passing on all your expertise and story. Some watches are worth keeping vintage and others aren’t. Im starting to get it. It ain’t necessarily easy being a Rolex newbie. Impossible to buy a new SS at an AD, and vintage can be a nightmare as you point out. A lot of money at stake if one makes the wrong decision along the way - just declare it all to the next purchaser I guess. That’s why this forum is so amazing! Helpful people and posts like this! Cheers.

FWIW, if you are new to Rolex, I think you might want to re-think the view that you own a Rolex to safeguard its provenance for the next owner. These are not haute-horologie like a Patek, VC or Lange... they are a mass produced watch of decent quality with a large following. Nothing more, nothing less.

Buy and wear a Rolex for YOU. Don't expect to make money when you sell it, in fact, expect to lose some money over what you invest. If it works out otherwise, great. But it's generally won't. Buy the watch that makes you smile when you glance at it, that captures a look you want, or that wears well with your lifestyle. For many, that means maybe 2 watches (maybe). For many, it means one watch. For me, it means a great dress watch, a great sports watch, and other watches that come or go to keep life from getting boring.

Consider the cost of a watch. In this case, a vintage DJ:

- you have to buy it.
- You may have to replace some parts to get it to fit your mental image of what condition you want it to be in when you wear it.
- You will undoubtedly have to service it.

At this stage, you are close enough to the price of a new watch, that there had better be something about the vintage watch to attract you to it that you could not satisfy by buying new.

Now consider ANY watch, new or used. Everyone thinks about what they paid upfront - either retail or retail plus original fix-up for a vintage piece. That is not the true cost of ownership if you keep the watch over time. You have to regularly service the watch. On paper it might look like you make money, but factor in inflation, service costs, etc. and pretty quickly you see it often doesn't add up.

So all that to say, I don't care what the next guy thinks one day when I have to sell it or I die. The next guy will know it's not an as-born watch, or he won't. I won't care either way, and I'll enjoy the watch while I own it - hopefully for many years :)

[VintageRX]

Learned a lot from this thread and what you’ve gone through but I don’t think my DJ has enough meat left on the lugs to go for a polish. Plus I have most of the original parts still on this watch and I have the entire kit for it so I don’t want to take to much away form it’s collectibility. What do you think?

[Jinfu]

If you wanted to keep all old parts, i.e. bezel and dial hand, etc. Would rolex work on it, if you took it to an independent first, and removed the dial, bezel etc that you would like to keep. Then send the stripped down rolex, just the case and movement. Have them supply a new dial, bezel and hands. Or would they not do that? Then you get the service dial, and not have to fight with keeping your old parts. Just curious if anyone has done this.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by VintageRX

Learned a lot from this thread and what you’ve gone through but I don’t think my DJ has enough meat left on the lugs to go for a polish. Plus I have most of the original parts still on this watch and I have the entire kit for it so I don’t want to take to much away form it’s collectibility. What do you think?

If you send it to the rsc, they will tell you if they think they can refinish it without thinning the luvs too much. Depending on parts availability, I've even heard of them offering to replace the case body with a service part - if you are in to that. Not sure if they still have that model case or not, but possibly yes.

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Jinfu

If you wanted to keep all old parts, i.e. bezel and dial hand, etc. Would rolex work on it, if you took it to an independent first, and removed the dial, bezel etc that you would like to keep. Then send the stripped down rolex, just the case and movement. Have them supply a new dial, bezel and hands. Or would they not do that? Then you get the service dial, and not have to fight with keeping your old parts. Just curious if anyone has done this.

hard to say if they would be ok with working on a watch missing hands and dial. If it were me doing that, I'd buy the cheapest dial and hand set off ebay I could find and put them on before sending in.

[Paul7]

Originally Posted by Claven2

FWIW, if you are new to Rolex, I think you might want to re-think the view that you own a Rolex to safeguard its provenance for the next owner. These are not haute-horologie like a Patek, VC or Lange... they are a mass produced watch of decent quality with a large following. Nothing more, nothing less.

Buy and wear a Rolex for YOU. Don't expect to make money when you sell it, in fact, expect to lose some money over what you invest. If it works out otherwise, great. But it's generally won't. Buy the watch that makes you smile when you glance at it, that captures a look you want, or that wears well with your lifestyle. For many, that means maybe 2 watches (maybe). For many, it means one watch. For me, it means a great dress watch, a great sports watch, and other watches that come or go to keep life from getting boring.

Consider the cost of a watch. In this case, a vintage DJ:

- you have to buy it.
- You may have to replace some parts to get it to fit your mental image of what condition you want it to be in when you wear it.
- You will undoubtedly have to service it.

At this stage, you are close enough to the price of a new watch, that there had better be something about the vintage watch to attract you to it that you could not satisfy by buying new.

Now consider ANY watch, new or used. Everyone thinks about what they paid upfront - either retail or retail plus original fix-up for a vintage piece. That is not the true cost of ownership if you keep the watch over time. You have to regularly service the watch. On paper it might look like you make money, but factor in inflation, service costs, etc. and pretty quickly you see it often doesn't add up.

So all that to say, I don't care what the next guy thinks one day when I have to sell it or I die. The next guy will know it's not an as-born watch, or he won't. I won't care either way, and I'll enjoy the watch while I own it - hopefully for many years :)

Agreed on all, and you left out insurance cost. I think if you ever did sell you'd get more than you might think, it came out great. I assume those new lumes will last a long time unlike the originals?

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by Paul7

Agreed on all, and you left out insurance cost. I think if you ever did sell you'd get more than you might think, it came out great. I assume those new lumes will last a long time unlike the originals?

As far as I know, modern light-activated rolex lume is more durable and linger lasting than tritium or radium so I suspect yes.

[Nick9]

Super useful thread, hats off to Claven2 for posting.

I am a big fan of the 16XX series, and have a handful in my collection. Some of these have been modified over the years with different bezels and dials; for example I have one from the 1970s with a later 1970s dial.

I reckon that a "new look" was commonly offered to customers, in those days.

I love it that this watch was put back in original condition, and its something I'd myself consider under certain circumstances. For the most part, though, the choices that previous owners made are okay with me--although I have one watch that represents a particularly wide range of 16XX bits.

I will say that, for sure, I prefer the piepan shape.

[VintageRX]

Originally Posted by Claven2

As far as I know, modern light-activated rolex lume is more durable and linger lasting than tritium or radium so I suspect yes.

Thank you getting back to me. Since my last post I’ve thought about it once more and have contact rolliwokrs in LA. A simple polish to restore the “look” will run 250$ USD, 200$ for a bezel recut, and they also have a couple TT oval jubilee bracelets that will match my watch and those cost 1000$ USD.Their representative on Instagram quoted me a 90$ usd per hour if I want them to laser weld the case, I would say another 300$ for laser welding due to one of my lugs being thin.

The mental dilema I face now is, do I go ahead with the case overhaul and a new bracelet which will cost $1750 USD (approximation)/ $2300 CAD or simply sell the watch as is for around $4200-4500 USD/ $5500-$6000 CAD and add the potential service cost amount to buy a NOS/mint 16233 from the 90’s (aprox $6000 USD).

If it helps understand the context of my dilema, I’m was born in 99’ so I grew up with the 5 and later 6 digit references.

What would you suggest? Or what are your thoughts, maybe things I missed and should consider?

Thank you

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by VintageRX

Thank you getting back to me. Since my last post I’ve thought about it once more and have contact rolliwokrs in LA. A simple polish to restore the “look” will run 250$ USD, 200$ for a bezel recut, and they also have a couple TT oval jubilee bracelets that will match my watch and those cost 1000$ USD.Their representative on Instagram quoted me a 90$ usd per hour if I want them to laser weld the case, I would say another 300$ for laser welding due to one of my lugs being thin.

The mental dilema I face now is, do I go ahead with the case overhaul and a new bracelet which will cost $1750 USD (approximation)/ $2300 CAD or simply sell the watch as is for around $4200-4500 USD/ $5500-$6000 CAD and add the potential service cost amount to buy a NOS/mint 16233 from the 90’s (aprox $6000 USD).

If it helps understand the context of my dilema, I’m was born in 99’ so I grew up with the 5 and later 6 digit references.

What would you suggest? Or what are your thoughts, maybe things I missed and should consider?

Thank you

This is a very personal decision and it depends what you like. If you really like the watch or it has sentime tal value, have it restored. You can't get piepan watches anymore apart from vintage, so if you want that you know what you need to do.

If you prefer modern rolexes, go that route. Apart from a dial design, sapphire crystal and quick set date, there is no real difference between the 70's and 90's watches.

Obviously I prefer the older prepaid look, but you may not feel as i do.

[VintageRX]

Originally Posted by Claven2

This is a very personal decision and it depends what you like. If you really like the watch or it has sentime tal value, have it restored. You can't get piepan watches anymore apart from vintage, so if you want that you know what you need to do.

If you prefer modern rolexes, go that route. Apart from a dial design, sapphire crystal and quick set date, there is no real difference between the 70's and 90's watches.

Obviously I prefer the older prepaid look, but you may not feel as i do.

Thanks again for your reply. You are correct, I've been so spoiled by my modern OP Date that my 1601 just doesn't compare anymore. Im going to through it up on kiji and put the funds towards a more modern 16233. Cheers

[JCW1960]

May I ask what box reference number is attached to the 1601/1603 Datejust?

[Claven2]

Originally Posted by JCW1960

May I ask what box reference number is attached to the 1601/1603 Datejust?

More info would be needed. the serial number or the date inside the caseback would be needed to know which variant of box a watch shipped with. the 1601 and 1603 were made for many years with many watch boxes.

[emersm]

I really enjoyed reading this thread. The watch is beautiful, you did a dynamite job!

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Looks amazing! You did very well with this watch! I would have done the same....

It is like a nos vintage DJ now and I would love to have something like that

x2

This is something I would like to do one day. Revive a classic watch and wear the heck out of it.

[Claven2]

Thanks guys, it's still firmly entrenched in my rolex rotation :)

[lhendrickson]

Originally Posted by Claven2

If you prefer modern rolexes, go that route. Apart from a dial design, sapphire crystal and quick set date, there is no real difference between the 70's and 90's watches.

Great restoration, Claven2! I love it. Another option is to snag a pie pan from 1972 or after when the 1575 calibre began to have quickset.