something that might serve some to know that have been taken by a vendor

[larryccf]

a lot of attorneys (and i know too many) aren't aware of this - not their fault as this area of law doesn't enjoy a lot of attorneys practicing it.

In the event you have fault with what a vendor delivers, as long as they advertise nationally, whether on the web, in print media or radio/tv, and whether the issue is a faulty or mis-described item, under federal statutes, the court of jurisdiction is the jurisdiction of the purchaser.

Some time back i was basically cheated by a vendor that destroyed a firearm making a suppressor for me. His shop was 1,000 miles away (Atlanta, GA) and i'm in Richmond, VA. Total value of the loss was $3600.

problem was, i knew from being a landlord, if i sued him in Georgia, the trick would be for him to call into the court the morning of the hearing and ask for a continuance. So after flying down, i'd be eating the cost of an unnecessary or wasted flight.

By accident, an attorney who was familiar with the statute i referenced above, alerted me that i could sue him in Richmond, VA and he'd have to respond or he'd loose by default and then it'd simply be a matter of garnishing his bank accounts or whatever property once the judgement had matured 30 days.

I sued him in my local court. He hired a local attorney who filed a motion for a change in venue (ie, move the case to Georgia) - in court my attorney simply showed the judge the statute reference and he denied the motion.

A few days later i got a phone call from the individual indicating he wanted to resolve the "mis-understanding" - my response, overnight me a cashier's check for $4,600 (which included my attorney's fees) and i'd file a dismissal. Turned out he had applied for a mortgage and didn't want a judgement showing up on his credit report.

But the point is - having the court of jurisdiction local to you, puts you at an advantage - ie, he'll have to hire local council and usually employ one local to him to find an attorney in your jurisdiction, so he's supporting two attorneys - not fun. 2nd, at some point he'll have to appear in your court to defend himself if he feels he's in the right. The advantage, cost wise will be to the purchaser.

FWIW

[springer]

If you suffer a loss or damage by an individual or company from a state which isn't located in your resident state, the long-arm statues are definitely your friend.

[tkc324]

Noted. Thank you.

[BrazenC5]

what is the specific statute you're referencing?

Originally Posted by larryccf

a lot of attorneys (and i know too many) aren't aware of this - not their fault as this area of law doesn't enjoy a lot of attorneys practicing it.

In the event you have fault with what a vendor delivers, as long as they advertise nationally, whether on the web, in print media or radio/tv, and whether the issue is a faulty or mis-described item, under federal statutes, the court of jurisdiction is the jurisdiction of the purchaser.

Some time back i was basically cheated by a vendor that destroyed a firearm making a suppressor for me. His shop was 1,000 miles away (Atlanta, GA) and i'm in Richmond, VA. Total value of the loss was $3600.

problem was, i knew from being a landlord, if i sued him in Georgia, the trick would be for him to call into the court the morning of the hearing and ask for a continuance. So after flying down, i'd be eating the cost of an unnecessary or wasted flight.

By accident, an attorney who was familiar with the statute i referenced above, alerted me that i could sue him in Richmond, VA and he'd have to respond or he'd loose by default and then it'd simply be a matter of garnishing his bank accounts or whatever property once the judgement had matured 30 days.

I sued him in my local court. He hired a local attorney who filed a motion for a change in venue (ie, move the case to Georgia) - in court my attorney simply showed the judge the statute reference and he denied the motion.

A few days later i got a phone call from the individual indicating he wanted to resolve the "mis-understanding" - my response, overnight me a cashier's check for $4,600 (which included my attorney's fees) and i'd file a dismissal. Turned out he had applied for a mortgage and didn't want a judgement showing up on his credit report.

But the point is - having the court of jurisdiction local to you, puts you at an advantage - ie, he'll have to hire local council and usually employ one local to him to find an attorney in your jurisdiction, so he's supporting two attorneys - not fun. 2nd, at some point he'll have to appear in your court to defend himself if he feels he's in the right. The advantage, cost wise will be to the purchaser.

FWIW

[larryccf]

Originally Posted by BrazenC5

what is the specific statute you're referencing?

I don't know it - when i told my local attorney what the other attorney had indicated, he found it that very morning and called me with it, but i didn't write down any statute reference

it shouldn't take an attorney long to find it. Or if you have access to the Pacer system, PM me and i'll give how the lawsuit was styled and you can look up the case

[frank4242]

Noted, nice one..

[77T]

Originally Posted by larryccf

In the event you have fault with what a vendor delivers, as long as they advertise nationally, whether on the web, in print media or radio/tv, and whether the issue is a faulty or mis-described item, under federal statutes, the court of jurisdiction is the jurisdiction of the purchaser.

First, since we are dealing with a federal court, any attorney will begin with Rule 4K of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP). That is where a court decides to exercise Personal Jurisdiction over its defendant. Not a statute per se... This isn’t a secret to any attorney earning a living in federal courts.

One word of caution...be careful what you ask for...some federal districts have their own radical idea of justice and what constitutes consumer rights. In your case, that karma is with you.

If you live in one that is uber conservative and industry-friendly, prevailing could be more difficult for torts under certain circumstances...


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[Harry49]

Will keep that in mind...
NOTED!!!

[larryccf]

Originally Posted by 77T

First, since we are dealing with a federal court, any attorney will begin with Rule 4K of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP). That is where a court decides to exercise Personal Jurisdiction over its defendant. Not a statute per se... This isn’t a secret to any attorney earning a living in federal courts.

One word of caution...be careful what you ask for...some federal districts have their own radical idea of justice and what constitutes consumer rights. In your case, that karma is with you.

If you live in one that is uber conservative and industry-friendly, prevailing could be more difficult for torts under certain circumstances...


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Will keep your advice in mind, but my experience in Federal Court has been to avoid, if only for the expense level that seems to accompany action in Fed Courts. When i sued the vendor it was in local civil court, not federal court

my entire attorney's cost (at the time) was $900 as we only had one appearance at the hearing to try the motion. When the motion to move the venue to Georgia was denied, the defendant's atty indicated he wasn't prepared to try the case then and a date was set for the following month. It was loosing that motion that brought the vendor to his senses - plus the fact that i had a witness, one of my employees, that had opened the package when it first arrived and defendant's attorney had a chance to assess him. My witness looked like and was "Chris Cringle" from that 1940s movie - his credibility was unapproachable. I suspect the local atty he had hired had advised him to settle this matter.

As i understood it (I am NOT an attorney) my atty was simply using the fed stature to argue against the motion to change venue, and obviously he was successful

[tekno]

I’m curious what kind of suppressor it was, was it a hunting rifle/or a MG years ago. I’m a 07/02 myself.

I can’t stand modern suppressors, they all look like space shuttle parts, they remind me of gas station knives. I like knurled tubes that do the job.


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[larryccf]

it was a pistol suppressor for a P7M8. I actually mfgr'd suppressors until i retired. (ccfa.com). Before i started mfgring them, i had SWR (the previous or founding owner, not the current) sell me on the idea of a suppressed P7M8 so i sent him one.

Here's how sloppy a job he did - a) he, for whatever reason, washed it with hydraulic fluid or kerosene, let it drain a bit i assume in the sun, (rather than wash it in solvent) then spray painted it with Krylon black paint for a black finish.

When it arrived the box was dripping with oil and heavily stained. When my helper unpackaged it, and unwrapped the bubble wrap, big pcs of paint, maybe the size of a silver dollar peeled off the can stuck to the bubble wrap - so i assume he had put it in the bubble wrap before paint had totally cured.

Then the real issue reared it's ugly head. He had said he could thread the existing barrel. Well from what we found he couldn't - the first 3/8" of the barrel had faint threading that he had turned off with a lathe, then using what i assume was a dremel, opened the muzzle opening in the slide so the tailpc of the can could thread further on the barrel where he cut more threading.

But there wasn't 1.5 turns of thread engagement. 2nd, the hole he had dremeled in the face of the slide was an non-symetrical oval - and you'd swear a drunken martian had done it at night without turning the lights on.

3rd issue - the can sounded like you were firing a 32 cal without a silencer - when i asked him "was it possible he left a baffle out" - his response was that the P7M8 was not a good platform for suppression - and i know today it isn't, but he had initially suggested it. I guess he wanted to learn on my dime and pistol.

I found out later from a friend of his that was doing his machining work for him, that he had a small lathe in his carport that he hadn't learned to use.

If you know who i'm talking about, he patented (though he didn't invent it) the grip pod and sold, from the DOD commercial contractor reports on their web, about $30 million dollars worth to Uncle Sam.

But Karma is a bitch and it's has come home to roost on him

FWIW

[offrdmania]

I may be missing something here but what does this have to do with vintage watches?

[tekno]

My question was off topic, sorry. The rest was GTG. I’ll take my consequences. I can edit.


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[jaisonline]

Thanks for this topic. I hope to never need to reference it due to an issue with a out of state vendor but it good info to know.

Thread subscribed.

[miamiclay]

Originally Posted by larryccf

As i understood it (I am NOT an attorney) my atty was simply using the fed stature to argue against the motion to change venue, and obviously he was successful

Without knowing any further specifics (and with the huge caveats that a) this is only from memory, and b) virtually every concept here is conditioned on loooong lists of “if/and/but”s), I’d expect that your attorney cited your own state’s “long arm” statute.

If one meets the requirements to file a suit in federal court, federal courts have nationwide jurisdiction. State courts generally do not have jurisdiction over residents of any other state, but — If a resident of State A does business in State B, and causes a loss or injury there, State B’s “long arm” statute may give State B’s court jurisdiction over that State A resident.

I’m happy your matter was resolved - Sometimes the biggest problem with suing a non-resident can be not in gaining jurisdiction, or even in winning the suit and getting a judgment, but rather in actually collecting on that judgment. (Winning the suit does not make any money appear.) One may have to “domesticate” State B’s judgment in State A before even beginning the further actions to collect (e.g., garnishing wages or bank accounts).

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by BrazenC5

what is the specific statute you're referencing?

Helpful info for those in the US.

But seriously, spelling losing ‘loosing’ - gets me everytime :D

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Helpful info for those in the US.

But seriously, spelling losing ‘loosing’ - gets me everytime :D

From the man who thinks 'alot' is a single word:

"think the market has cooled down alot."

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...9#post10313579

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

From the man who thinks 'alot' is a single word:

"think the market has cooled down alot."

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...9#post10313579

Amazing attempt at an insult. Are you going to critique my lack of capitalisation at the start of that sentence too? or perhaps I should have spelt capitalisation with a "z" instead of a "s" in the prior? or maybe I should have spelt "spelled" because it's more recogniseable?

yeah, in case you didn't pick up, my original response was in gratitude for the info with a light-hearted reminder in tow - hardly a swipe, at the OP.

Oh, btw, why do you keep PM'ing me? unless you're looking for a date, may be stop?

[larryccf]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Helpful info for those in the US.

But seriously, spelling losing ‘loosing’ - gets me everytime :D

at 72 yrs young, and considering the meds i'm on, if that's the only mistake i make, i'm a happy camper....getting old ain't for pansies

but your correction is duly noted

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by larryccf

at 72 yrs young, and considering the meds i'm on, if that's the only mistake i make, i'm a happy camper....getting old ain't for pansies

but your correction is duly noted

Its OK, apparently he was only joking

[tekno]

I do think hearing the story and how bad the issue was helps put the story in context. Some people’s idea of “ruin” something is another persons “minor issue”. The item was in fact ruined.

Luckily the guys I have dealt with here, and ones they referred me to are all great. I do see some things advertised at times I wonder about, but not by the guys that frequent this forum.


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[larryccf]

the only reason this guy was able to "take" me, i had given him a lot of trust as we had a friend in common. I did not realize how much of his description was complete BS. And he was an up and coming suppressor mfgr, and i was selling quite a bit of his product - i'm talking $15k - $20k per order and prepaying 50% with the order (i knew he was hurting for funds and would need the funds to pay for some of the work he subbed out). I thought the prepayment would generate some loyalty. And our friend in common told me he really appreciated the prepayment.

In fact, i found out later, it generated jealousy - he bad mouthed me to a customer of mine who had bought one of his suppressors from me and and needed some servicing for the suppressor, even telling the customer what my wholesale cost was, but obviously neglecting to tell him how much i was buying per order to qualify for that wholesale.

Extremely short sighted individual and it cost him in the short run.

[mobster600]

Interesting info

[RobW]

Originally Posted by larryccf

the only reason this guy was able to "take" me, i had given him a lot of trust as we had a friend in common. I did not realize how much of his description was complete BS. And he was an up and coming suppressor mfgr, and i was selling quite a bit of his product - i'm talking $15k - $20k per order and prepaying 50% with the order (i knew he was hurting for funds and would need the funds to pay for some of the work he subbed out). I thought the prepayment would generate some loyalty. And our friend in common told me he really appreciated the prepayment.

In fact, i found out later, it generated jealousy - he bad mouthed me to a customer of mine who had bought one of his suppressors from me and and needed some servicing for the suppressor, even telling the customer what my wholesale cost was, but obviously neglecting to tell him how much i was buying per order to qualify for that wholesale.

Extremely short sighted individual and it cost him in the short run.

The discussion of buying and selling gun suppressors and the personal drama that goes with it is wildly off-topic and inappropriate. I mean, really, silencers making an appearance as a topic on a watch forum?

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[harry in montreal]

Thanks for posting this. I will try to explain the context to other members that think this is off topic. But it’s not, not at all.

Working with the US mail is amazing....it’s fast, cheap and terrific. However, when an issue arises your story above can help us with a roadmap to getting a reasonable resolution. We all end up with a turd in a fedex box eventually.

[larryccf]

harry in montreal: the US Mail is impressive until you have to file a loss claim and discover the delays, the lack of support behind the marketing "mask" US Postal has created. Total discombobulation.

I've experienced the Canadian postal svc (got a camp in NS) and found it professional. Same for most of the western european postal svcs.

My local PO - there can be 5 clerks behind the counter and 3 customers and there'll be a line waiting for svc. They spend more effort in avoiding completing a task than actually getting it done.