If not Rolex, then what?

[the dark knight]

I dropped out of the hobby for a bit 3-4 years ago. I recently started paying attention again looking to purchase some new watches, and it's a wildly different climate from what I remember. Back then I saw a BLNR in an AD's display case passing by, and I was able to try on an AP RO offered at MSRP at the AD. Very different times.

I hear a lot of people bemoaning the current state of affairs and vowing never to buy grey, which is totally understandable.

So this is a serious question because I too may be tempted to look at other brands. But even at grey market prices, what's a true alternative to Rolex sports watches in your opinion?

For example, I see brand new Subs going for about 13-14k. I hear some people saying a Sub is not a 14k watch. But what would you rather have in that price range? The only thing that comes to mind is the Fifty Fathoms. Would you consider that a notch above the Sub? Because other 3 handers from companies a clear cut above Rolex, like the VC Overseas, is still going for about 6-7k more than the Sub. A lot more if you want an AP RO.

Or is the value proposition troubling going the other way? A sub costing 3-4x more than a BB 58 or Omega SMP?

What about the Explorer? Maybe rather get a JLC Polaris for that money? I mean is that really a better watch overall than the Explorer?

[VonSomething]

Honestly, get an Omega SMP 300 and be done with it, unless it absolutely MUST be a Rolex / AP. Such a great watch though.

[Puppysmasher]

This is a pretty broad question and really depends which factors you value more. Do you put more weight on brand prestige (and if so how do you quantify that), value retentions, technical specs?

I think the most obvious answer for an overall brand would be Omega. Sub vs Omega SMP. Speedmasters vs Daytonas. PO's vs Seadwellers. Aqua Terras vs Datejusts & OPs. METAS certification vs COSC.

[kieselguhr]

When it comes to watches, perception is based on illusion. The truth is many differently priced watches are outright similar in quality and production methods yet priced multiples apart. The pinnacle of mechanical watch technology was achieved ages ago. So in modern times they have to entice you with exotic materials like “carbon fiber” and “unobtanium” coupled with key marketing words like “hand finished” and “limited production” as artificial factors for prices.

Get what you want and will put a smile on your face when you glance for the time. Price between brands is irrelevant.

[vh2k]

Omega Seamaster Diver 300M is the hottest watch of the past couple of years. Can’t go wrong for app. $4,000. Looks fantastic in every color.

Cartier Santos

Zenith El Primero Chronomaster

Omega Speedmaster

Tag and Breitling have many great models at nice discounts.

Grand Seiko

And dozens more great Swiss brands from which to choose.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I hear a lot of people bemoaning the current state of affairs.... So this is a serious question because I too may be tempted to look at other brands. But even at grey market prices, what's a true alternative to Rolex sports watches in your opinion?

TONS of great alternatives. Look online for things you like, visit an AD or three, and get what makes you happy.

[TheVTCGuy]

That’s a great question, I think probably Omega would be my next choice, but there are so many awesome watches to choose from. Take your time, look around, wear as many as you can, one day a watch will “sing” to you and you’ll know.

[logo]

Social media makes us believe that one thing is better than another, and this forum does perpetuate that to some degree. We also have a tendency to "want" what we can't have. Human nature. However, if you truly just buy what you like you won't give a damn about what resale values are, or comparing one watch to another, or whether the next poster thinks that ceramic SS daytonas are the holy grail. Buy what you like, pay what you think the watch is worth TO YOU, not what someone else thinks it's worth.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by logo

Social media makes us believe that one thing is better than another, and this forum does perpetuate that to some degree. We also have a tendency to "want" what we can't have. Human nature. However, if you truly just buy what you like you won't give a damn about what resale values are, or comparing one watch to another, or whether the next poster thinks that ceramic SS daytonas are the holy grail. Buy what you like, pay what you think the watch is worth TO YOU, not what someone else thinks it's worth.

Very well said.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by logo

Social media makes us believe that one thing is better than another, and this forum does perpetuate that to some degree. We also have a tendency to "want" what we can't have. Human nature. However, if you truly just buy what you like you won't give a damn about what resale values are, or comparing one watch to another, or whether the next poster thinks that ceramic SS daytonas are the holy grail. Buy what you like, pay what you think the watch is worth TO YOU, not what someone else thinks it's worth.

^ what he said

[Chewbacca]

Scarcity is a marketing and branding concept Rolex has decided on. Rolex is now just pivoting and people like the OP are the risk Rolex is taking. The parachute is Tudor to keep people in the stable but Rolex might have overplayed their hand a bit.

[Notepad12]

Omega to be honest

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[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Notepad12

Omega to be honest

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Omega is a solid brand and it’s not even Swatch Group’s best. Highly recommended.

[TswaneNguni]

Nope,Rolex will remain the largest part of my collection.

[RoRoRo]

The Rolex effect has given tunnel vision to many. There are so many other brands that deserve recognition but sadly get dismissed purely because most use the Rolex litmus test against them. .

If you dump 10k on a watch, if needs must what will you get back (a common thought) Rolex is the only mainstream brand that gives a sense of security due to popularity. Popularity has caused cult models to increase massively in value and hence the term “investment” is bandied about. Supply/Demand/marketscape has worked in an extraordinary way for Rolex.

With inflation and market trends Rolex needs a sub brand to satisfy the market space that once was occupied by themselves. Along comes Tudor. And the powerhouse that is uses similar marketing tactics to create scarcity/exclusivity.

So now you have the same company operating in two markets, mid and high.

Now Tudor is used as a litmus test, and guess what wins again in most minds.

It’s unbelievable, wherever you want to park your money these two brands are ultimate powerhouses.

[ArtNouveau]

In addition to my two Rolex, I also love my Omega Speedmaster Pro, and several Seiko Turtles. Over my 36 years of mechanical watches I’ve also had three Panerai and a couple of Breitlings.
I could easily find something new I like amongst those brands. Lately a Grand Seiko diver that goes for around $6K has caught my eye.

[Brian Page]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I dropped out of the hobby for a bit 3-4 years ago. I recently started paying attention again looking to purchase some new watches, and it's a wildly different climate from what I remember. Back then I saw a BLNR in an AD's display case passing by, and I was able to try on an AP RO offered at MSRP at the AD. Very different times.

I hear a lot of people bemoaning the current state of affairs and vowing never to buy grey, which is totally understandable.

So this is a serious question because I too may be tempted to look at other brands. But even at grey market prices, what's a true alternative to Rolex sports watches in your opinion?

For example, I see brand new Subs going for about 13-14k. I hear some people saying a Sub is not a 14k watch. But what would you rather have in that price range? The only thing that comes to mind is the Fifty Fathoms. Would you consider that a notch above the Sub? Because other 3 handers from companies a clear cut above Rolex, like the VC Overseas, is still going for about 6-7k more than the Sub. A lot more if you want an AP RO.

Or is the value proposition troubling going the other way? A sub costing 3-4x more than a BB 58 or Omega SMP?

What about the Explorer? Maybe rather get a JLC Polaris for that money? I mean is that really a better watch overall than the Explorer?

Tough one because nothing else is a "Rolex" - that being said, none of my Rolex models even come close to touching the accuracy of either of my 2 Omegas. That's not to rip on Rolex, I currently have in inventory a few and they are performing "fine" but not like my seamaster chrono 300 which runs about 1 second fast over a 2 week period, or even my Speedy Saphire Sandwich which sports the 1863 manual wind movement which I don't even bother to check or test at that level due to lack of hacking movement.

To further elaborate - when I say my current Rolex models are running fine and in spec, that's not to say that I haven't had numerous ones that have been way out of spec, both newer and older models. At the same time over the years I've owned many Omegas and can't recall one of them that wasn't spot on.

At the end of the day it's simply a watch, however when it's a new model promised to run within a certain spec - that can be frustrating. I'm a little more forgiving on the couple of "vintage" Rolex that I currently own yet neither of the two in question run slow - they run about 5 sec. fast daily which for me is a lot easier to deal with than the slow down issue.

Lot's of other choices out there, VC, AP, IWC etc.. as you mention, but - if you want to go the Rolex rout unfortunately they have their own set of issues not the least of which is paying a premium to score one.

Best of luck!

[m j b]

I don't see the need to spend more. As mentioned by others, Omega is an excellent choice. I recently sold my SMP for $3600. Beautiful watch, keeps great time, solid build, just too big and heavy for my svelte waif-like wrists.

I still have, and love, my Speedmaster sapphire sammich.

Also, not "Swiss" per se, I just bought a Monta, which is very nice, and last year I got a Davosa, which has all of the styling and much of the quality of a sub for under $1000.

[RyanJ]

No one here can answer this question for you. It all depends on what you want.

Some will not buy a watch that does not say Rolex on the dial. That is perfectly fine.

Omega - So many. Omega is on par with Rolex for many models. Most have been mentioned.
* Omega Seamaster Railmaster (220.10.40.20.01.001 specifically) is a great Rolex Explorer alternative. The Railmaster line actually has history behind it if you are into that. I own a Rolex Explorer and am in the process of buying this Railmaster as I really like the watch.

Tudor - BB58 or Pelagos if your wrist can wear it.

JLC - Reverso. The only thing that can remotely compete with this is the Cartier Tank.

Grand Seiko - Love their Spring Drive movement. GS is making huge strides in all of their movement types.
* Drive Watches - SBGA231 in Titanium. Big watch but super lightweight
* GMT - SBGE253, SBGE255, SGBE257. All 39mm GMT watches.

[1lastone]

People complain about buying Rolex at grey but then are the first to buy at grey discount for other brands. Imo you can’t have it both ways. It depends what you are buying a watch for, there are certain Rolexes I have always wanted and even though I know that objectively speaking there are better watches for the price you now have to pay I still wanted to collect them. I got a zenith el primero which quality/watch making wise is easily equal to Rolex at half the (retail!) price of a Daytona. Sometimes demand just creates demand. If you have to have Rolex I’d say look at the milgauss/explorer or buy omega at discount and be happy

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

Iwhat's a true alternative to Rolex sports watches in your opinion?

Any alternative that you want to be an alternative. It's not about the brand. Like what you like, buy what you want, wear what makes you happy.

[Atone]

omega, tudor, AP, VC, GS, Zenith . . . so many cool watches.

[brandrea]

There are lots of other great brands out there.

You dont have to limit yourself to a budget in the thousands either



IMG_20191222_130845_270.jpg

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[Chloe&Harley]

Originally Posted by RoRoRo

The Rolex effect has given tunnel vision to many. There are so many other brands that deserve recognition but sadly get dismissed purely because most use the Rolex litmus test against them. .

If you dump 10k on a watch, if needs must what will you get back (a common thought) Rolex is the only mainstream brand that gives a sense of security due to popularity. Popularity has caused cult models to increase massively in value and hence the term “investment” is bandied about. Supply/Demand/marketscape has worked in an extraordinary way for Rolex.

With inflation and market trends Rolex needs a sub brand to satisfy the market space that once was occupied by themselves. Along comes Tudor. And the powerhouse that is uses similar marketing tactics to create scarcity/exclusivity.

So now you have the same company operating in two markets, mid and high.

Now Tudor is used as a litmus test, and guess what wins again in most minds.

It’s unbelievable, wherever you want to park your money these two brands are ultimate powerhouses.

Well said.

[Seddyspaghetti]

I would say tudor.

[evlkoala]

Smp 300

[SN13]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I dropped out of the hobby for a bit 3-4 years ago.

But even at grey market prices, what's a true alternative to Rolex sports watches in your opinion?

But what would you rather have in that price range?

Good questions.

I personally will not play the over-msrp grey dealer game.

I don't need something so badly that I will succumb to the pressure and spend $13k on a $9k watch.

Your question is loaded because you state "What would you rather have in that price range?" Well you're talking Grey pricing...

Let's use a Grey Dealer I've bought stuff before at discounted prices....

We'll call it Shop-"A".

At ShopA you can buy a new 116610LN for $14,500 right now.

You can also buy a Platinum Breitling 43mm Chronograph for 10k.

Or a Brand new Omega PO GMT Black/White for $5800 (8k MSRP).

Or a Bvlgari Octo Extra thin for $9300 (13k msrp).

Or a Frank Muller Vanguard 18k --- $10,300 (20.5k msrp)

Or an A. Lange And Sonhne Saxonia 18k - $10.9k (15.5k msrp)

Blancpain 50-Fathoms --- $11.5k



The point is, there are ALOT of options if you're comparing GREY to GREY pricing.

Rolex doesn't exist in a bubble. There are tons of options out there that I would rather spend $14k on than a Sub.

Now, at $9k is there something I'd rather have than a Sub? NEW at MSRP? No. Nothing that I can think of.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by SN13

Good questions.

I personally will not play the over-msrp grey dealer game.

I don't need something so badly that I will succumb to the pressure and spend $13k on a $9k watch.

Your question is loaded because you state "What would you rather have in that price range?" Well you're talking Grey pricing...

Let's use a Grey Dealer I've bought stuff before at discounted prices....

We'll call it Shop-"A".

At ShopA you can buy a new 116610LN for $14,500 right now.

You can also buy a Platinum Breitling 43mm Chronograph for 10k.

Or a Brand new Omega PO GMT Black/White for $5800 (8k MSRP).

Or a Bvlgari Octo Extra thin for $9300 (13k msrp).

Or a Frank Muller Vanguard 18k --- $10,300 (20.5k msrp)

Or an A. Lange And Sonhne Saxonia 18k - $10.9k (15.5k msrp)

Blancpain 50-Fathoms --- $11.5k



The point is, there are ALOT of options if you're comparing GREY to GREY pricing.

Rolex doesn't exist in a bubble. There are tons of options out there that I would rather spend $14k on than a Sub.

Now, at $9k is there something I'd rather have than a Sub? NEW at MSRP? No. Nothing that I can think of.

Nice list. That Saxonia really jumps out there.

[Max 66]

Looking at the diver watches the alternatives can be (price low to high):
a) Tudor Pelagos
b) Omega Seamaster 300
c) Grand Seiko SBGE 253 / 255 / 257
d) Blancpain Fifty Fathoms

If you are a bit more flexible in the requirements, there should be the possibility to get a Yacht Master waiting some months to AD or paying a relatively small premium to grey dealer or something like the Breguet Marine 5817 or the Cartier Pasha 41 mm; these are three nice watches and definitely less inflated than the Submariner. 

[Old Farmer]

I was able to geta TUDOR day date, delivery expected mid-February