Minutes hand lagging behind seconds hand?

[dannyp]

So I noticed that my minute hand slightly lags the seconds hand. No idea if this is just how it was set by the watchmaker when I bought it (he set when sizing) or if the two were in sync and diverged.

The interesting thing is that when comparing the seconds hand to my phone, the watch gains slightly under a second a day. Compare the minutes hand to my phone, though, and that gain is cut in half (assuming minutes and seconds hands were synced exactly when initially set).

This isn’t a “what’s wrong, I’d it cursed?!?!” Question. More a curiosity on how these things actually are attached inside.

[HiBoost]

Not entirely sure what you are describing here. Are you saying that, for example, you never get all 3 hands perfectly at 12 o'clock? That perhaps the minute hand doesn't get perfectly aligned with 12 until the seconds hand is a few seconds past 12? It would help to know what movement you have, but if it is a hacking movement (second hand stops completely when crown is pulled out) then you should be able to hack it when the second hand is exactly at 12, then move the hour/minute hands to the next actual minute (let's say it is 12:34:41 right now, set the hour/minute to 12:35) then when the seconds hit 00 push the crown in to stop the hacking.

Of course I may have completely misunderstood what you meant :)

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Not entirely sure what you are describing here. Are you saying that, for example, you never get all 3 hands perfectly at 12 o'clock? That perhaps the minute hand doesn't get perfectly aligned with 12 until the seconds hand is a few seconds past 12? It would help to know what movement you have, but if it is a hacking movement (second hand stops completely when crown is pulled out) then you should be able to hack it when the second hand is exactly at 12, then move the hour/minute hands to the next actual minute (let's say it is 12:34:41 right now, set the hour/minute to 12:35) then when the seconds hit 00 push the crown in to stop the hacking.

Of course I may have completely misunderstood what you meant :)

Movement is new 3230. When watchmaker set watch, I believe it was set with the minute hand exactly on the minute mark and the seconds hand at 12:00. Now, the minute hand lags about 15 seconds behind the minute hand (minute hand hits the minute market, seconds hand already at 00:15).

So, the question isn't whether they can be set completely in sync. The question is whether, once set, the two can move slightly out of sync?

If the answer is "yes" then that suggests the hour/minute hands of my watch in fact keep better time than the seconds hand (as they've gained less time in the last month). Does that make sense?

[HiBoost]

Ok, that sounds like an internal issue if I'm understanding you correctly. The second hand is a friction fit that allows slippage to facilitate time setting. But I've had watches where the second hand would obviously "fall" at certain parts in the revolution because the friction wasn't enough. It was a simple fix for a watchmaker to remedy. Not sure if that's what you are experiencing or not, but something seems off. I would take to the watchmaker/AD/etc and get their opinion.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Ok, that sounds like an internal issue if I'm understanding you correctly. The second hand is a friction fit that allows slippage to facilitate time setting. But I've had watches where the second hand would obviously "fall" at certain parts in the revolution because the friction wasn't enough. It was a simple fix for a watchmaker to remedy. Not sure if that's what you are experiencing or not, but something seems off. I would take to the watchmaker/AD/etc and get their opinion.

It's also possible that it wasn't perfectly synced when set initially (I didn't really take notice until today). First order of business: try setting it myself (which I just did). There's also some "give" when setting the minute hand (the old "3185/3186 wiggle test" comes to mind).

[SearChart]

Just set it again?!

Unless the hour and minute hands are out of sync with each other there is no issue you cannot solve yourself.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Just set it again?!

Unless the hour and minute hands are out of sync with each other there is no issue you cannot solve yourself.

Yup, that's exactly what I did. As a follow-up question:

When setting, there are always a couple seconds worth of "wiggle" (i.e. give) in the minute hand; if trying to line up exactly to a minute mark do I want "wiggle" forward to get there, or back, if that makes sense?

In other words, if I want the minute hand right on the "3" marker (15 past the hour), do I set the hand slightly in front, then "wiggle" back, or slightly behind and "wiggle" forward (in terms of where that "give" should be when setting).

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Yup, that's exactly what I did. As a follow-up question:

When setting, there are always a couple seconds worth of "wiggle" (i.e. give) in the minute hand; if trying to line up exactly to a minute mark do I want "wiggle" forward to get there, or back, if that makes sense?

In other words, if I want the minute hand right on the "3" marker (15 past the hour), do I set the hand slightly in front, then "wiggle" back, or slightly behind and "wiggle" forward (in terms of where that "give" should be when setting).

It's a little space (slack) between the gears in the setting mechanism (cannon pinion, intermediate setting wheel, hour wheel). Gears need that space in order to work properly, otherwise they'd get stuck.

If you're trying to eliminate that as much as possible then I'd slowly set it forwards/clockwise to take out the slack when setting the time.

If you do it backwards it will first need to get through the slack before it starts to properly engage, this can be 30 seconds or so and thus enough to be able to see a very minor misalignment.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by SearChart

It's a little space (slack) between the gears in the setting mechanism (cannon pinion, intermediate setting wheel, hour wheel). Gears need that space in order to work properly, otherwise they'd get stuck.

If you're trying to eliminate that as much as possible then I'd slowly set it forwards/clockwise to take out the slack when setting the time.

If you do it backwards it will first need to get through the slack before it starts to properly engage, this can be 30 seconds or so and thus enough to be able to see a very minor misalignment.

Not eliminate so much as knowing whether the "true" setting is slightly forward or slightly back. I used to know this for the 3186, back when I got a 16570, but now only remember that there was an answer, not what that answer was.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Not eliminate so much as knowing whether the "true" setting is slightly forward or slightly back. I used to know this for the 3186, back when I got a 16570, but now only remember that there was an answer, not what that answer was.

You just got the true answer from a Rolex watchmaker :) Take out all slack while moving in the forward (clockwise) direction and set the time precisely. There should not be any additional "slip" now and the hands should maintain their same relative synchronization.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

You just got the true answer from a Rolex watchmaker :) Take out all slack while moving in the forward (clockwise) direction and set the time precisely. There should not be any additional "slip" now and the hands should maintain their same relative synchronization.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

Yes, that sounds familiar! Is that unique to the 3186, or is this what to do for any/all Rolexes?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Yes, that sounds familiar! Is that unique to the 3186, or is this what to do for any/all Rolexes?

All watches that move clockwise.

I find that hacking the movement when the seconds hand is at 5-10 seconds past the top of the hour. Then stop minute hand at exactly the minute mark while going clockwise. This tends to result in the best clocking for me.