May I get comments on this 5513 please

[ADINVA]

Hi All,

First of all, a big thank you for all who takes the time to read this thread and provide me with comments.

In my quest for a vintage sub, I come across a 5513 that I greatly need help to assess if this is a genuine serif 5513.

SN is 234xxxxx
93150 bracelet
580 end links
Dial: Serif

My questions are:
1. Is this an honest piece? Genuine 5513?
2. Which MK is this Serif 5513? Is this period correct with the SN?
3. Is the patina on the dial and hands genuine ?
4. Is the insert genuine and period correct? Bezel is genuine too?

Many thanks in advance.

[ADINVA]

I have seen this Serif dial but it does not appear like a MK 1 dial. The "P" in Perpetual does not align or flush with the "L" in Rolex above.

The numbers in the insert, esp "40", do not have the usual serif. Is this insert genuine or aftermarket?

Any comments, suggestions or advices are greatly appreciated.

[Dan S]

The insert doesn't appear to be original IMO. I'm not seeing any problems with the dial at first glance.

[Mark020]

Pics are a bit weird but I think it is legit. Insert probably not

[antrolexsub]

Hands are fake also. Dial is a real serif dial but you need to check that lume, pictures are too poor to see if lume is original.

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Hands are fake also. Dial is a real serif dial but you need to check that lume, pictures are too poor to see if lume is original.

Oh dear. This does not look good if the hands are fake. Many thanks for pointing this out to me.

[mjolnir2thor]

Have a question for the senior members… if you have a vintage watch that has been serviced over the years, wouldn’t it be normal/expected for the hands to be replaced or re-lumed? I wouldn suspect the same holds true for the crown no?

@ADinva - really comes down to what your are looking for in my humble opinion. If you are looking for an investment piece, then you are on a mission to find an untouched original or a timepiece that is close as original as possible. However, if you enjoy the design, style, etc. of a 5513 for wear, then in my mind the hands are not as relevant from my perspective. Of course, the condition, originality, etc. also equates to more of a premium for the watch.

Good luck with your quest into 5513 land.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by mjolnir2thor

Have a question for the senior members… if you have a vintage watch that has been serviced over the years, wouldn’t it be normal/expected for the hands to be replaced or re-lumed? I wouldn suspect the same holds true for the crown no?

Many things may be normal/expected, and at the same time not desirable for collectors. In fact, the very fact that so many watches have replacement parts is part of what makes watches that are original/correct so desirable. TBH, original hands are pretty important to many collectors, they are not really expendable items like crowns.

[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Many things may be normal/expected, and at the same time not desirable for collectors. In fact, the very fact that so many watches have replacement parts is part of what makes watches that are original/correct so desirable. TBH, original hands are pretty important to many collectors, they are not really expendable items like crowns.

Interesting... why are the crowns thought of as expendable versus the re-lume on the hands? I guess it goes back to certain key factors for a collector versus a "wearer." I think I fall into the wearer class since I would want to wear it as (or almost as) a daily. I have no issues with re-lumed hands as long as they were the correct hands.

Thanks Dan!

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by mjolnir2thor

Have a question for the senior members… if you have a vintage watch that has been serviced over the years, wouldn’t it be normal/expected for the hands to be replaced or re-lumed? I wouldn suspect the same holds true for the crown no?

@ADinva - really comes down to what your are looking for in my humble opinion. If you are looking for an investment piece, then you are on a mission to find an untouched original or a timepiece that is close as original as possible. However, if you enjoy the design, style, etc. of a 5513 for wear, then in my mind the hands are not as relevant from my perspective. Of course, the condition, originality, etc. also equates to more of a premium for the watch.

Good luck with your quest into 5513 land.

Hello. Thanks for your comments. Personally, I believe strongly in buying what I can afford. My budget limits me from buying a prime piece. For example, i cannot afford a full set vintage piece or one that was unpolished. The premium on those would be too high for me. I do not mind a polished case, as long as it is not overly done, at a price that I can afford and enjoy.

That said, I don't want to overpay for a Franken piece. If the hands are original to 5513 and resumed but price appropriately, I think I am ok with it as long as the price reflects that.

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Many things may be normal/expected, and at the same time not desirable for collectors. In fact, the very fact that so many watches have replacement parts is part of what makes watches that are original/correct so desirable. TBH, original hands are pretty important to many collectors, they are not really expendable items like crowns.

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your advice. I agree that since the hands are inside the watch, theoretically it should not be subject to wear and tear. Having original hands, dial and case is like keeping the body intact.

Trust you are having a wonderful weekend.

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by ADINVA

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your advice. I agree that since the hands are inside the watch, theoretically it should not be subject to wear and tear. Having original hands, dial and case is like keeping the body intact.

You'd have different hues, greener hands, believe me.

My 5513 had service hands and it was noticeable.

Lousy pic (sorry) shows before and now.

If T dial you've got have T hands too.

[springer]

Repaired hands - call them what you will, such as relumed, colored, painted, repaired etc - are common in 30, 40, 50 and older models. You may also find vintage watches with replaced hands, many which are not tritium but luminova and offer a poor match to dial marker patina.

If one is looking to replace a set of damaged or mismatched hands, there is a very finite number of original tritium hands available for sale in the secondary market. Additionally, if if someone is fortunate enough to find a set of original tritium hands, they would be very, very fortunate to find a set that matches their dial markers.

For anyone that has been around the vintage market for a while, finding a watch with original hands is a bonus, especially if they aren't damaged with missing tritium, discolored tritium, or unsightly corrosion. While there are some collectors that do not mind adding a vintage piece to their collection with "hand issues," most collectors prefer a watch without issues and is era correct . A nice vintage watch that is correct in all aspects except for hand issues is an easy fix.

Most collectors do not realize how fragile vintage tritium hands really are and how easy it is for the tritium to be damaged or completely fall out. When this happens, you are left with a couple choices, try an source an original set or repair the hands by "reluming" them.

Many collectors have accepted relumed hands and as time progresses, relumed hands will be the norm due to the scarcity of replacement tritium hands.

Tritium lume was never made to last forever - and it won't. The difference in value between original hands vs relumed hands is minimal. Just as I wouldn't "throw out the baby with the bath water," I wouldn't pass on an otherwise nice example of a vintage watch with relumed hands. The choice is yours.

[mjolnir2thor]

Originally Posted by springer

Repaired hands - call them what you will, such as relumed, colored, painted, repaired etc - are common in 30, 40, 50 and older models. You may also find vintage watches with replaced hands, many which are not tritium but luminova and offer a poor match to dial marker patina.

If one is looking to replace a set of damaged or mismatched hands, there is a very finite number of original tritium hands available for sale in the secondary market. Additionally, if if someone is fortunate enough to find a set of original tritium hands, they would be very, very fortunate to find a set that matches their dial markers.

For anyone that has been around the vintage market for a while, finding a watch with original hands is a bonus, especially if they aren't damaged with missing tritium, discolored tritium, or unsightly corrosion. While there are some collectors that do not mind adding a vintage piece to their collection with "hand issues," most collectors prefer a watch without issues and is era correct . A nice vintage watch that is correct in all aspects except for hand issues is an easy fix.

Most collectors do not realize how fragile vintage tritium hands really are and how easy it is for the tritium to be damaged or completely fall out. When this happens, you are left with a couple choices, try an source an original set or repair the hands by "reluming" them.

Many collectors have accepted relumed hands and as time progresses, relumed hands will be the norm due to the scarcity of replacement tritium hands.

Tritium lume was never made to last forever - and it won't. The difference in value between original hands vs relumed hands is minimal. Just as I wouldn't "throw out the baby with the bath water," I wouldn't pass on an otherwise nice example of a vintage watch with relumed hands. The choice is yours.

I'm not a long time vintage watch person (in fact a newbie), but interestingly enough, my thoughts are evolving into the train of thought you capture in your post.

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by springer

Repaired hands - call them what you will, such as relumed, colored, painted, repaired etc - are common in 30, 40, 50 and older models. You may also find vintage watches with replaced hands, many which are not tritium but luminova and offer a poor match to dial marker patina.

If one is looking to replace a set of damaged or mismatched hands, there is a very finite number of original tritium hands available for sale in the secondary market. Additionally, if if someone is fortunate enough to find a set of original tritium hands, they would be very, very fortunate to find a set that matches their dial markers.

For anyone that has been around the vintage market for a while, finding a watch with original hands is a bonus, especially if they aren't damaged with missing tritium, discolored tritium, or unsightly corrosion. While there are some collectors that do not mind adding a vintage piece to their collection with "hand issues," most collectors prefer a watch without issues and is era correct . A nice vintage watch that is correct in all aspects except for hand issues is an easy fix.

Most collectors do not realize how fragile vintage tritium hands really are and how easy it is for the tritium to be damaged or completely fall out. When this happens, you are left with a couple choices, try an source an original set or repair the hands by "reluming" them.

Many collectors have accepted relumed hands and as time progresses, relumed hands will be the norm due to the scarcity of replacement tritium hands.

Tritium lume was never made to last forever - and it won't. The difference in value between original hands vs relumed hands is minimal. Just as I wouldn't "throw out the baby with the bath water," I wouldn't pass on an otherwise nice example of a vintage watch with relumed hands. The choice is yours.

Thanks Springer. Like everyone here, we all appreciate your views and guidance. Words of wisdom and a true sharing of your undisputed experience. We all benefit tremendously from your insights.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by ADINVA

Hi Dan,
Thanks for your advice. I agree that since the hands are inside the watch, theoretically it should not be subject to wear and tear. Having original hands, dial and case is like keeping the body intact.

Trust you are having a wonderful weekend.

There are some options these days for repairing tritium hands, which might be useful if you want the hands to keep the original style.
Watchmakers can extract the tritium/paint from large numbers of old hands using a variety of solvents.
They can then relume your watch hands with tritium and match the color to your dial lume.
Pretty cool.