Vintage Patek Phillipe & C8 inherited - What exact model

[320Driver]

Hi guys,

I inherited this nice watch from my father, but I don`t know anything about it, cant even find references about what year it is. Seems to be very old judging from the face. And interestingly it reads "Patek Philippe & C8" I have not seen another with the "& C8" addition, only on pocket watches. Anyone here who can tell me a bit about it? Or how I can find out the year or serial number?

Thank you!

[mongrelnomoad]

It's a Golden Ellipse. No idea about the name...

[320Driver]

Thanks. How do I find out what year it is?

Anyone else know about the specialty in "& C8" on the dial?

[ct.matt]

Originally Posted by 320Driver

Thanks. How do I find out what year it is?

Anyone else know about the specialty in "& C8" on the dial?

It’s usually “& Co” on vintage references. The dial might be refinished. If you can get the movement and case number, you can request an archive extract from Patek that will give you all the info you’re seeking. A watchmaker would likely have to take the watch apart though.

[Flex368]

I´d give PP in Munich a call, they´ll be able to assist you.

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by Flex368

I´d give PP in Munich a call, they´ll be able to assist you.

Good idea, I`ll try that

[ts3]

My guess is it is any of 3548, 3648, 3748, or 3848 from the 1970s or 1980s.

Apart from the "& C8" the wide font used for "GENEVE" and the "SWISS MADE" are weird as well. I'd have expected a "Sigma SWISS Sigma" instead.

Have a watch maker / AD remove the case back and you'll know the reference, case number, and movement number. Based on that the Patek Service Center in Munich might be able to tell you when it was manufactured (or tell you to order an Extract from the Archives which will include that info).

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by ts3

My guess is it is any of 3548, 3648, 3748, or 3848 from the 1970s or 1980s.

Apart from the "& C8" the wide font used for "GENEVE" and the "SWISS MADE" are weird as well. I'd have expected a "Sigma SWISS Sigma" instead.

Have a watch maker / AD remove the case back and you'll know the reference, case number, and movement number. Based on that the Patek Service Center in Munich might be able to tell you when it was manufactured (or tell you to order an Extract from the Archives which will include that info).

Thanks for the info. I just got off the phone with Patek in Munich. They don`t want to look into this themselves, but told me to contact Dr. Crott Auctioneers in Mannheim, as they would be experts and would most likely be able to tell me more about it. They did say however that I could to an online "Stammbuchauszug" / archive extract, for a fee, that is after the watch is opened and the numbers are pictured or noted.

[Flex368]

Have you been in contact with PP directly or only with a PP AD in Munich? Hard to believe they direct you to a third party to verify a vintage watch.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by Flex368

Have you been in contact with PP directly or only with a PP AD in Munich? Hard to believe they direct you to a third party to verify a vintage watch.

The only PP salons are in London, Paris and Geneva. Might be an idea for the OP to contact Geneva direct...

[watch-guy.com]

The dial is wrong - bad reprint
I would try and get some one to open up the case to verify movement
Could be an auto ref 3738

Julian

[Flex368]

I wasn´t referring to a Salon but to the official PP service center.

[enjoythemusic]

I'm scratching my head, as something looks... Can you please remove the back and take a clear / clean movement pic and post here.

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by Flex368

Have you been in contact with PP directly or only with a PP AD in Munich? Hard to believe they direct you to a third party to verify a vintage watch.

I talked directly to Deutsche Patek Philippe GmbH in Munich. I guess he recommended the auction house as I mentioned I would like to sell the watch. He says they have most experience with vintage watches and since I am not located in Munich myself he told me I should take it to a local watchmaker that is authorized to work on PP and have him take off the back of the watch to take pictures of the inside, then send these to Dr Crott. He told me not to take it off myself.

[Flex368]

Originally Posted by 320Driver

he told me I should take it to a local watchmaker that is authorized to work on PP

This sounds more like what I was expecting, you left out that part in the initial post.

Do you want to verify the authenticity of the watch or only a valuation in order to sell it?

Frankly speaking if it is a heirloom piece from your father I wouldn´t even think twice about selling it. And if it has been your father´s watch for many years shouldn´t the history be somewhat unquestionable?

[ts3]

Originally Posted by 320Driver

I talked directly to Deutsche Patek Philippe GmbH in Munich. I guess he recommended the auction house as I mentioned I would like to sell the watch. He says they have most experience with vintage watches and since I am not located in Munich myself he told me I should take it to a local watchmaker that is authorized to work on PP and have him take off the back of the watch to take pictures of the inside, then send these to Dr Crott. He told me not to take it off myself.

Makes sense.

If it was a clean 240 powered automatic 3738 w/o issues you could expect meaningful proceeds. If it is a manual 3*48 which is what I think you are not looking at much, especially after a total of around 40% in fees you and the buyer would have to pay to Dr Crott. The issues with the dial will likely make this one a difficult piece to sell for anybody.

Let us know the outcome...

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by Flex368

This sounds more like what I was expecting, you left out that part in the initial post.

Do you want to verify the authenticity of the watch or only a valuation in order to sell it?

Frankly speaking if it is a heirloom piece from your father I wouldn´t even think twice about selling it. And if it has been your father´s watch for many years shouldn´t the history be somewhat unquestionable?

I don´t really have a doubt about it`s authenticity. It`s more about a determination if this is indeed some rare early version of Ellipse and evaluation of the watch since it will be sold for sure. This is just one of many watches I inherited and I can`t keep them all.

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by ts3

Makes sense.

If it was a clean 240 powered automatic 3738 w/o issues you could expect meaningful proceeds. If it is a manual 3*48 which is what I think you are not looking at much, especially after a total of around 40% in fees you and the buyer would have to pay to Dr Crott. The issues with the dial will likely make this one a difficult piece to sell for anybody.

Let us know the outcome...

I`ll find someone to open it, then we should know more. I will keep you guys updated, thanks so far!

[IBDOC]

I’m so curious but nobody ever clarified why it says C8? It has to be a misprint of Co but is it an original mistake, a sloppy service dial or a frankenwatch?

[320Driver]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

I’m so curious but nobody ever clarified why it says C8? It has to be a misprint of Co but is it an original mistake, a sloppy service dial or a frankenwatch?

Actually I found other PP pocket watches with the " &C8" on the face. So this seems to have been a practice at one point in time. I didn't find another Ellipse with it yet though.

[watch-guy.com]

never seen &C8
But I dint collect PW

I do collect vintage and have never seen this on any dial

Still keen to see the movement
Regards

Julian

[MCMartiny]

The "& C8" could be a bad restoration job on a "& Co" dial like the one on the below picture. However, I have never seen a Golden Ellipse with "& Co" on the dial and I thought this logo type was discontinued way before the Ellipse was introduced.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

I’m so curious but nobody ever clarified why it says C8? It has to be a misprint of Co but is it an original mistake, a sloppy service dial or a frankenwatch?

Agreed, they must have had lower standards back then, I would also not be happy with the quality of the stamped logo on the buckle, doesn’t look straight like a child did it. It may be the pictures but the points of the hands don’t look very good either. The 2 and 4 markers look to far away from the edge of the dial, again it could be the pictures. Rare or not for me Patek is about the details, so it’s a no from me. Anyway good luck with the sale OP, and thanks for posting and sharing as we don’t see these very often.

[watch-guy.com]

Would love to know what was found when opened ....


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[watch-guy.com]