GMT Pepsi - NYC

[7Kenhinho]

Hi all,

I'm looking to purchase my first Rolex (the other being a midsize datejust from my father), and would like to purchase a GMT pepsi, been scouring everywhere for the agreeable price + authenticity, what's the deal with this guy and the watch, is it legit?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rolex-GMT-M...53.m1438.l2649

Thank you very much for the insight,
Ken

[GLADIATOR]

Watch is genuine as is bezel in my opinion.

Some strange "corrosion" on back of bracelet, that you should ask/request better photos
But movement is genuine
adam

[7Kenhinho]

Thank you Gladiator, it looks like the 501 endlinks match with the 78360 bracelet with the ref no. 16700, as the seller noted in the listing.

However, I also see that ref 16700 should have 501B endlinks?

Was it the way the hands were stacked that made you say the movement is legit?

[jcatt]

I'd walk away from this one. There's just nothing to feel good about with it. Very rough, lots of unknowns.

I don't know the seller, but he has decent feedback on some spendy watches, most of which look like he accepted a best offer- so he's obviously willing to take less than asking. It looks like there is some corrosion inside the dial, too- look at the base of the hands as well as the second hand. I am not an expert in the history of earlier GMT's, but it looks in these pics like the 24hr hand is on the bottom, below the hour hand, make sure that's legit for the vintage of this watch, as on later watches, the red hand should be between the hour and minute hand. Could be fine, but that's just the beginning. You need to get inside this one.

At a minimum this watch needs a full RSC service, and with parts (crystal, hands, dial, who knows what else inside, and possibly a new bracelet as it looks like the stainless is torn on the clasp on the left side of the 3rd picture) you're looking at a hefty bill. Factor that into negotiations. Given all of that, I'd say this one is risky. And it's not the only one out there, but it is maybe the cheapest, and that should tell you something.

This isn't a good choice for your first Rolex. Your first Rolex should be a sure thing- take a look at the Explorer II's from the early 2000's. Rock solid, great value today.
JCATT

[7Kenhinho]

Originally Posted by jcatt

I'd walk away from this one. There's just nothing to feel good about with it. Very rough, lots of unknowns.

I don't know the seller, but he has decent feedback on some spendy watches, most of which look like he accepted a best offer- so he's obviously willing to take less than asking. It looks like there is some corrosion inside the dial, too- look at the base of the hands as well as the second hand. I am not an expert in the history of earlier GMT's, but it looks in these pics like the 24hr hand is on the bottom, below the hour hand, make sure that's legit for the vintage of this watch, as on later watches, the red hand should be between the hour and minute hand. Could be fine, but that's just the beginning. You need to get inside this one.

At a minimum this watch needs a full RSC service, and with parts (crystal, hands, dial, who knows what else inside, and possibly a new bracelet as it looks like the stainless is torn on the clasp on the left side of the 3rd picture) you're looking at a hefty bill. Factor that into negotiations. Given all of that, I'd say this one is risky. And it's not the only one out there, but it is maybe the cheapest, and that should tell you something.

This isn't a good choice for your first Rolex. Your first Rolex should be a sure thing- take a look at the Explorer II's from the early 2000's. Rock solid, great value today.
JCATT

JCATT, I see what you're saying. I looked pretty hard at the pics, it does look like the hour hand is closest to the dial and not the GMT hand, so that's reassuring. What is not reassuring is that you have some legitimate points here regarding the structure of the watch, and being a rookie at this game even if he were to show me the movement inside I wouldn't know for certain whether something is sh*t or shinola. It's true - you get what you pay for. Thank you for your input.

[GLADIATOR]

As I say
Movement, bezel and case are genuine
A

[2th_doc]

I dont think a 1st time Rolex buyer should buy his 1st on Ebay. AD or trusted seller is where you should be looking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcatt]

7Kenhinho, no not despair! Your first Rolex is out there. Don't rush it, or as others have added, buy from an unknown. I'll send you a PM now.
JCATT

[Metal]

That watch looks like crap, there's a reason it's still on eBay.
I know it's been mentioned but correct hand stack is no longer a sure fire way to tell a real GMT II.

[Too Old]

First picture seems to be of a different watch.
Scratches on bezel, fit of end links etc.

[ancientmariner]

Originally Posted by Too Old

First picture seems to be of a different watch.
Scratches on bezel, fit of end links etc.

Agree, looks like 2 watches. Watch with '4' date could be circa 1989.

[7Kenhinho]

Originally Posted by Too Old

First picture seems to be of a different watch.
Scratches on bezel, fit of end links etc.

I concur, I kept looking and looking and noticed the same thing about the scratches - it's like swapping an earlier stock photo and then seeing the real watch after pic #3.

I can always stop by the jeweler who owns the ebay store - just a subway ride away.

[7Kenhinho]

Originally Posted by Metal

That watch looks like crap, there's a reason it's still on eBay.
I know it's been mentioned but correct hand stack is no longer a sure fire way to tell a real GMT II.

Really? That's terrible news to me. I thought the conunterfeiters only fixed the handstacking on the new ceramic ones. Saw a Sub online yesterday for over $1,200 dollars - they even fixed the decoration on the movement inside to mimic that of a real watch. It was unbelievable. That said, I also believed the reason it looked so good was probably because they used pictures for a real Sub and then switch to a crappier looking fake once you purchase.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by 7Kenhinho

Really? That's terrible news to me. I thought the conunterfeiters only fixed the handstacking on the new ceramic ones.

They do, but nothing to stop them putting it into a previous version or explorer II

[GGGMT]

OP: Look at good sellers on this forum. Be smart. Stay out of the eBay clown show

[vintagewatch]

Since your in NYC you should go to the Diamond District (47th Street). I was there last week and there are hundreds of Rolex watches for sale. I'm sure you'll be able to find a number of GMT's to view and possibly purchase. Don't be afraid to ask many questions, if a dealer doesn't want to help you another one is just a few feet away.
Good Luck!

[CaveDweller]

Scratch on the 12 on the bezel in the first pic- no scratch on the other pics - walk away ....

[GradyPhilpott]

I agree that there's no reason to take a chance on this watch when there are plenty out there.

At the very least there are two different watches in the photos.

[BillA]

Be careful in NYC diamond district (47th street)
Buy from a trusted seller on TRF

[ttnpb]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

They do, but nothing to stop them putting it into a previous version or explorer II

Doesn't happen.

I'll previous 5 digit GMT fakes were built using 2836 ETA movements w/GMT function.

A new correct hand sequence ETA clone is not campatible with the 2836 cases. Different stem height.


So yes, correct hand stack IS still a good way of authenticity.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by ttnpb

Doesn't happen.

I'll previous 5 digit GMT fakes were built using 2836 ETA movements w/GMT function.

A new correct hand sequence ETA clone is not campatible with the 2836 cases. Different stem height.


So yes, correct hand stack IS still a good way of authenticity.

Interesting. I have a fake correct hand stack with ceramic bezel.
If they can make that they will make an explorer or metal version, if they want.
So although I fully agree its on new ceramic models that hand stack is not definitive, I am not brave enough to say it wont happen on metal bezel.
Why would the stem height stop it?

Thanks
adam

[ttnpb]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Interesting. I have a fake correct hand stack with ceramic bezel.
If they can make that they will make an explorer or metal version, if they want.
So although I fully agree its on new ceramic models that hand stack is not definitive, I am not brave enough to say it wont happen on metal bezel.
Why would the stem height stop it?

Thanks
adam

There are correct hand stack explorer 2's. The newer 6 digit reference. Not the older 5 digit.

The new correct hand stack (CHS) movement used is based on 2824, the old school ichs movement was based on 2836.

A 2824 has a stem height very similar to 3135/6/0 etc. 2836 sits much lower. About a MM or so.

To me it's visible from the wrist, as a genuine 313x crown will be about half way up the bezel ring, and a 2836 fake will be almost completely under the bezel.

Let me find a picture

[ttnpb]

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by ttnpb

There are correct hand stack explorer 2's. The newer 6 digit reference. Not the older 5 digit.

The new correct hand stack (CHS) movement used is based on 2824, the old school ichs movement was based on 2836.

A 2824 has a stem height very similar to 3135/6/0 etc. 2836 sits much lower. About a MM or so.

To me it's visible from the wrist, as a genuine 313x crown will be about half way up the bezel ring, and a 2836 fake will be almost completely under the bezel.

Let me find a picture

Thanks
I can tell you the fakes are using a modified ASIAN movement NOT ETA or SWISS

[Metal]

Originally Posted by ttnpb

Doesn't happen.

I'll previous 5 digit GMT fakes were built using 2836 ETA movements w/GMT function.

A new correct hand sequence ETA clone is not campatible with the 2836 cases. Different stem height.


So yes, correct hand stack IS still a good way of authenticity.

Thanks, I didn't know that!

[ttnpb]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Thanks
I can tell you the fakes are using a modified ASIAN movement NOT ETA or SWISS

Yes, keep in mind when I say ETA i also include asian ETA clones.

They are almost the exact same, differences in tolerances but 99% same.

Sellita, soprod, a few others are all ETA clones no different than Chinese, higher quality but still a clone.

In theory, the gears and plates used to convert the 2824 to the CHS movement could be fitted to a elabore ETA. I just dont think anyone is doing that.