The Crown speaks on counterfeits...

[djgallo]

Some have mentioned why doesn’t Rolex target others like Artisans de Genève

Here is a good reason why Rolex isn’t targeting Artisan’s de Geneve see their disclaimer (taken from their website) below:

Artisans de Genève SA provides on demand customization services for private customers, for their private use, exclusively. Artisans de Genève SA is an independent company and is not sponsored by, endorsed, associated with and/or affiliated with Rolex S.A., Audemars Piguet SA, Cartier SA, or any other original brand manufacturers in any way, and operates in a completely unofficial capacity. Artisans de Genève SA does not manufacture or sell watches. A customized or modified watch is not intended for resell. Artisans de Genève SA doesn’t produce in advance and doesn’t have any stock. Artisans de Geneve SA works only with private customers and doesn’t work with any shop or reseller. Rolex, Daytona, are all registered trademarks of the Rolex Corporation (Rolex USA, Rolex S.A). To buy a new Rolex watch, please visit rolex.com for a list of authorized dealers near you. Any mention of trademarked names or other marks is for purpose of reference only.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by djgallo

Some have mentioned why doesn’t Rolex target others like Artisans de Genève

Here is a good reason why Rolex isn’t targeting Artisan’s de Geneve see their disclaimer (taken from their website) below:

Artisans de Genève SA provides on demand customization services for private customers, for their private use, exclusively. Artisans de Genève SA is an independent company and is not sponsored by, endorsed, associated with and/or affiliated with Rolex S.A., Audemars Piguet SA, Cartier SA, or any other original brand manufacturers in any way, and operates in a completely unofficial capacity. Artisans de Genève SA does not manufacture or sell watches. A customized or modified watch is not intended for resell. Artisans de Genève SA doesn’t produce in advance and doesn’t have any stock. Artisans de Geneve SA works only with private customers and doesn’t work with any shop or reseller. Rolex, Daytona, are all registered trademarks of the Rolex Corporation (Rolex USA, Rolex S.A). To buy a new Rolex watch, please visit rolex.com for a list of authorized dealers near you. Any mention of trademarked names or other marks is for purpose of reference only.

Excellent point, which brings us back to the first sale doctrine, or similar protections in other countries. An owner of a legally purchased watch can do whatever he or she wants with it. A company that provides services to such owners is not infringing on Rolex's trademark or other IP protections, and is not creating a watch for resale where Rolex's definition of "counterfeit" (whether right or wrong), or the harms associated with it, come into play.

[Alan111]

Interesting topic. I think Rolex is out of line here, but they have unlimited resources to pursue this company into bankruptcy thereby setting a precedent to use while going after other customization houses.

[MILGAUSS88]

There is a similar situation with Hamilton Watch co sueing Vortic.
Vortic is recasing old Hamilton pocket watches.

I was discussing this with another watch guy.
We both agreed that Hamilton really did not have any case. ( No pun intended.)

His thought was it didn't matter, Hamilton would keep them tied up in court and paying lawyers to defend themselves until it was not profitable for Vortic to recase there movements.

All these modified watch companies are miniscule in comparison to the Rolex company.
I am pretty sure that is what Rolex will do.
You never hear of people getting arrested for saling modified Rolex watches as long as the company is paying proper taxes and duties. ( I have heard of an arrest were a guy was bringing in modified watches from Brazil without paying the duties for the watch, and Rolex figured that out.)

If the person or company is selling a full replica of a Rolex, then they are commiting a crime.

[blada4life]

Originally Posted by djgallo

Some have mentioned why doesn’t Rolex target others like Artisans de Genève



Here is a good reason why Rolex isn’t targeting Artisan’s de Geneve see their disclaimer (taken from their website) below:



Artisans de Genève SA provides on demand customization services for private customers, for their private use, exclusively. Artisans de Genève SA is an independent company and is not sponsored by, endorsed, associated with and/or affiliated with Rolex S.A., Audemars Piguet SA, Cartier SA, or any other original brand manufacturers in any way, and operates in a completely unofficial capacity. Artisans de Genève SA does not manufacture or sell watches. A customized or modified watch is not intended for resell. Artisans de Genève SA doesn’t produce in advance and doesn’t have any stock. Artisans de Geneve SA works only with private customers and doesn’t work with any shop or reseller. Rolex, Daytona, are all registered trademarks of the Rolex Corporation (Rolex USA, Rolex S.A). To buy a new Rolex watch, please visit rolex.com for a list of authorized dealers near you. Any mention of trademarked names or other marks is for purpose of reference only.

Are you saying that the disclaimer gives them protection? Don’t think so. You are right about their customization services but I think you are ignoring the other side of their business which is them customizing Daytona’s etc and selling between 1-50 pieces at very high prices. I personally think Rolex isn’t going after them because watches are high quality, expensive and look good. They’re not hurting the brand as much as a colorful old datejust can.


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[djgallo]

Originally Posted by blada4life

Are you saying that the disclaimer gives them protection? Don’t think so. You are right about their customization services but I think you are ignoring the other side of their business which is them customizing Daytona’s etc and selling between 1-50 pieces at very high prices. I personally think Rolex isn’t going after them because watches are high quality, expensive and look good. They’re not hurting the brand as much as a colorful old datejust can.


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I’m not saying the disclaimer gives them absolute protection. So far, it looks like their stated business model is not yet...tempting Rolex to confront them.

For all we know, they may have some agreement with Rolex that this kind of service as performed is acceptable, and as you rightly mentioned, ’ the high standard of workmanship’  may play a part of the overall scénario.

Also, importantly they have stated, they are selling modification services for private individuals..and that they are Not selling watches

I have never used their services, but it sounds to me that if you want to get them to customize a watch, the customer will be required to purchase the watch from Rolex or second hand in the open watch market first... and then they will customize it for you. Under this scénario I really don’t see a problem for them.

[DeeTee]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but around six months ago a Artisan De Geneve Barrichelo or Montoya went to Sotheby/Christies auction and Rolex lawyers pulled it from bidding and confiscated the watch.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by DeeTee

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but around six months ago a Artisan De Geneve Barrichelo or Montoya went to Sotheby/Christies auction and Rolex lawyers pulled it from bidding and confiscated the watch.

Rolex confiscated a watch that did not belong to them? Isn't that theft?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Rolex confiscated a watch that did not belong to them? Isn't that theft?

Yes.

In my opinion.

Or bullying.

Whichever.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Rolex confiscated a watch that did not belong to them? Isn't that theft?

Not sure how that could happen.

Is there info somewhere on that.

[erhein]

Originally Posted by djgallo

Some have mentioned why doesn’t Rolex target others like Artisans de Genève Artisans de Genève SA provides on demand customization services for private customers, for their private use, exclusively. Artisans de Genève SA is an independent company and is not sponsored by, endorsed, associated with and/or affiliated with Rolex S.A., Audemars Piguet SA, Cartier SA, or any other original brand manufacturers in any way, and operates in a completely unofficial capacity. Artisans de Genève SA does not manufacture or sell watches. A customized or modified watch is not intended for resell. Artisans de Genève SA doesn’t produce in advance and doesn’t have any stock. Artisans de Geneve SA works only with private customers and doesn’t work with any shop or reseller. Rolex, Daytona, are all registered trademarks of the Rolex Corporation (Rolex USA, Rolex S.A). To buy a new Rolex watch, please visit rolex.com for a list of authorized dealers near you. Any mention of trademarked names or other marks is for purpose of reference only.

Not saying right or wrong, but it seems to me that there's a fundamental difference between a company that buys up Rolex watches, "customizes" them and then sells them to the public and a company that takes a private owner's watch, at the owner's request, and "customizes" it. Nevertheless, I think Rolex will have a very hard time proving that laCalifornienne's watches are counterfeit under the legal definition of counterfeit.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by djgallo

I’m not saying the disclaimer gives them absolute protection. So far, it looks like their stated business model is not yet...tempting Rolex to confront them.

For all we know, they may have some agreement with Rolex that this kind of service as performed is acceptable, and as you rightly mentioned, ’ the high standard of workmanship’  may play a part of the overall scénario.

Also, importantly they have stated, they are selling modification services for private individuals..and that they are Not selling watches

I have never used their services, but it sounds to me that if you want to get them to customize a watch, the customer will be required to purchase the watch from Rolex or second hand in the open watch market first... and then they will customize it for you. Under this scénario I really don’t see a problem for them.

But that's not true in their case, is it? They have modified Rolex models for sale that are produced by them and not just specifically asked for on a customization basis.

[nda]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I don't think it has to do with "owning" a sold watch, it has to do with selling and marketing a Rolex that is no longer a copyrighted Rolex.

I think a person can do it but not a company. You can mod your own watch and sell it on ebay all day long but a company buying old Rolexes, modding them and selling them as a Rolex may just be copyright infringement. A company has a right to their intellectual property.

Don't know how they let Bamford get away with it.

Should be interesting. I'm not a fan of people stealing intellectual property rights so I'll cheer for Rolex on this one.

I think this is exactly the point. Mod away all day long - but don't claim it's a Rolex with all the brand collateral that comes with it.

I think Rolls Royce would be upset if someone modified their cars and a garage was then selling them as RR's.

[ecdc]

Originally Posted by nda

I think this is exactly the point. Mod away all day long - but don't claim it's a Rolex with all the brand collateral that comes with it.

I think Rolls Royce would be upset if someone modified their cars and a garage was then selling them as RR's.

You mean like this? :)

59844912_10219245425269675_6820423605239676928_o.jpg

[nda]

Originally Posted by ecdc

You mean like this? :)

Attachment 1088637

I am not sure Mansory cars have a RR warranty.....nor whether there has been an agreement between the two companies. But I take your point. :)