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Old 21 April 2008, 02:47 AM   #31
Roger
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GMT 11 "misprint"

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have just recently purchased a 16710 Coke GMT Master from an AD with a serial D6***** brand new as opposed to pre owned and the dial most definately has the parallel stick numbers and not the roman numerals.

This would mean that if the rumour is correct, then the 3186 movement was installed earlier than the "Z" series.
Accurracy is +2 sec per day which is identical to my dd but better than the Explorer 1 which is +4 secs.

All 3 watches are totally consistent with the same level of gain each day no matter what the circumstances.

3186 in a D series GMT11? now that would be nice.

Rgds
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Old 21 April 2008, 03:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
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3186 in a D series GMT11? now that would be nice.

Rgds
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This sounds highly unlikely - but who cares? You have a beautiful watch
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Old 21 April 2008, 03:22 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger View Post
Just to throw a spanner in the works, I have just recently purchased a 16710 Coke GMT Master from an AD with a serial D6***** brand new as opposed to pre owned and the dial most definately has the parallel stick numbers and not the roman numerals.

This would mean that if the rumour is correct, then the 3186 movement was installed earlier than the "Z" series.
Accurracy is +2 sec per day which is identical to my dd but better than the Explorer 1 which is +4 secs.

All 3 watches are totally consistent with the same level of gain each day no matter what the circumstances.

3186 in a D series GMT11? now that would be nice.

Rgds
Roger
I have also seen "D" serial GMT II's with the "I I" font.

BTW, if you want to make the stick font and use it in your post you can click on "arial narrow" in the font options.
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Old 21 April 2008, 03:46 AM   #34
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only way way to tell

crank open the caseback!

don't bother, enjoy the watch
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Old 21 April 2008, 05:21 AM   #35
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One of my other GMT's was a D serial with stick font, and it did not pass the wiggle test.
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Old 21 April 2008, 06:45 AM   #36
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It seems then, as we all agree, that the only way is to the case
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Old 24 April 2008, 04:19 AM   #37
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Did anyone open their cases yet?

Interested to know, Thanks
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Old 24 April 2008, 04:30 AM   #38
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....Maybe cause YOU have a dirty mind Bo ???????

I mean, who would ever think this way??
lol!!! I think he is.
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Old 24 April 2008, 05:33 AM   #39
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This is crazy. A little face change has me thinking of ways to justify this purchase!!!!!
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Old 24 April 2008, 08:37 AM   #40
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Don't think this is going to help anyone, but I have a z serial GMT ll misprint dial (pepsi) that fails the wiggle test indicating a 3185 movement. I also have a z serial Explorer II (white) with the rolexrolexrolex rehaut that passes the wiggle test indicating a 3186 movement. The setting of the time, including the 24 hour hand, has a completely different feel between the two wathces. I have not opened the case on either watch nor do I intend to. This would indicate that not all of the GMT ll misprint dials have a 3186 movement. Whether the GMT has a 3185 or 3186, it is still one of the best watches I own, whether a Rolex or other.
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Old 24 April 2008, 08:48 AM   #41
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Whether the GMT has a 3185 or 3186, it is still one of the best watches I own, whether a Rolex or other.
No doubt
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Old 24 April 2008, 09:01 AM   #42
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rats, this is like.....

this is like wondering if you have the golden ticket in a Wonka bar... The sad part is, I just had RCS regulate my watch as it was running 10 seconds fast. This was just days before I found out about this movement issue so I didn't ask them. Oh well, I guess I can wait another 5 years... I've got a Z with the non-roman numeral IIs, so maybe I got a golden ticket?
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Old 24 April 2008, 09:10 AM   #43
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I have a late Z with no wiggle but I think the only way to truly know is take a look and I'm not willing to have that done as I am very happy with my 16710 and it really doesn't matter to me which movement is in it as long as Rolex did it.
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Old 24 April 2008, 11:01 AM   #44
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Good Info To Know. Thanks.
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Old 30 June 2008, 10:15 AM   #45
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does anyone know for certain which serial number ranges have the new movements?
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Old 30 June 2008, 10:24 AM   #46
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My Z74xxxx-serial Pepsi has the New booklet but a 3185 calibre movement.
I'm pretty sure that Z-97xxxx or later numbers have 3186.
So it seems that Rolex ran out of the booklets b4 it ran out of the 3185!!
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Old 30 June 2008, 10:26 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AL7273 View Post
does anyone know for certain which serial number ranges have the new movements?
All M's and all late Z's (don't have the list onhand, but there's one on timezone).

Wiggle test (if done properly) is 100% conclusive.
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Old 30 June 2008, 10:48 AM   #48
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The Hunt

Ok, I think I can post here.
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Old 30 June 2008, 10:52 AM   #49
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I was trying to say that I am new to the forum and my posting limits are very strange.

Anyway, I am on the hunt for an M-series GMT ii.

Originally I was thinking of just getting a vintage GMT but the M is the way for me.

I wonder how many they made?
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Old 30 June 2008, 11:42 AM   #50
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Except that you can get all the "old" booklets you want from RSC N.Y.






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So it seems that Rolex ran out of the booklets b4 it ran out of the 3185!!
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Old 30 June 2008, 11:44 AM   #51
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Wiggle, schmiggle. Either way the GMT II is a great freakin' watch, period!
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Old 30 June 2008, 06:42 PM   #52
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GMT dials sometimes sport different fonts. This "anomaly" is in fact fairly normal....

See these comparison pics:


(Pic originally posted by "GMTcrazy").

Then note this related pic:


(Pic by (Jo)hannes "Baptiste" Kern; oysterword.de).

The latter pic derives from a time long BEFORE the current "Cal. 3186 controversy" started.

Imho, the dial variations must be seen in the light of Rolex having bought the dial supplier Beyeler in 2001 as yet another step in the direction of become 100 % self-supplying. As Al once stated, quoting from a TimeZone article:

""Of all the independent manufacturers, Rolex has gone the furthest towards to fulfilling the old American model of self-contained industrial watchmaking. Over the past several years Rolex started the pattern of acquire-and-consolidate which other independent manufactures have only begun to follow over the past year or two. In a very logical step-by-step process, Rolex purchased most of its primary suppliers, including bracelet manufacturer Gay Frres, dial manufacturer Beyeler & Cie, and crown manufacturer Boninchi SA."

Therefore, the "II" versus ll font does not necessarily indicate the usage of Cals. 3185 vs. 3186. The only and ultimate test is to have the caseback removed and inspect the Cal. # engraved on the bridge plus inspecting if the hairspring is blued or not.
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Old 1 July 2008, 07:03 AM   #53
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Thank you, This was such a big help!!

When I bought this watch the AD told me it was an older Rolex case with the new 3186 movement. So it turns out my GMT has a Stick ll rather than the roman II. So it does seem to be true that there was a limited amount of GMT's that went out with the new movement's before they released the ceramic black bezel GMT II's with the 3186.

this link : http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm

Helps out a lot

I seam to learn something new every day on TRF.

Bellow are some Macro pics of my timepiece along with my manual. I'm thinkin I have the new one, because there's mention of the new ceramic bezel.






Quote:
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I have some examples and info on this posted at http://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.htm

-Sheldon
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Old 21 July 2008, 12:10 AM   #54
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Good morning,I have two new one with atick and both cames with new owner manual (ceramic)
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Old 21 July 2008, 12:51 PM   #55
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Except that you can get all the "old" booklets you want from RSC N.Y.
I need ones for my explorer II since I bought it from Tourneau and came with box but no books.
Wonder why Rolex put new booklet with my GMT-II
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Old 27 July 2008, 06:07 AM   #56
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What is the deal with this watch,no ad has it and nobody is selling it,not ebay,not craiglist,what is nthe price now?Thanl you
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Old 27 July 2008, 06:59 AM   #57
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Quote:
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I think our discussions on the 3185/6 are futile without Rolex disclosing their production reasons. While not trying to sound negative, I'm not quite sure about Billy's motive in writing those 2 posts (I did read it like 2 weeks ago). It's plausible but I would give more credence if it were posted by other trusted TRF experts.

P.S. I did get the new GMT2c booklet for my M series pepsi.
Well I'm looking inside "R1 and R3" for the uninitiated these are rolex's reference books for parts, the rotors are two diffrent numbers, also there is only one part number for the new GMT IIc's rotor. I though the 3186 was a somewhat different in thickness from the 3185, which would necessitate a diffrent part # for the winding weight if the 3186 was used in the old case. Wouldn't be the first time rolex did something like this though supposedly they were puttiong parachrome Hairsprings in the daytonas as early as 2000. I don't think the fonts designate which watch has it though, I think a certain serial range will determine it.
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Old 27 July 2008, 07:06 AM   #58
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Yes, I opened the case, I did the wiggle, I looked at the II straight or Roman but the ultimate test was to open the case..so I did.....3186......Oh, and the booklet is the old one
Pics... I gotta see this. If this is the case I will be hitting the FS forums.
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Old 27 July 2008, 09:56 AM   #59
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16710 New From AD

Milly, if you want an 16710, PM me.


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What is the deal with this watch,no ad has it and nobody is selling it,not ebay,not craiglist,what is nthe price now?Thanl you
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Old 27 July 2008, 12:02 PM   #60
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No Thank you,I have been keeping two
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