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Old 12 February 2020, 12:23 AM   #1
ponycar350
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genomicstime STAY FAR AWAY FROM ORIN MCCORMICK

genomicstime IS ONE OF THE WORST TRF MEMBERS I HAVE ENCOUNTERED IN MY LIFE. DO BUSINESS WITH CAUTION. ORIN McCormick in Winter Park Florida (352 area code) filed a paypal not as described case 6 months after purchase. There were no emails or calls regarding any issues and the watch is under warranty. We have called and email this L))SER without any responses. Please keep in mind his profile posts which showed 6 months ago + feedback for me was left.
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Old 12 February 2020, 12:32 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ponycar350 View Post
genomicstime IS ONE OF THE WORST TRF MEMBERS I HAVE ENCOUNTERED IN MY LIFE. DO BUSINESS WITH CAUTION. ORIN McCormick in Winter Park Florida (352 area code) filed a paypal not as described case 6 months after purchase. There were no emails or calls regarding any issues and the watch is under warranty. We have called and email this L))SER without any responses. Please keep in mind his profile posts which showed 6 months ago + feedback for me was left.
What a DB move. He last logged in yesterday morning so is still active on the forum. Seller beware
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Old 12 February 2020, 01:19 AM   #3
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Not sure if you noticed, but he posted about the polishing of the watch he got from you in another thread a few months ago. Seems like he should have tried to work it out with you directly.
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Old 12 February 2020, 01:57 AM   #4
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6 months later ??! how can this fly with Paypal ...........
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Old 12 February 2020, 02:04 AM   #5
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Not sure if you noticed, but he posted about the polishing of the watch he got from you in another thread a few months ago. Seems like he should have tried to work it out with you directly.
Got a link? Can't find any ref to poor polish on the Rolex he got from the OP. I did notice he bought something from DavidSW. I'd be a little worried if I was them.
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Old 12 February 2020, 02:23 AM   #6
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That sucks!
He's a new(er) member and this was his very first purchase. Once word gets out, may be his last...
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Old 12 February 2020, 02:24 AM   #7
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6 months later ??! how can this fly with Paypal ...........
that's payapl & ebay - they're trying to emulate the amazon business model and show buyers they're safe buying with them, even to the point of allowing fraud

I sold something stupid (car hands-free kit) that the buyer, before he even received it (ie had not been delivered) wanted a refund. He said his browser didn't show or display the listing descript properly (even though in bold letters the heading of the sale said "FOR PARTS / REPAIR ONLY"

I didn't feel his browser's problem was my responsibility - ebay dis-agreed. Worse part was they refunded him the instant the item was returned - he could have shipped me back a box of rocks for all they knew.

Then to rub salt in the wound, ebay took 5 of my positive feedbacks off - no idea of the logic of that move

Do not offer anything thru paypal or ebay that you can't afford to loose
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Old 12 February 2020, 03:07 AM   #8
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Paypal actually saved me as a seller.

I sold my Apple Watch Series 3 through a site called Swappa that uses PayPal.

The account holder of the PayPal account used to purchase it filed a fraud claim, saying she never purchased the watch, and PayPal reversed the funds - taking the $ away from me. I disputed this action, provided the transaction details and PayPal returned the funds to me.

Near as I can tell, someone must have compromised her account and started using it to buy items.

Fortunately for me, I had shipped it to the address of record with PayPal so I was covered. The scammers must have changed her address when they compromised the account in order to get their ill-gotten loot.


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Old 12 February 2020, 03:14 AM   #9
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This sucks Jared. I’m sorry you have to go through this.

I’ve done many F2F deals with Jared, he’s top notch guy and buyers like this are what make this hobby tough to do sales on. Jared undoubtedly would’ve resolved any issues with this guy had he raised them in a timely fashion
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Old 12 February 2020, 10:43 AM   #10
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Old 17 February 2020, 06:35 AM   #11
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Sounds horrible, that sucks Jared.

He is also badmouthing you in a thread in case you want the chance to respond.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...3#post10227873
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Old 17 February 2020, 07:54 AM   #12
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Dang that sucks. Total douche move to file so late (and without communication).

Thanks for the heads-up.
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Old 17 February 2020, 08:50 AM   #13
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Not very cool.
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Old 24 February 2020, 02:22 AM   #14
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I can't believe someone would have the balls do to that sleazebag move. I won the dispute (of course) and suddenly he contacts me stating that he took the (within-warranty) watch to an independent dealer who performed tests on it and it did not pass. This is a strange one for sure.
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Old 24 February 2020, 02:39 AM   #15
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I can't believe someone would have the balls do to that sleazebag move. I won the dispute (of course) and suddenly he contacts me stating that he took the (within-warranty) watch to an independent dealer who performed tests on it and it did not pass. This is a strange one for sure.
I would just cut all ties with that asshat. Block him and move on.....
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Old 24 February 2020, 02:56 AM   #16
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Obviously the man has no honor or manners doing a DBag move like that. I would avoid this guy at any costs.

genomicstime ORIN McCormick of Winter Park Florida (352 area code) is not to be trusted!
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Old 25 February 2020, 08:57 AM   #17
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Hello everyone,

There is a fair bit of assumption going on here and I wanted to wait until the case resolved to make any statements re: my side of this experience. The idea that I am scamming anybody is simply untrue, irrespective of whether you agree with my side below or not.

First I will say directly to Jared ( ponycar350 ): your Facebook suggestions of paying me a “visit” at my home, as well as the provision of my personal information to your associates down here, are noted, recorded and reported. It is incredibly challenging to feel any sympathy or empathy knowing that you reacted this way to a business dispute through a system that you consented to using. Threats to me and my family at any level are unacceptable and not taken lightly.

It’s great that so many people have had positive experiences buying from Jared, but this wasn’t my experience – at best, I would describe it as uneasy. While I cannot deny that Jared was responsive and courteous, I generally found him to be evasive on key items and several explanations simply didn’t add up re: the watch I purchased. These include the origin/known history of the watch, whether it had been authenticated objectively, and whether the warranty was knowingly voided by any of Jared’s actions.

The general background: I purchased a Rolex 116200 from Jared advertised as in “excellent” condition. Despite his claim that the watch is under warranty, when I requested that Jared place that statement on his invoice at the time of sale through Paypal (seconds after original invoice was issued) I was told that he was busy and did not wish to make that adjustment. There was also the issue of the circumstances under which the watch came into Jared’s possession but I was, after all, new to this arena and I understand that salespeople don’t always practice full transparency to protect their business interests. The warranty item was a clear red flag but, given his tremendous feedback, I went forward with the purchase and assumed the warranty was void. If the watch was relatively new (random serial, warranty card dated 2018) and in excellent condition, servicing during the remaining warranty period might not be needed anyway. Once received I had it professionally looked at under a loupe and timegrapher (+6s/day), but I did not know to request any further testing. In my care, this watch has mostly lived in a safe with the exception of a few trips to the office where it was taken off and placed aside during work – I am aware of the concept of desk diving marks and was determined to avoid this. As far as external appearance, the watch is nearly identical to the day I received it. Simply put, there were no strenuous/forcible/damaging experiences placed on the watch in the entirety of my care. Full stop.

Although initially satisfied, closer inspection revealed that the bracelet had been poorly refinished (polished faces drifting into satin ones) and the case had clearly undergone polishing (a confirmation that was avoided during our discussions). Given that I was several months into ownership and, again, did not initially recognize this as a novice, I knew there would be limited/no reasonable recourse and accepted it somewhat unhappily. As has been noted, I wrote about some of this displeasure on TRF and regret those comments because they are, in essence, meaningless. The fact that I didn’t initiate any direct contact or claim is the only evidence I can offer that, on these issues alone, I wasn’t planning to do anything except address this whenever the watch would be serviced next.

Soon after, I noticed an increasing degradation of timekeeping accuracy. This planted a new concern: what else might be wrong with this watch and, at worst, what if this Rolex was fake? What did I know beyond a reasonable doubt? After wrestling with this, I wanted to put my mind to rest with an additional professional evaluation while still within the Paypal G&S buyer protection window. I fully acknowledge that the optics of this situation transpiring near the end of the 180-day G&S period do not reflect positively. That being said, none of this or my subsequent actions indicate fraud or invalidate the review within the allotted G&S timeframe.

I took the watch to another shop, which charged a fee for any assessment, and was advised that it failed the waterproofing/pressure test (dry) and was running well out of COSC spec (+12s/day). Any further information would require a full servicing, which I would only consider at an RSC (remember the likely voided warranty). Given the age of the watch (2018) and the care I had shown, I concluded that the watch had originally been delivered to me significantly different from the advertised “excellent” condition.

Timkeeping issues may require a simple regulating and I recognize that. The waterproofing issue is another matter and how this happened was unclear. I questioned whether the watch was defective or had been previously been opened, worked on or franken’d, or damaged before my ownership. I also questioned what impacts any of the above might have on the warranty and concluded that I would not be able to rely on it for any repairs. I have never exposed the watch to water, in any circumstance, but wondered: how could I know this was true before my ownership? Most of you are probably more familiar than I with how high these servicing costs can get and, given the level of uncertainty plus known issues, I believed I would face a significant fee to get the watch into the advertised “excellent” condition.

After these latest issues, everything compounded to the level that I felt action was justified. Any resolution was likely to take days or weeks and push me past the G&S protection period. As I was close to the end of this window, and given my experience during the buying process, I felt it was best to first contact Paypal to determine how to proceed. After explaining my situation via call, Paypal escalated my dispute and moved forward with opening a claim. I wrote a full letter detailing my situation and provided this to the resolution center along with supporting evidence. I have also communicated directly with Paypal about potential remedies, which I was told would be discussed with Jared. I was advised to communicate through Paypal only to ensure validity of the process and I’ve adhered to that until now. Based on Jared’s Facebook comments, it seems like that was the right thing to do. I checked with Paypal nearly daily to ask whether there were any questions or clarifications that I could answer/provide and, each time, whether they have communicated my information to Jared. Each time I was assured no additional information was needed from me and Paypal was in the process of reviewing this claim and communicating with the seller to reach a resolution.

I view this as an unfortunate situation on all sides and, for any future purchases, would obviously conduct more thorough checks immediately and provide written confirmation of those findings as soon as available. I regret the circumstance and stresses we have both gone through and vigorously deny any allegation that I am scamming or defrauding anyone.

And, ultimately, my claim was denied. To say that this has been a dissatisfying experience would be an understatement. After the claim closed I reached out to Jared to clear up any confusion in case Paypal hadn’t shared my information as requested, and his responses in tandem with his posts here as well as Facebook are as disappointing as anything in this experience. If my honest actions have suddenly voided his need for decency, then it’s tough to see how this could have ever resolved positively.

I’ve written this to provide my side of the story. I cannot speak to the quality of any of Jared’s other sales but truly believe that this particular purchase was delivered to me significantly not as described and I am simply trying to protect my investment. I believe there are many here who would do the same. Thanks for your attention.
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Old 25 February 2020, 09:12 AM   #18
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An interesting side to the story. The only thing I would have done differently is that once you determined through third party jewelers who examined the watch, I would have called or communicated to Jared that the watch he sold was not “excellent” condition (not water proofed, poor polishing of the bracelet, etc) and come to a monetary agreement. I think I would have requested to send it back for a full refund or for a monetary settlement for you to have it fully serviced to your satisfaction.
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Old 25 February 2020, 09:24 AM   #19
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Gemonicstime - You left it too late, in my opinion. The seller is of good standing here and not in the business of selling fakes. Although to be honest, with so many listings comprising one barely-focused photo, I'm surprised he manages to sell anything on TRF.
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Old 25 February 2020, 09:56 AM   #20
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Gemonicstime - You left it too late, in my opinion. The seller is of good standing here and not in the business of selling fakes. Although to be honest, with so many listings comprising one barely-focused photo, I'm surprised he manages to sell anything on TRF.
This.
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Old 25 February 2020, 10:27 AM   #21
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genomicstime STAY FAR AWAY FROM ORIN MCCORMICK

“Excellent” is a subjective classification. What he thinks is “excellent” may be different than what you think is “excellent,” and what you think is excellent may be different than what I think is excellent. I actually think a polished watch could be a watch in “excellent” condition. Compare that to new/unworn, which should be an objective classification. Once you know it’s used, it’s on you to satisfy yourself as to the condition prior to buying. Did you ask him if the watch had been polished? Did you get photos of the clasp and other areas? It’s on you to do this minimal research. Otherwise he only has to deliver you an authentic Rolex/the watch shown in the photos and as described objectively. Finally, I don’t know why you started another thread about this in Watchout. It’s really confusing.

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Old 25 February 2020, 10:41 AM   #22
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“Excellent” is a subjective classification. What he thinks is “excellent” may be different than what you think is “excellent,” and what you think is excellent may be different than what I think is excellent. I actually think a polished watch could be a watch in “excellent” condition. Compare that to new/unworn, which should be an objective classification. Once you know it’s used, it’s on you to satisfy yourself as to the condition prior to buying. Did you ask him if the watch had been polished? Did you get photos of the clasp and other areas? It’s on you to do this minimal research. Otherwise he only has to deliver you an authentic Rolex/the watch shown in the photos and as described objectively. Finally, I don’t know why you started another thread about this in Watchout. It’s really confusing.

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Are you saying that the bar is low for Jared since he has been on the forum for a while? Sure the word “excellent” means different things to different people, but a poor polish job plus the watch failing the water proofing test is far from “excellent”. I agree the buyer of a watch needs to due some due diligence but a long time seller on TRF should not be taking advantage of a buyer. I am not saying he took advantage, but you must admit the stories are very different and at best confusing.
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Old 25 February 2020, 10:51 AM   #23
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Are you saying that the bar is low for Jared since he has been on the forum for a while? Sure the word “excellent” means different things to different people, but a poor polish job plus the watch failing the water proofing test is far from “excellent”. I agree the buyer of a watch needs to due some due diligence but a long time seller on TRF should not be taking advantage of a buyer. I am not saying he took advantage, but you must admit the stories are very different and at best confusing.
You are taking this as fact. Unless I see actual proof of the poor polish job, +12 sec, and failure of water proofing I'm not buying it. If in fact he took it to someone to have it tested, he surely would have had the results printed out, and the jeweler certainly would back up the results. I'm skeptical he took it anywhere, I'm guessing this guy had buyers remorse. For future reference he should strictly buy from an AD...
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Old 25 February 2020, 11:00 AM   #24
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Hello everyone,

There is a fair bit of assumption going on here and I wanted to wait until the case resolved to make any statements re: my side of this experience. The idea that I am scamming anybody is simply untrue, irrespective of whether you agree with my side below or not.

First I will say directly to Jared ( ponycar350 ): your Facebook suggestions of paying me a “visit” at my home, as well as the provision of my personal information to your associates down here, are noted, recorded and reported. It is incredibly challenging to feel any sympathy or empathy knowing that you reacted this way to a business dispute through a system that you consented to using. Threats to me and my family at any level are unacceptable and not taken lightly.

It’s great that so many people have had positive experiences buying from Jared, but this wasn’t my experience – at best, I would describe it as uneasy. While I cannot deny that Jared was responsive and courteous, I generally found him to be evasive on key items and several explanations simply didn’t add up re: the watch I purchased. These include the origin/known history of the watch, whether it had been authenticated objectively, and whether the warranty was knowingly voided by any of Jared’s actions.

The general background: I purchased a Rolex 116200 from Jared advertised as in “excellent” condition. Despite his claim that the watch is under warranty, when I requested that Jared place that statement on his invoice at the time of sale through Paypal (seconds after original invoice was issued) I was told that he was busy and did not wish to make that adjustment. There was also the issue of the circumstances under which the watch came into Jared’s possession but I was, after all, new to this arena and I understand that salespeople don’t always practice full transparency to protect their business interests. The warranty item was a clear red flag but, given his tremendous feedback, I went forward with the purchase and assumed the warranty was void. If the watch was relatively new (random serial, warranty card dated 2018) and in excellent condition, servicing during the remaining warranty period might not be needed anyway. Once received I had it professionally looked at under a loupe and timegrapher (+6s/day), but I did not know to request any further testing. In my care, this watch has mostly lived in a safe with the exception of a few trips to the office where it was taken off and placed aside during work – I am aware of the concept of desk diving marks and was determined to avoid this. As far as external appearance, the watch is nearly identical to the day I received it. Simply put, there were no strenuous/forcible/damaging experiences placed on the watch in the entirety of my care. Full stop.

Although initially satisfied, closer inspection revealed that the bracelet had been poorly refinished (polished faces drifting into satin ones) and the case had clearly undergone polishing (a confirmation that was avoided during our discussions). Given that I was several months into ownership and, again, did not initially recognize this as a novice, I knew there would be limited/no reasonable recourse and accepted it somewhat unhappily. As has been noted, I wrote about some of this displeasure on TRF and regret those comments because they are, in essence, meaningless. The fact that I didn’t initiate any direct contact or claim is the only evidence I can offer that, on these issues alone, I wasn’t planning to do anything except address this whenever the watch would be serviced next.

Soon after, I noticed an increasing degradation of timekeeping accuracy. This planted a new concern: what else might be wrong with this watch and, at worst, what if this Rolex was fake? What did I know beyond a reasonable doubt? After wrestling with this, I wanted to put my mind to rest with an additional professional evaluation while still within the Paypal G&S buyer protection window. I fully acknowledge that the optics of this situation transpiring near the end of the 180-day G&S period do not reflect positively. That being said, none of this or my subsequent actions indicate fraud or invalidate the review within the allotted G&S timeframe.

I took the watch to another shop, which charged a fee for any assessment, and was advised that it failed the waterproofing/pressure test (dry) and was running well out of COSC spec (+12s/day). Any further information would require a full servicing, which I would only consider at an RSC (remember the likely voided warranty). Given the age of the watch (2018) and the care I had shown, I concluded that the watch had originally been delivered to me significantly different from the advertised “excellent” condition.

Timkeeping issues may require a simple regulating and I recognize that. The waterproofing issue is another matter and how this happened was unclear. I questioned whether the watch was defective or had been previously been opened, worked on or franken’d, or damaged before my ownership. I also questioned what impacts any of the above might have on the warranty and concluded that I would not be able to rely on it for any repairs. I have never exposed the watch to water, in any circumstance, but wondered: how could I know this was true before my ownership? Most of you are probably more familiar than I with how high these servicing costs can get and, given the level of uncertainty plus known issues, I believed I would face a significant fee to get the watch into the advertised “excellent” condition.

After these latest issues, everything compounded to the level that I felt action was justified. Any resolution was likely to take days or weeks and push me past the G&S protection period. As I was close to the end of this window, and given my experience during the buying process, I felt it was best to first contact Paypal to determine how to proceed. After explaining my situation via call, Paypal escalated my dispute and moved forward with opening a claim. I wrote a full letter detailing my situation and provided this to the resolution center along with supporting evidence. I have also communicated directly with Paypal about potential remedies, which I was told would be discussed with Jared. I was advised to communicate through Paypal only to ensure validity of the process and I’ve adhered to that until now. Based on Jared’s Facebook comments, it seems like that was the right thing to do. I checked with Paypal nearly daily to ask whether there were any questions or clarifications that I could answer/provide and, each time, whether they have communicated my information to Jared. Each time I was assured no additional information was needed from me and Paypal was in the process of reviewing this claim and communicating with the seller to reach a resolution.

I view this as an unfortunate situation on all sides and, for any future purchases, would obviously conduct more thorough checks immediately and provide written confirmation of those findings as soon as available. I regret the circumstance and stresses we have both gone through and vigorously deny any allegation that I am scamming or defrauding anyone.

And, ultimately, my claim was denied. To say that this has been a dissatisfying experience would be an understatement. After the claim closed I reached out to Jared to clear up any confusion in case Paypal hadn’t shared my information as requested, and his responses in tandem with his posts here as well as Facebook are as disappointing as anything in this experience. If my honest actions have suddenly voided his need for decency, then it’s tough to see how this could have ever resolved positively.

I’ve written this to provide my side of the story. I cannot speak to the quality of any of Jared’s other sales but truly believe that this particular purchase was delivered to me significantly not as described and I am simply trying to protect my investment. I believe there are many here who would do the same. Thanks for your attention.
That was an extremely well written response and I totally agree with your concerns especially with the personal threats on Facebook however as Adam said you waited entirely too long. Even a month would’ve been too long. You should’ve complained to the seller within a week. Now I understand you are new to this and that definitely gives you some leniency in how long you took but six months is out of line. Take this as a lesson learned and definitely inspect any watch including new ones with a loop the moment you get it.
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Old 25 February 2020, 11:14 AM   #25
Topspin14m
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genomicstime STAY FAR AWAY FROM ORIN MCCORMICK

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillA View Post
Are you saying that the bar is low for Jared since he has been on the forum for a while? Sure the word “excellent” means different things to different people, but a poor polish job plus the watch failing the water proofing test is far from “excellent”. I agree the buyer of a watch needs to due some due diligence but a long time seller on TRF should not be taking advantage of a buyer. I am not saying he took advantage, but you must admit the stories are very different and at best confusing.


No. I’m saying that many dealers say every watch is excellent or 9/10 or whatever. Those aren’t terms that have a uniform definition. Dealers will commonly say “excellent” and the watch has been polished. If you are buying a watch on the internet, it’s on you to do diligence. Look at photos, ask questions, etc. He didn’t do anything for months - literally half a year! - how do we know it wasn’t water proofed and/or running to spec when delivered? Also - A lot of watch makers want to sell services and will say things like the watch isn’t waterproofed. How do we know it’s the watch maker that is reputable?

To me, this guy didn’t do the right diligence before or after he bought the watch. Half a year later he discovered some, what sound like minor, issues, and now wants all his money back. In the meantime he’s worn the watch for 6 months and now it’s had multiple owners/is older/worth less money. Ponycar should not be threatening anyone. That’s insane. But I can understand why he would be angry this guy took out a paypal dispute without contacting him - especially given this story.


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Old 25 February 2020, 11:18 AM   #26
Jim Smyth
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I am not buying the whole story either. He was self admitted New to buying watches. Bought a used lower end Rolex that is still fairly new dated in 2018. I mean how bad could it really be? You had to see the pictures of the watch prior to the sale. Did it not look like the pictures? Now after 6 months decides to do a Paypal dispute without even giving the Seller the courtesy of a heads up first or to let him make things correct in some way even though its been a long time since the sale. Handled very poorly and a dick move IMO.
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Old 25 February 2020, 11:23 AM   #27
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There are so many issues here:

- The buyer seems to be wanting a brand new watch with a factory warranty and guarantees that will give you peace of mind - if that is the case, buy new from AD with the warranty card in your name, the receipt for the insurance, etc.

- Unless you ask in writing and the seller responds in writing that the watch is "unpolished", always assume that a watch has been polished or touched up for before a sale.

- "Excellent" condition can mean anything to anyone. You have to ask precise questions before buying. If there any doubts, simply don't buy the watch!

- The way I view it, a buyer in a transaction has 24-72 hrs to inspect the watch and conclude the transaction. After that, the rest is on you. While everything that you say about how you treat the watch might be true, you cannot honestly expect a seller to be able to accept returns 180 days after the sale?! Agree on the length of the inspection period and if you have a full refund policy BEFORE you pay.

- Regardless of how this went down, and I can understand Jared's frustration here, I don't think it is OK or good practice to hang out this guy with full name & details online (here or on FB). This guy made a lot of bad and questionable decisions, but should this episode really show up in Google searches from now on? Imagine him trying to land a new job and this shows up during the vetting process? I actually think this thread should probably be deleted, or at least full name removed.

Net/net to OP: You might have ended up buying something that didn't live up to your expectations, but you missed the boat on doing something about it. Unless Jared sold you a fake Rolex, you have no recourse here.

My advice: either get over the fact how this went down, do a full service at Rolex (perhaps it will be covered under warranty - call them and ask) and enjoy the watch. If this watch leaves a bad taste in your mouth, sell it, take the financial hit and move on. Chalk it down as a life-lesson.
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Old 25 February 2020, 12:06 PM   #28
EEpro
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Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast View Post
Although to be honest, with so many listings comprising one barely-focused photo, I'm surprised he manages to sell anything on TRF.

I've passed on his listing cash in hand for this very reason
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Old 25 February 2020, 12:23 PM   #29
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First I will say directly to Jared ( ponycar350 ): your Facebook suggestions of paying me a “visit” at my home, as well as the provision of my personal information to your associates down here, are noted, recorded and reported.
I have successfully dealt with Jared in the past with no issues, and have recommended him in the past as a reputable Seller here in TRF. However, I do not agree with anyone making or inferring threats of violence against another member. Can you copy and paste his Facebook post containing the threat here so the community can better evaluate it for what it is?
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Old 25 February 2020, 01:07 PM   #30
Knappo 1307
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These 2 need to show some facts, real quick.....
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