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Old 19 January 2021, 03:17 AM   #31
bonsai-man
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This made me laugh. Normally a deposit < 100%!
Ha!
Never heard of a deposit = full payment.

Tell AD "no problem, please invoice me for the watch" and pay with a credit card.
Unfortunately it really is only a 100% deposit as if the price increases it’s not full payment. If they invoice as paid in full WOS will take a bath if the price goes up. On my 5711 I had 2 price rises including the big 20% one, in total the cost of a new Sub. They can’t invoice as they won’t know the final price until the watch is issued to them, they then charge the current RRP not the RRP when the deposit was paid. Yeah I got caught with that one too.
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Old 19 January 2021, 04:50 AM   #32
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Some people have mentioned this is how ADs can now borrow at 0% interest, but if their accountants are properly following GAAP then any deposits would be recognized under deferred revenue (a liability on the B.S.). Very different than borrowing from a bank and immediately recognizing an injection of cash as an asset on the balance sheet or having a revolving credit facility.

I would think this would be especially true for WoS considering they are a publicly held company. Mom and pop stores are the ones that would have more wiggle room in how they recognize revenue.
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Old 19 January 2021, 05:17 AM   #33
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WOS in NY asked me to pay 100% deposit for an aquanaut with no specific timeline. Is it even a normal practice? I used to buy other brand from them but never be required to secure a deposit. Maybe WOS has a special policy for Patek sought-after pieces?
I think WoS's policies have evolved toward taking deposits. I never used to put a deposit on anything with them (including my 5711), but was recently asked to put a nominal deposit on a GS and a full deposit for a gold Rolex (there were already 3 full deposits ahead of me). I don't really mind the practice as long as it means I have a definitive place in line vs. somewhere on a subjective waitlist.

In terms of delivery timelines, I understand why they're hesitant to commit. They didn't get their full Patek allocation in 2020 due to COVID and don't yet have their allocations for 2021. It's a lose-lose situation.
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Old 19 January 2021, 05:23 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LJubel328 View Post
Some people have mentioned this is how ADs can now borrow at 0% interest, but if their accountants are properly following GAAP then any deposits would be recognized under deferred revenue (a liability on the B.S.). Very different than borrowing from a bank and immediately recognizing an injection of cash as an asset on the balance sheet or having a revolving credit facility.

I would think this would be especially true for WoS considering they are a publicly held company. Mom and pop stores are the ones that would have more wiggle room in how they recognize revenue.
Agreed 100%
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Old 19 January 2021, 05:47 AM   #35
enjoythemusic
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This is the ADs way of borrowing cash at 0% as opposed to bank financing.
Versus 0.25% at banks, i see zero loss there? As for full deposit, i'd trust WoS so no worries, yet you can always try your luck elsewhere (frankly, am surprised they took an order for the Aqua).

i went with the Bvlgari Octo Finissimo S, newer world-record movement that has truly innovative design and more modern style too as the Aqua is very, very old. Bvlgari's integrated bracelet is far superior to the Patek, that's for sure. Had two Aqua many years ago (5167 one for me, smaller mechanical one for my Muse/wife), imho the Bvlgari is much better plus it comes with a longer warranty than PP too.

WoS carries Bvlgari so you should go see it before you decide on either timepiece.

Bvlgari_Octo_Finissimo_S.jpg
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Old 19 January 2021, 05:56 AM   #36
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100% seems excessive. I paid 10% for my Nautilus and i thought that was punchy given no timescales were assured.

If you have the cash then i guess no big issue, and WOS can surely be trusted on a financial front.


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Old 19 January 2021, 06:02 AM   #37
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[QUOTE=enjoythemusic;11207981]Versus 0.25% at banks, i see zero loss there? As for full deposit, i'd trust WoS so no worries, yet you can always try your luck elsewhere (frankly, am surprised they took an order for the Aqua).

i went with the Bvlgari Octo Finissimo S, newer world-record movement that has truly innovative design and more modern style too as the Aqua is very, very old. Bvlgari's integrated bracelet is far superior to the Patek, that's for sure. Had two Aqua many years ago (5167 one for me, smaller mechanical one for my Muse/wife), imho the Bvlgari is much better plus it comes with a longer warranty than PP too.

WoS carries Bvlgari so you should go see it before you decide on either timepiece.
..............
Always nice to read today's Octo ad, Steven. Glad you like your watch ! Maybe change the language tomorrow?
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Old 19 January 2021, 07:23 AM   #38
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I would do this if they could guarantee delivery within a few years. Doing a simple risk/reward calculation, your expected return is still well-positive even if you assign a high probability to WoS failing within that timeframe. I used a 20% probability in my calculation. Not sure I can detail the calculation here because it would require me to discuss market values, which might be frowned upon.
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Old 19 January 2021, 07:45 AM   #39
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Always nice to read today's Octo ad, Steven. Glad you like your watch ! Maybe change the language tomorrow?
Imho it really is better all-around. Yes I'm passionate, yet it really stole my heart. Never, ever considered Bvlgari for decades, yet these new models really are darn impressive. Even beat out the AP I was considering.

(Friendly humor) Will try using Italian next time.
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Old 19 January 2021, 07:57 AM   #40
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Versus 0.25% at banks, i see zero loss there? As for full deposit, i'd trust WoS so no worries, yet you can always try your luck elsewhere (frankly, am surprised they took an order for the Aqua).

i went with the Bvlgari Octo Finissimo S, newer world-record movement that has truly innovative design and more modern style too as the Aqua is very, very old. Bvlgari's integrated bracelet is far superior to the Patek, that's for sure. Had two Aqua many years ago (5167 one for me, smaller mechanical one for my Muse/wife), imho the Bvlgari is much better plus it comes with a longer warranty than PP too.

WoS carries Bvlgari so you should go see it before you decide on either timepiece.

Attachment 1197923
Very nice piece... how does it wear comparatively to a Nautilus or Aquanaut? I've often considered a piece like this but the more square design seems to make it appear larger (at least in pictures).
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Old 19 January 2021, 08:02 AM   #41
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Versus 0.25% at banks, i see zero loss there? As for full deposit, i'd trust WoS so no worries, yet you can always try your luck elsewhere (frankly, am surprised they took an order for the Aqua).

i went with the Bvlgari Octo Finissimo S, newer world-record movement that has truly innovative design and more modern style too as the Aqua is very, very old. Bvlgari's integrated bracelet is far superior to the Patek, that's for sure. Had two Aqua many years ago (5167 one for me, smaller mechanical one for my Muse/wife), imho the Bvlgari is much better plus it comes with a longer warranty than PP too.

WoS carries Bvlgari so you should go see it before you decide on either timepiece.

Attachment 1197923
repping Bvlgari hard!!! love the enthusiasm:)
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Old 19 January 2021, 08:04 AM   #42
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I would do the 100% deposit OP, sometimes you have to take irrational decisions to really get what you want, it's what separates you from the rest of the herd. Probably part of WOS strategy as well to separate the really serious collectors from the small-time flippers, as they do not wish to have money tied in a watch for an unknown amount of time. Also, WOS is a publicly traded company and their financials were very good in 2020, it's not a small mom and pop store looking for some cashflow there.
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Old 19 January 2021, 08:35 AM   #43
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first of all my PP AD refused to take a full payment (although i offered), my AD also refused to take a down payment (although i offered).
I had three differnt patek (3919J, 5146G and 5170G). and i was on the list from 2015 or 2016.
Thier rules was simple, every year they get a certain allocation (it used to get allocated in Basel). They go on the list and allocate the watches to the people who are due to get watches, you get notified exactly one month before your allocated watch gets shipped from Switzerland. and by then you have to come to the boutique make the full payment otherwise you lose your spot and the watch goes to the person after you in the list.

in every contract thier are two parties, and what seems like unfair to one party could turn out to be a great opportunity if you change your prospective.
if you have the money, i wouldn't mind making full payment, the beifit you would get is at least you would lock in the watch price and not be subject to currency fluctuations or annual watch price increases.
i don't even think WoS would ask you to make full payment if they are not intending to deliver a watch to you in the same year because then they are exposed to the risks i just mentioned
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Old 19 January 2021, 09:28 AM   #44
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From my point of view I would be happy to pay the full deposit. It shows willing on your part and I would trust an AD of their scale to come up with the goods promptly after taking a payment in full.
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Old 19 January 2021, 10:46 AM   #45
Andybethel
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This happened to me on a 5712R. I paid in full, and then 18 months later when the watch was delivered, and Patek had upped their MSRP’s, I was made to put the difference. My recipe did say paid in full, but I had no power. Had to cough up.


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Old 19 January 2021, 11:31 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by enjoythemusic View Post
Imho it really is better all-around. Yes I'm passionate, yet it really stole my heart. Never, ever considered Bvlgari for decades, yet these new models really are darn impressive. Even beat out the AP I was considering.

(Friendly humor) Will try using Italian next time.
All good and my comment was a bit too much. The Octo is a fine watch and a good friend has one and loves it.

Frank
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Old 19 January 2021, 08:51 PM   #47
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All good and my comment was a bit too much. The Octo is a fine watch and a good friend has one and loves it.

Frank
Don't be a p*ssy! lol Say it as it is man!, Steven does! I'm in agreement the Octo is rank!
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Old 19 January 2021, 11:55 PM   #48
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Very nice piece... how does it wear comparatively to a Nautilus or Aquanaut? I've often considered a piece like this but the more square design seems to make it appear larger (at least in pictures).
Never had the Naut, yet comparing to the Aqua it wears lighter, thinner, and the bracelet is truly integrated. Check out the butterfly clasp in person and how it 'goes into' the bracelet for wearing comfort. Reliability has been surprisingly great, as i do not baby timepieces. What blows my mind, too, is that even in very dim light the dial is still very legible (unlike the Omega 50th Buzz Butt for example, and that has lume!). It is the way Bvlgari chose to have curved / polished dial bits. Sure i wish it had lume, initially, yet am glad they did not lume as it would have taken away from the overall gestalt of it. Please just go see it and try it on and decide for yourself. It is VERY different than, say, my PAM01033 on many levels. DIFFERENT, not saying better or worse. And yes, the movement is amazing, and yes i have PP 3820 with the Piaget 9P, the Bvlgari is better imho.

Just be prepared as it is very thin and light, so if you prefer heft then the Bvlgari is probably not for 'you'. Though if you desire true innovation (Bvlgari), proper warranty, usability to 100m WP for water sports.... :)



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repping Bvlgari hard!!! love the enthusiasm:)
Thanks, and i truly am surprised it bit me THIS hard in a good way. Was really seeking to get the AP like everyone else (herd mentality plus am a fan of Mr. Robot), but we all know the story of availability there. Then one of my longtime timepiece enthusiast friends turned me onto the Bvlgari and glad he did! Guess i'm doing the same for others and he kinda did for me. Word-of-mouth is like that when things are this great and done right.


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All good and my comment was a bit too much. The Octo is a fine watch and a good friend has one and loves it.
Frank
We're 100% cool and everyone who knows me knows i can be a bit of a.... ummmm... 'strong personality'. Yet when i'm this passionate, if i may humbly suggest it might be good to at least check it out and of course decide for yourself. Am sure a few might say the Bvlgari is 'too light' as they love Panerai or the Rollie SkyD, which have great heft on the wrist. Yeah, the SkyD SS blue here and Bvlgari are kinda opposites per see, yet love them both, and the PAM, and Omega, and the Heuer Monaco Gulf, and my 1980's Swatch.... and the wife's Cartier Tank XL we share-wear....

My sig file applies.

PS: Check out this web page to see the Bvlgari movement deconstructed, keeping in mind how friggen THIN this movement is, yet is still durable and usable for daily fun... and 100m WP depths.
https://www.thenakedwatchmaker.com/d...ulgari-ceramic
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:54 AM   #49
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Somewhat of a timeframe and fully refundable in writing? Sure no issues giving 100% up for that watch.
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Old 20 January 2021, 06:08 AM   #50
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I've never had to make a deposit on a watch - even something in-demand. I would do it if it was 5% or 10% even, but 100% seems like they want an interest-free source of capital lol
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Old 20 January 2021, 01:58 PM   #51
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I have an experience with WoS, when I was living in NY I purchased few Rolexes with them and build some history. Their deposit policy NEVER make sense, sometimes I had to put down 20%, sometimes 10% and sometimes full deposit. I actually gave a full 40k+ deposit on one watch over a year ago and still on awaiting list for it, its a pretty rare watch so I dont mind but shelling out so much money and waiting is annoying.

P.S. Once they actually even charged me twice for the same purchase! I realized that a week later when was going over my credit card statement so thats that.
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Old 20 January 2021, 05:26 PM   #52
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P.S. Once they actually even charged me twice for the same purchase! I realized that a week later when was going over my credit card statement so thats that.
Must be tough to keep track on all these tens of thousands of dollars purchases :) jets, boats and private villas. A watch double charge might go unnoticed for a while. I know the feeling ;)
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Old 20 January 2021, 08:09 PM   #53
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I think any company demanding a 100% deposit for anything is in severe financial difficulties.
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Old 20 January 2021, 10:14 PM   #54
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Remember when it seemed inconceivable that Lehman could be in trouble?

WoS is no Lehman.

Beware counterparty risk.
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Old 20 January 2021, 11:43 PM   #55
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I would reject such an offer.
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Old 21 January 2021, 07:19 AM   #56
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Some people have mentioned this is how ADs can now borrow at 0% interest, but if their accountants are properly following GAAP then any deposits would be recognized under deferred revenue (a liability on the B.S.). Very different than borrowing from a bank and immediately recognizing an injection of cash as an asset on the balance sheet or having a revolving credit facility.

I would think this would be especially true for WoS considering they are a publicly held company. Mom and pop stores are the ones that would have more wiggle room in how they recognize revenue.
Actually from a balance sheet perspective it would be very similar to borrowing money. In both cases you recognise a liability and an increase in cash on the asset side. Although it would be customer deposits liability, not deferred revenue, since the sale (and final price) is not fixed.

Agree they will not be able to recognise the revenue until the goods are delivered even if it was contracted as a sale, but it is a pretty good working capital management tool, collecting funding for inventory [years] before you have to pay your suppliers for it.


Back on topic - I recently prepaid 100% for a watch that is promised to be delivered by April. I did not put a deposit, but prepaid avoiding any price increase between contract and delivery. But that was with VC boutique and they needed to bring the watch into the country and it was the last of a discounted line.

As others have said - a confirmed timeline is what would make the difference for me in this case.
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Old 21 January 2021, 01:29 PM   #57
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Must be tough to keep track on all these tens of thousands of dollars purchases :) jets, boats and private villas. A watch double charge might go unnoticed for a while. I know the feeling ;)
It was 4k purchase, Omega Speedmaster, just fyi. I realized by the end of that same week when was going through the credit card statements.
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Old 21 January 2021, 03:40 PM   #58
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I have an experience with WoS, when I was living in NY I purchased few Rolexes with them and build some history. Their deposit policy NEVER make sense, sometimes I had to put down 20%, sometimes 10% and sometimes full deposit. I actually gave a full 40k+ deposit on one watch over a year ago and still on awaiting list for it, its a pretty rare watch so I dont mind but shelling out so much money and waiting is annoying.

P.S. Once they actually even charged me twice for the same purchase! I realized that a week later when was going over my credit card statement so thats that.
They hold your $40k for over a year just for a Rolex? How insane! ��
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Old 21 January 2021, 04:12 PM   #59
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It was 4k purchase, Omega Speedmaster, just fyi. I realized by the end of that same week when was going through the credit card statements.
Gotcha was just joking, I might be also a bit overly ocd about checking my CC account often multiple times a day.
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Old 22 January 2021, 04:58 AM   #60
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They hold your $40k for over a year just for a Rolex? How insane! ��
Yes, its for GMT with meteorite dial. They requested a 100% downpayment to be ahead of the line and also guaranteed me I will get it 100%. Its been already a year and few months, I spoke with my rep before the Christmas and he said I should get it before this summer. We will see.
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