When is a Luxury Watch Not a Luxury Watch?

[HogwldFLTR]

Seems like in the Rolex topsy turvy world, when it's made of precious metals. Here steel is as valuable as gold maybe even more so. Something is wrong with the picture.

[Shdrolex]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Seems like in the Rolex topsy turvy world, when it's made of precious metals. Here steel is as valuable as gold maybe even more so. Something is wrong with the picture.

Its a pure luxury watch now which can be used as a tool watch if required. Just an added advantage. Its men’s jewelry.
95% of Watch fanatics on here do not use it for its actual purpose. Just like 99% of people with ferraris and lambos dont use if for racing.
Back in the days, Rolex were Pure tool watches used in its specified environment. Diving, spelunking etc. Now a days its a status symbol. Thats what Rolex is synonymous with. The “ I made it, Success “ sysmbol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Loevhagen]

"When is A not A - but B?"

[jsausley]

When it's cheap. Like under $500.

So never, for a Rolex.

[KBM]

These are all jewelry. The ability to perform a certain task doesn't change that. Telling ourselves a 10k usd 6 digit sub is a tool watch is just something we do to maintain that adventurous feeling which turns our gears.

[Saaci]

When it’s ajar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VicLeChic]

100% luxury, the tool charade is just an excuse to justify the purchase, "oh but it's a very sturdy and capable watch". Who's going to put a 12k watch in seawater, 1% of owners perhaps? Trying to rationalize luxury is a fool's game. A $300 Seiko will do the same job and last just as long. Honestly, I think owners lie to themselves with the tool thing.

[MrNemo]

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

[Snow-Dweller]

MrNemo’s post is both well written and well thought out.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

One of the best posts I’ve read recently. Well-articulated- thank you !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Little machines]

Thank you for the post . Well written and it accurately describes what I do think of but you did a much better job describing what Rolex is.

[hbombkid]

It’s all opinion if Rolex is luxury

Rolex will always be luxury for me, but can be used as a tool if necessary. I consider any watch really over 2k luxury. Some might have a lower value say 1000, 500 etc.

Now flip it someone might consider 20k and above / PM watches luxury it’s all opinion.

[Pballkm21]

I agree on many levels @mrnemo. Love the tudor reference as well, as that is 100% the AD go to now

"We can order you the pepsi tudor if youd like"

[g_luck]

I remember a time when you couldn't purchase a Day Date anywhere within 6 months. Times have changed and they will most likely change again. Flavor of the month.

[Phrank]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

<SNIP>

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

Well written and I enjoyed reading this....thanks.

[Tom5518]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

When is a Luxury Watch Not a Luxury Watch?

When 'ol Tommy here can sport one.....

One of the most brilliant things my dad taught me years ago about girls was the best one is always the next one. It's always a little bit better when you haven't had it yet. The same could be said about watches......

Originally Posted by Shdrolex

Now a days its a status symbol. Thats what Rolex is synonymous with. The “ I made it, Success “ sysmbol.

That officially makes me a poser.....

[LazySumday]

Originally Posted by VicLeChic

100% luxury, the tool charade is just an excuse to justify the purchase, "oh but it's a very sturdy and capable watch". Who's going to put a 12k watch in seawater, 1% of owners perhaps? Trying to rationalize luxury is a fool's game. A $300 Seiko will do the same job and last just as long. Honestly, I think owners lie to themselves with the tool thing.

Agree %.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wrist King]

A 12k watch is readily able to go in seawater, its part of the price !

Sent from my SM-G9730 using Tapatalk

[Vince KSA]

Great post Mr Nemo.

Considering that you've been on this forum for 9 years you don't post that often, but when you do.. boy your posts are well thought out and expertly articulated.

[2sInHot]

Excellent read and some interesting points MrNemo




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Totoro]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

Post of the year.

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[AK797]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

A good post overall but I don't think the reason for the popularity of SS models is due to this shift, social media has made people more boastful and conspicuous than ever because their audience has now increased ten fold. The reason SS are hot is due to rising prices and exclusivity, before PMs had this prestige because of their high prices, but you get more kudos for buying a hard to find piece than an expensive piece, and on top of this resale is expected to climb on the rare piece as opposed to the PM, so it gets a further boost, and now that demand has overshot supply by so much we are seeing this phenomenon played out across a number of SS watches and reflected in the on the face of it ridiculous but often asked question here - should I buy a SS or a PM at the same price?

As with fine art, rarity trumps everything.

[peterpl]

IF I was offered the same SS watch vs a Full Gold version there is no effin way in hell I'm buying the SS piece if it was the same price.

SS is way way over hyped and 90% of the guys buying SS are buying to make money and feed the hype to flip. I know so many people now buying SS pieces and trying to make money even guys that never had worn a watch in their entire life or not even interested in watches at all. They are just going into any AD and shop or asking grays for a good deal to then resell. That it all.

Buying SS and paying PM prices is a suckers game for the same watch.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by Wrist King

A 12k watch is readily able to go in seawater, its part of the price !

Sent from my SM-G9730 using Tapatalk

Exactly - it’s what they are designed for

[mmmmp]

Excellent and well written post. The 'crack' about DD / DJ's appealing to older buyers, I could have done without but I respect your opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to compose that piece.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

I'm not so certain about this. I work with many from Asia with relatively low pay and expensive German automobiles. They will buy watches they can afford and many times gold in color. As far as ranking of priorities, cars are number one. Consider that the luxury cars in general depreciate very quickly making them more affordable than Rolex watches for example.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

Nouveau Riche is very popular and even ruling in our culture. I'd say there is zero chance that most are concerned about appearing as such.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

I kind of disagree. The steel watch is a unicorn when it comes to Rolex. Difficult to get due to high demand as you point out below.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

Being privately owned affords Rolex privacy. Very few people in the world would imagine them as a tax free organization. As an aside, really it's an unfair advantage for them in the market place.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

"I want a Rollie, Rollie, Rollie," sure conjures up images of old men on yachts. Almost all Rolex watches can be worn anywhere with anything, IMHO.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

Maybe true on the other hand there's always the paying double the price approach that seems to be popular. Frankly I doubt Uncle Joe having won some fast money would care whether it's a DJ or a GMT.

Originally Posted by MrNemo

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

Right, second or third tier mass produced product manufacturer appearing as the "best." More topsy turvyism. They are only the best at pushing their elitist agenda. Regardless, thanks for putting together your response!!!!

Originally Posted by AK797

A good post overall but I don't think the reason for the popularity of SS models is due to this shift, social media has made people more boastful and conspicuous than ever because their audience has now increased ten fold. The reason SS are hot is due to rising prices and exclusivity, before PMs had this prestige because of their high prices, but you get more kudos for buying a hard to find piece than an expensive piece, and on top of this resale is expected to climb on the rare piece as opposed to the PM, so it gets a further boost, and now that demand has overshot supply by so much we are seeing this phenomenon played out across a number of SS watches and reflected in the on the face of it ridiculous but often asked question here - should I buy a SS or a PM at the same price?

As with fine art, rarity trumps everything.

I 100% agree with this.

Originally Posted by mmmmp

Excellent and well written post. The 'crack' about DD / DJ's appealing to older buyers, I could have done without but I respect your opinion.

Thanks for taking the time to compose that piece.

Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk

I also agree with this regarding the image of older consumers buying PM pieces. Face it, PM prices are too expensive for most and lack the upside of popular appeal mainly for that reason; that's why older consumers are associated with them. The ability to sell a watch for twice its price in general has limits based on the msrp of the watch. Only the rarest PM watches uptrade, think Rainbow Daytona. Most of those allured by the steel pieces will take notice of PM pieces when they see them. Here for example when members post their gold Sub or GMT images they are definitely noticed.

I suspect one of the reason that the SS pieces go relatively unheralded in the world outside of the forum is that there are just so many knock offs. It's hard to tell the real from the fake at a casual glance. It's almost as hard in some cases to tell with a more in depth inspection unless one knows what to look at. The abundance of fakes takes away from the aura of luxury, imho. No wonder Rolex fights so hard to enforce copyright laws.

[red1108nyc]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

Are you the chief marketing officer of Rolex? Awesome post

[teck21]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

Indeed, I’d go so far as to suggest anyone disagreeing materially with the content here is either truly not ‘getting it’, or simply being contrarian for its own sake.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

Seems like in the Rolex topsy turvy world, when it's made of precious metals. Here steel is as valuable as gold maybe even more so. Something is wrong with the picture.

More people can afford a 10k to 20k watch than a 30k to 50k watch.

[glamorama]

Originally Posted by MrNemo

Luxury goods are purchased by individuals who wish to disassociate themselves from the masses. Emerging markets and certain wealthy nations seem to culturally prefer goods that leave no question about their wealth and social status. In more conservative countries or more mature markets, luxury can be a statement about taste or a desire to be part of a certain group. The underlying motivator for consumption of luxury goods is prestige.

The reason you are seeing stainless models going for more than precious metals is because there is a shift in global attitude away from conspicuous consumption (as in, "I bought this shiny, yellow, and bejeweled watch to prove to you that I am better than you") towards status consumption (as in, "I can afford the best, but I purchase what I like because I like it, not to impress others").

What's curious about this shift is, status consumption is now being used as a replacement for conspicuous consumption, because "stealth wealth" or "good taste" is often reserved for those with more prestige than the Nouveau riche, and god-forbid we admit to others that we are not "old money." Therefore, many are learning that being subtle can be more prestigious and make you appear not only successful but also sophisticated (as you share photos that say "Me and my Batman taking it easy on deck 18!!" on Instagram).

A stainless steel luxury watch is a conservative choice, because it will transmit your status and taste to those who know what it is without drawing negative attention from those who don't. A gold watch with diamonds may get you attention, but not always the kind you desire. There are, of course, plenty of people who have exuberant or eccentric personalities, and loud or playful watches are a great fit for them; you couldn't even imagine them wearing a stainless watch.

The problem is, if you play the luxury game too safely, then you end up with a Grand Seiko that is too stealthy, and you've stumbled into a new category - "unabashed watch enthusiast." And maybe your total disregard of Grand Seiko depreciation is your personal statement of luxury.

Of course, it's all fiction. Most people are never thinking about us or our watches. The people who made it to the other side of success mountain- people the masses attempt to emulate without having ever visited the other side- are typically not impressed by what they find. When you've reached the end of the book and it's just an empty back cover, what do you do? When everyone respects you, who is left to impress?

That realization seems to give those who have reached the apex of their chosen fields the freedom to create an entirely new definition of success. Luxury and happiness for them are completely custom and personal, whether it's an alpaca farm or traveling the world on a trimaran. A common epiphany seems to be acknowledging that the biggest luxury of all is having the freedom to be left alone and the time to enjoy it.

Quality is something that can be measured, but luxury exists only in our collective consciousness. It is only as meaningful and valuable as we allow it to be. Rolex may be around forever, but there are countless luxury brands that meant something in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s that have already been forgotten.

Rolexes are nice, but they're not selling for $10K over MSRP in the gray market because they're nice. It's because they are advertising on behalf of you. Rolex is recognized in every country. They have signs in every major airport, in every high-end mall. They sponsor some of the greatest sports events in the world and invite impressive athletes - even in obscure niches - to wear their watches, and those watches are typically stainless sports models.

For a company that spends so much on marketing, they are also somehow mysterious, sealed-off, and quiet. That's quiet an accomplishment for a company that manufactures so many products each year. They are so good at advertising and playing the long game that they don't even tell you what a Rolex means anymore, they just put the name out there and associate it with the best, and then the brains of wide-eyed teenagers, middle managers, professionals, and entrepreneurs fill in the gaps of what Rolex means to them.

But even the names and history of the traditionally stainless models come into play as the new generation of buyers emerges. Talk about strategically stirring emotions since the very beginning. Submariner? Like James bond? Explorer? Like Edmund Hillary? Sea-Dweller? Like James Cameron? GMT-Master? You mean like pilots from the Golden Age of air transportation? Even the nicknames - Hulk, Batman, etc. It instantly makes you feel strong, tough, adventurous. I expect many people want to be in that club, rather than "Day-Date" "DateJust" "Pearlmaster" "Cellini" club. When I think of the Day-Date or DateJust (and I love them - I've owned a dozen of them), I think of grandpa, Eisenhower, and Castro. The stainless sports models are still fresh and modern, even with fairly minimal cosmetic changes over half a century. The gold and two-tone models seem to suffer, because they have this attachment to a different era. The gold and TT Subs always pops into my head when I think about either 1980s yuppies or pop stars, and in the 90s, it seemed to be the de-facto watch worn by retired men on boats. For me at least, none of the stainless models conjure that kind of baggage. They're also more flexible, because you can wear them anywhere- the office, on the weekend, with a suit, with a bathing suit, etc.

And by buying a stainless sports model, you're not only showing the world that you're in great company and have good taste, you're showing others that you have enough passion to actually acquire one. Yes, even the normies are starting to hear about it, ever since Uncle Joe won $10K at the slots and stormed out of the little Rolex store at Caesars and screamed, "Whelp, they said my money is no good there! I'm calling corporate!"

That is perhaps where Rolex is heading. Now that they are becoming difficult to acquire, a Rolex is not only a statement of good taste and a symbol of success, but it will also signify that its wearer is passionate, because it takes passion to wait patiently, search frantically, or spend recklessly. Rolex is reasserting itself as "the best" and they are such a powerful cultural and economic powerhouse that they have the freedom to define what "the best" means. And whatever they decide that is, that is what people will believe.

And sir, we're all out of Submariners... may I interest you in this Tudor?

Very well said, thoughtful analysis of the situation.