Gen 1570 or fake movement

[Classique Breguet]

I found a guy in vietnam who is associated with the fake watch trade but claims he has an unlimited supply of "new" "Gen" 1570 movements.

Sent this pic.
Is this a gen movement or is there a tell somewhere it is fake.
I already know the guy is not honest as I've caught a few lies I've not disclosed to him.
I am just curious if this is the first confirmation of fake 1570 movements, or if this is a genuine Rolex 1570 movement

[Dan S]

I would really want to see a higher resolution image, so I could judge the quality of the engraving, the finishing of the parts (e.g. chamfered edges), etc. Here is something to compare to.

[Classique Breguet]

The, what I would call "middle" plate on my pic is smooth, whereas on your pic it has the lined pattern, one difference I see already.
I'm talking about the plate right under the purple colored wheel at 9 o clock.

[alwayshere]

I have yet to see a fake 15XX movement.

Plenty of the modern ones are floating around now 31XX calibers which is super dangerous when buying second hand.

Keep us posted on this.... this will change the vintage world if its true...

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

I have yet to see a fake 15XX movement.

Plenty of the modern ones are floating around now 31XX calibers which is super dangerous when buying second hand.

Keep us posted on this.... this will change the vintage world if its true...

Exactly, but this might be the first one, which is why I am asking. It was the claim of "unlimited supply of NEW 1570 movements" that peaked my suspicions.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

The, what I would call "middle" plate on my pic is smooth, whereas on your pic it has the lined pattern, one difference I see already.
I'm talking about the plate right under the purple colored wheel at 9 o clock.

You may be right, it's just really hard for me to see in that photo. If you look at the legit movement, you can see that the plates are nicely chamfered. I suspect that cloned movements don't have that type of finishing. But again, we'd need better photos.

[Classique Breguet]

I've asked the seller for more pics that are larger and in focus.

[antrolexsub]

It’s genuine. 15xx series movements haven’t been faked. The market or monetary reward isn’t there for them unlike modern calibres or 722/727’s.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

I've asked the seller for more pics that are larger and in focus.

But still, they are just pictures and might have nothing to do with what somebody would actually receive.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by Tools

But still, they are just pictures and might have nothing to do with what somebody would actually receive.

Yes this is a very good point. No doubt I've already established the seller is shady. I'm just curious about the "unlimited" source comment.

[Lesnerelli23]

The placement/size of the “1570” engraved looks different. I agree about the finishing on the “middle plate”, AND the angle of the polished edge of the winding rotor looks different.

Also, I’m not sure I agree with the post that says there’s no market and therefore wouldn’t be fakes. Vintage is a HUGE market.

I couldn’t believe what I was shown on a replica forum. There is way more out there than we think. Even vintage. I mean, they were cloning Tudor ETAs for Snowflakes!

I looked into all this when I was shown a Snowflake that the seller insisted had genuine movement, case, and dial. Another user here helped me find tons of info to help me spot fakes in the future but at the cost of knowing, you really can’t be sure sometimes :(


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[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Lesnerelli23

The placement/size of the “1570” engraved looks different. I agree about the finishing on the “middle plate”, AND the angle of the polished edge of the winding rotor looks different.

Also, I’m not sure I agree with the post that says there’s no market and therefore wouldn’t be fakes. Vintage is a HUGE market.

I couldn’t believe what I was shown on a replica forum. There is way more out there than we think. Even vintage. I mean, they were cloning Tudor ETAs for Snowflakes!

I looked into all this when I was shown a Snowflake that the seller insisted had genuine movement, case, and dial. Another user here helped me find tons of info to help me spot fakes in the future but at the cost of knowing, you really can’t be sure sometimes :(


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Several ETA movements are definitely being cloned, I've been hearing about that for a while. The replica market is indeed mind-blowing. However, I agree with what was noted above, in that so far I haven't heard about cloned 15XX movements.

But that doesn't mean it can't happen. In the past, I'm sure there was a really substantial initial tooling cost to manufacture parts, but that is probably getting a lot less expensive with various computer-aided technologies.

[Lesnerelli23]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Several ETA movements are definitely being cloned, I've been hearing about that for a while. The replica market is indeed mind-blowing. However, I agree with what was noted above, in that so far I haven't heard about cloned 15XX movements.

But that doesn't mean it can't happen. In the past, I'm sure there was a really substantial initial tooling cost to manufacture parts, but that is probably getting a lot less expensive with various computer-aided technologies.

Yes, thank you for putting that more clearly. That’s all I meant, that it’s not out of the question just because we haven’t seen it yet :)


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[Classique Breguet]

Hopefully the seller will respond with better pics. It just looks a little off.. and all the parts appear "factory new"

[Classique Breguet]

No point in continuing, I just figured out the "seller" is using other peoples pics, he can't tag the pics, so he does NOT have possession .

[Classique Breguet]

This "seller" just imploded and refused to "tag" any pics to prove they are not other peoples pics

So we are done here.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

This "seller" just imploded and refused to "tag" any pics to prove they are not other peoples pics

So we are done here.

weak.... he needs to learn to photoshop

jokes aside, thanks for closing the loop

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Classique Breguet

No point in continuing, I just figured out the "seller" is using other peoples pics, he can't tag the pics, so he does NOT have possession .

That explains why he has an endless supply.

[SS Oyster]

The seller could send you genuine movement pics and then supply something completely different once you send him money.

What does unlimited even mean? Ask if he supply you 100/month. That answer would be telling.


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[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

The seller could send you genuine movement pics and then supply something completely different once you send him money.

What does unlimited even mean? Ask if he supply you 100/month. That answer would be telling.


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It means he will just keep buying 1500 / 1501 / 1600 / 1601 and parting them out as required.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by SS Oyster

The seller could send you genuine movement pics and then supply something completely different once you send him money.

What does unlimited even mean? Ask if he supply you 100/month. That answer would be telling.


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I think it means he would happily take my money, but never ship

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by classique breguet

i think it means he would happily take an unlimited amount of my money, but never ship

fify

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Lesnerelli23

Yes, thank you for putting that more clearly. That’s all I meant, that it’s not out of the question just because we haven’t seen it yet :)


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Only a matter of time methinks.

1570/5 mvts were just £250 15 years ago, £750 about 5 years ago and I saw one sell for just under £1,500 a while back, now that (the thing that kept prices low) ratty donor datejusts and like are rare or fetching £3k+.

With 5513/1680/1675/1665/1655 moving from £5k to £20k + in last decade, the fakers will move beyond dials, hands, mid-cases and case backs to calibres....as sure as eggs are eggs.

[Classique Breguet]

Originally Posted by Dan S

fify

Hah! Exactly!