Sea Dweller 1665

[Token74]

Hi all

I don’t know very much about vintage Rolex and would welcome some education! I have been on the lookout for a Submariner 5513 for a while now, but during my search I have stumbled across a 1967 Sea Dweller 1665 which has got my attention. I’m a big fan of the Sea Dweller, my first Rolex being a 16600 and for the last five years I have enjoyed ownership of a 116600, so it might make sense to add a vintage SD rather than a Submariner.

One of the reasons I had been looking for a 5513 rather than a 1665 was that I will want to wear the vintage on a NATO strap rather than on the bracelet, a nod to the Milsub which is my ultimate (and unobtainable!) Rolex. I want it to be very much a fly-under-the-radar watch when I wear it, so very happy for it to be somewhat battered! The reason NATO strap makes a difference is that on my quite small wrist, I found the 16600 sat up too high on a NATO, and didn’t really work, hence why I thought the 5513 would be a better option.

Here comes the unexpected (for me anyway) twist. The 1665 that I’ve spotted (and it’s a seller who is friends with a good friend of mine, which makes it appealing) is advertised as being a ‘Very rare Thin Case Model’.

So, I have a few questions for the experts here...

1. What is the history of the Thin Case Model and is it rare?
2. It is advertised as having a Service Dial (original dial would have been double red apparently), what impact does that have on value?

I can send a link to the watch via DM if anyone is up for a having a quick look to see if it is well priced.

Keen to learn.

Cheers.

[athom]

Thin case 1665 has a little production (1.9 to 2.2 mil). If a double red model has a service dial, the value decreases from around 50% I’d say. Here are more information : http://www.drsd.com/ and please search a bit more in this forum and on internet too.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by athom

Thin case 1665 has a little production (1.9 to 2.2 mil). If a double red model has a service dial, the value decreases from around 50% I’d say. Here are more information : http://www.drsd.com/ and please search a bit more in this forum and on internet too.

Thanks. I have done a load of research and continue to do so. It’s all quite overwhelming for someone that is new to vintage.

On the 1665, I have seen reference to seven dials all with the red markings, but any advice as to how to date a service dial without the red markings?



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[ianmcg]

Lot's of 1.7m thin cases too but they came after the 2.2s and many with Mk3 dials. It's as if they found a load of older thin cases and used them up.


ian

[subx]

if you are new to vintage I would stay away from references where lots of knowledge needs to be had BEFORe making any purchase ...
this is a wise advice , trust me on this.

[ianmcg]

If I remember correctly from a similar discussion years ago there are thin cases up 2.6m and keep in mind that a well (or should that be badly!) polished thick case looks like a thin case. So I wouldn't pay a premium for one (unless it had a Mk2 dial in it).

Ian

[ianmcg]

Originally Posted by Token74

Thanks. I have done a load of research and continue to do so. It’s all quite overwhelming for someone that is new to vintage.

On the 1665, I have seen reference to seven dials all with the red markings, but any advice as to how to date a service dial without the red markings?



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At some point it's going to be easier to post a picture and a number and you'll get 20 opinions on what it is and whether it's worth it.

Ian

[Token74]

Originally Posted by ianmcg

At some point it's going to be easier to post a picture and a number and you'll get 20 opinions on what it is and whether it's worth it.



Ian

Fair point! Will do it now...


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[Token74]

This is the watch that has sparked my interest...advertised at £23k




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[subx]

move on, in a hurry, and take my advice above ...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Token74

This is the watch that has sparked my interest...advertised at £23k




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That watch is a wreck. I'd pass in a heartbeat, at any price. In vintage, it's virtually all about the dial. Look at that dial. 'Nuff said.

[athom]

Originally Posted by rom

if you are new to vintage I would stay away from references where lots of knowledge needs to be had BEFORe making any purchase ...
this is a wise advice , trust me on this.

I would follow rom advices, stay away from watches you don't have any clue about or pay a premium price by a famous dealer (after having checked every details with pro on this forum...).

[watchlovr]

That's not an attractive watch, surely you must realise that?

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by rom

if you are new to vintage I would stay away from references where lots of knowledge needs to be had BEFORe making any purchase ...
this is a wise advice , trust me on this.

Listen very carefully... he's only saying this once!

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by rom

move on, in a hurry, and take my advice above ...

Well... twice then

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by swish77

That watch is a wreck. I'd pass in a heartbeat, at any price. In vintage, it's virtually all about the dial. Look at that dial. 'Nuff said.

Vincent, this how a decent "Great White" SD dial ought to look like. Or better...

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Filipão

Well... twice then

I'll say it three times for effect.

Please don't jump into this (and that 1665 you posted is a wreck). There are dozens, if not hundreds, of people on this forum who wish they had heeded the advice of experts and not impatiently bought the first vintage piece that caught their eye. Or, even the second or third! Put some serious time into learning about these, and ask a lot of questions. And, finally, going after a "good deal" usually....OK, almost always...means that the watch has issues and will be a nightmare selling it when you realize you've made a mistake.

[Token74]

First things first, I realise that I’m a massive minority but I really like the beat-up look!

But...and it’s a big BUT...I am not an asKhole...when I ask for advice I tend to take it! And the advice is clear, don’t do it!! So I won’t...

It has however sparked an interest and I’ve spent the day researching dials, case-backs, history etc.

Today formally marks the start of my search for a vintage, but rather than looking at watches, I shall instead spend my time researching with a view to deciding exactly what I’m looking for before I do anything else, and then kicking off the actual search at some point next year, by which time hopefully I will have some knowledge!

Thanks for the advice, appreciated.


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[SunTzu]

Beat up look? It looks more like poop is on the lume plots. And the hands?

That's not patina.

[subx]

Originally Posted by Token74

First things first, I realise that I’m a massive minority but I really like the beat-up look!

But...and it’s a big BUT...I am not an asKhole...when I ask for advice I tend to take it! And the advice is clear, don’t do it!! So I won’t...

It has however sparked an interest and I’ve spent the day researching dials, case-backs, history etc.

Today formally marks the start of my search for a vintage, but rather than looking at watches, I shall instead spend my time researching with a view to deciding exactly what I’m looking for before I do anything else, and then kicking off the actual search at some point next year, by which time hopefully I will have some knowledge!

Thanks for the advice, appreciated.


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look : - yes here I go again for the 4th time for those that follow lol -

This one is not ' just beat up look' , it's plain wrong on several levels that I don't like to share on public forums where fakers and tinkerers like to read but please heed this advice: if you love the 1665, read EVERYTHING on this forum that says ' 1665' in the subject, AND the http://www.drsd.com/ all of it.
THEN... you will know about 25% about what you should.
then next time you see a sexy ' beat up ' 1665 , Post it here, and we WILL help you confirm,

but you HAVE to realise : the 1665 and the 1680 red are two of the most lucrative easy flips of fakers and tinkerers in the entire world ! you NEED to know a lot about them BEFORE you buy one, there are more shady ones than honest ones. ( I'm not exagerating)
, the one you posted is HORRENDOUS.

=> You may hate me as someone ' trying to slow you down from happiness' .
but in the end you will realise my wisdom :)

rom

[Token74]

Originally Posted by rom

look : - yes here I go again for the 4th time for those that follow lol -

This one is not ' just beat up look' , it's plain wrong on several levels that I don't like to share on public forums where fakers and tinkerers like to read but please heed this advice: if you love the 1665, read EVERYTHING on this forum that says ' 1665' in the subject, AND the http://www.drsd.com/ all of it.
THEN... you will know about 25% about what you should.
then next time you see a sexy ' beat up ' 1665 , Post it here, and we WILL help you confirm,

but you HAVE to realise : the 1665 and the 1680 red are two of the most lucrative easy flips of fakers and tinkerers in the entire world ! you NEED to know a lot about them BEFORE you buy one, there are more shady ones than honest ones. ( I'm not exagerating)
, the one you posted is HORRENDOUS.

=> You may hate me as someone ' trying to slow you down from happiness' .
but in the end you will realise my wisdom :)

rom

Don’t hate you at all, quite the opposite, appreciate your advice and will absolutely be following that advice!


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[rootbeer7]

I owned a lovely and honest 1665 Great White. What you have shown is a badly polished case and a ruined dial; hugely overpriced as well.
I’ve seen a couple in infinitely better condition for less here in the UK.
A true 1665 thin case is a rare piece, particularly with what I believe should be an almost brown faded dial (happy to be corrected on that).

[ILuvSubs]

The thin case 1665 is indeed quite rare and carries a premium over your normal 1665 case.

One way to be sure you're getting what you're paying for is to buy from well known trusted vintage Rolex dealers. You'll pay market price, but you'll also get the peace of mind of authenticity, good reputation and client service, and dealers who are part of the vintage Rolex collecting community.

Just to name a few - in the UK, Mike Wood (also a TRF member who runs the Old Watch Shop), in the US, Andrew Shear (ShearTime) and Jacek Kozubek (also a TRF member who runs HQ Milton). Others can chime in.

I've bought from Jacek a few times now and would recommend him.

[Token74]

Originally Posted by ILuvSubs

The thin case 1665 is indeed quite rare and carries a premium over your normal 1665 case.

One way to be sure you're getting what you're paying for is to buy from well known trusted vintage Rolex dealers. You'll pay market price, but you'll also get the peace of mind of authenticity, good reputation and client service, and dealers who are part of the vintage Rolex collecting community.

Just to name a few - in the UK, Mike Wood (also a TRF member who runs the Old Watch Shop), in the US, Andrew Shear (ShearTime) and Jacek Kozubek (also a TRF member who runs HQ Milton). Others can chime in.

I've bought from Jacek a few times now and would recommend him.

Thanks, much appreciated. Heard of Mike, big collector of Milsubs if I remember right?


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[Woody]

Originally Posted by Token74

Thanks, much appreciated. Heard of Mike, big collector of Milsubs if I remember right?


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Yes he is and a top guy to deal with