The Official Formula One Thread!

[Dr. Robert]

Forza Ferrari!

[Dr.Brian]

Vettel seems to be crumbing under the pressure of his soon to be #1 driver partner.
Great race. Max had a nice run up from the back, but that was lost in the coverage of the top 4. I thought Valteri might pip him in that lay lap for some real drama, but maybe next time.
I wonder how long Sebastian will keep going if he's no longer a contender? I don't see him driving with Kimi again pushing in the midfield.
I think Hulk is racing for his life out there to seal a seat at Haas.


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[sillo]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

Vettel is just an embarrassment.

I think that’s a little harsh. Vettel has more than proved himself and he may have lost his edge, but “embarrassment?” He’d easily outdrive 90% of the field still. He crushed Kimi their entire time together at Ferrari and everyone still has a hard on for him.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

Well solid victory by Leclerc. Kept both Mercedes behind him and handled the huge pressure from Hamilton.
Absolute top class driver. Vettel is just an embarrassment.

LEC made mistakes that didn’t cost him the win. VET made 2 bigger ones that did ruin any chance to win.

Originally Posted by sillo38

I think that’s a little harsh.

I agree in general, but his own interview indicated 1st error was embarrassing (the spin). The 2nd error caused a penalty and cost him plus Stroll damage.




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[1st amg]

My cousin who is Italian and living in Italy, called me from the podium face time while they sang the Italian national anthem, he swore he said he felt the ground shaking. Incredible


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[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by sillo38

I think that’s a little harsh. Vettel has more than proved himself and he may have lost his edge, but “embarrassment?” He’d easily outdrive 90% of the field still. He crushed Kimi their entire time together at Ferrari and everyone still has a hard on for him.

I’ve lost count on how many mistakes Vettel has done that cost him victories in the last few seasons.
For some reason he seems to be master of spinning out on a clean track.
When one has achieved 4 WDC then there are high expectations around him.

[RobearH]

Originally Posted by sillo38

I think that’s a little harsh. Vettel has more than proved himself and he may have lost his edge, but “embarrassment?” He’d easily outdrive 90% of the field still. He crushed Kimi their entire time together at Ferrari and everyone still has a hard on for him.

After the way Vettel F’d over Webber he deserves all the hate he gets. Adrian Newey had more to do with Vettels 4 World Championship then Vettel himself.

Vettel doesn’t compare to Hamilton who won his championships with multiple manufacturers and is competitive every year. If Vettel could actually drive a good car fast and consistent he should have won last years championship and thats why Ferrari brought in LeClerc.

[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by RobearH

After the way Vettel F’d over Webber he deserves all the hate he gets. Adrian Newey had more to do with Vettels 4 World Championship then Vettel himself.

Vettel doesn’t compare to Hamilton who won his championships with multiple manufacturers and is competitive every year. If Vettel could actually drive a good car fast and consistent he should have won last years championship and thats why Ferrari brought in LeClerc.

Leclerc was meant to be Vettel’s dog but unfortunately Leclerc rose above that and thrashed him since day one. It took the Scuderia squad a few races to realise that.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by sillo38

I think that’s a little harsh.

I agree. I really can't stand Vettel and his smug attitude especially when he was winning. He is just one driver I have never liked.
But....dude is a four, 4, cuatro, 2+2=4 time world champion. That isn't easy and that proves he has talent. What ever is going on, he still commands respect, albeit considering that something is "broke" in his driving game.
Maybe he needs an oil change, new transmission, new underwear or lost his lucky rabbits foot, but whatever it is, he's lost his mojo.

Formula 1 is going through what MotoGP went through four years ago. Marquez, Lorenzo and the younbucks stormed in and literally changed the game. New riding styles, and the bikes themselves had to be modified for the aggressive spaniard riding styles.
Now we have Crashstappen, Leclerc, Ocon, Norris pushing these cars beyond the ability of the chassis. Verstappen and Leclerc proved they could move up field in inferior machines and look at what they can do when given the right tool.
They're just not as savvy and experienced as Ham, but they have courage and barge they're way to results. "These boys hungry(no fear), and they bring an appetite(skill)".

[sillo]

Originally Posted by RobearH

If Vettel could actually drive a good car

That's the issue, Ferrari hasn't provided him with one of those yet. 2017 and 2018 were solid, but not perfect and the car this year just isn't good at all.

Hamilton is definitely, without a doubt, the better driver and has shown he can adapt his driving style way better than Vettel. Give Vettel a car that suits him though and he'll drive the balls off of it. I do think he's lost his edge though.

Some of his incidents have been embarrassing, Hockenheim last year particularly, but to call him an embarrassment is a hilarious over exaggeration.

[Zakalwe]

Vettel is an all-time great time trialist. Stick him at the front of the grid in a competitive car and if he gets in the lead with some daylight to second, he will bring home the win. In any other circumstances, particularly in a difficult car and in traffic, Vettel is a bit better than average for an elite racing driver.

His world championships were a perfect storm - he was in the best car, whose characteristics (particularly the blown diffuser) suited his driving style perfectly and his team-mate was mediocre (sorry Webber fans, though he was a nice guy). People say his mistakes over the past year are uncharacteristic but they aren't, it's just that in his RB days he was more often than not way ahead of the field so wasn't in a position to be pressured nor having to race wheel-to-wheel, so his shortcomings weren't tested very much. Even then, his lapses were notable e.g. the various shunts he had with Webber, his spinning off the track whilst in the lead in the wet under pressure from Button (I think that was Montreal?) etc.

Now in a car that is not the class of the field, with a live team-mate (and remember, Ricciardo did exactly the same as Leclerc is now doing, coming into Vettel's own team and beating him) and having to race in traffic and under pressure, his weaknesses are being brutally exposed. But they were always there.

I will say one thing in his defence: out of all the F1 drivers, he does actually seem to be a nice, completely normal guy. He has a pretty good sense of humour and appears well grounded for a multimillionaire F1 driver. Many drivers have reputations for being difficult but not Seb. I quite like him.

[Rock]

It is very difficult to compare the ability of drivers who achieve the majority of their victories in the Season's dominant car.
Vettel's 4 WDCs were all in the dominant RB.
Hamilton had 5 of his 6 victories in the dominant Mercedes.
Schumacher had 5 of his 7 victories in a dominant Ferrari.
By comparison, Fangio's victories were 1XAlfa, 2XMercedes, 1XFerrari and 1XMaserati.
I think we have to leave "nice guy" assessments out of it. Vettel was quick and could be ruthless on the track - as are almost all highly successful sportspeople. He does appear to have gone off the boil, but then there are only three Drivers with more WDCs than him.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Rock

It is very difficult to compare the ability of drivers who achieve the majority of their victories in the Season's dominant car.
Vettel's 4 WDCs were all in the dominant RB.
Hamilton had 5 of his 6 victories in the dominant Mercedes.
Schumacher had 5 of his 7 victories in a dominant Ferrari.
By comparison, Fangio's victories were 1XAlfa, 2XMercedes, 1XFerrari and 1XMaserati.
I think we have to leave "nice guy" assessments out of it. Vettel was quick and could be ruthless on the track - as are almost all highly successful sportspeople. He does appear to have gone off the boil, but then there are only three Drivers with more WDCs than him.

True, but to get to and stay on a dominant/good/best manufacturer you have to have talent. They don't just pick up a joe shmoe and let him drive. If that were the case both cars of said team would end up one two in the drivers and manufacturers points all the time, but that isn't and hasn't been always the case.
Someone's going to have to drive what is considered the "best" all around car in the field, who's it gonna be.....some dude they found making youtube videos??
Or is it going to be someone that they believe has the talent to drive it and further develop it and communicate effectively to the engineers and chassis guys, what is good and bad about the car, not just anyone can do that...only the best in the field can. Niki Lauda, Ayrton Senna only have three titles each and are widely respected for their driving abilities, was it only because they had great cars?


I think it's a bit of an oversimplifying statement to just say well he had the best car. Ham didn't have to go to Mercedes, but he was smart and it paid off and Mercedes doesn't have to keep Hamilton or Botas, they could go with Ocon or Norris...but they don't...because these guys can drive and literally quite possibly better than half the field on any given day, that is a fact and cannot be denied.
In MotoGP it's the same, Ducati have the more powerful engine but Honda have the better more consistent bike. Others have the talent to beat Marquez but the mystical forces of the universe say Marquez is on the Honda.
Rossi tried that man over machine business and it didn't work out all that great, the Yamaha was good at first, then it wasn't, he was worst on a Ducati and now the Yamaha is weak sauce again.

If I were Hamilton I wouldn't give up my seat to appease some analyst just to "prove" I can win in any car because it's "me"(man over machine). Because it's not, in Formula 1 it's money over machine, and the machine brings out the best in the driver, not the other way around.

The other thing is politics, like why Stroll is driving or Perez....can't escape the politics or the deep pockets that control Formula 1, which is generally speaking still a rather privately owned business. Every owner is heavily invested in his team and loves racing and can easily pick up the phone and say yes or no to mostly anything.
But I'm no expert, just my opinion from what I see following the series.

[nighthawk77]

For me it’s 75% car and 25% driver.

I think there are varying tiers of drivers based on their pure racing ability. In the top tier, I’d only consider there to currently be Ham, Vet, Max - if any of these drivers are in the best car then they will likely win.

Charles is for sure going to (if not already) be in this top tier, and of recent years I think Alonso and Kimi probably also fell into this bracket.

[Zakalwe]

Haas retain Grosjean rather than hire Hulkenburg.

Great news for fans of bumper car racing everywhere!

[Rolex Essex]

There’ll be a seat available at Williams as Kubica has confirmed that he’ll be leaving at the end of the season.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Rolex Essex

There’ll be a seat available at Williams as Kubica has confirmed that he’ll be leaving at the end of the season.

Aren't they eyeing Latifi?

And I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but looks like those Ferrari updates are working. Leclerc and Vettel looked great out there and the top of the grid was tight. Hoping that translates into race pace though because that's where Ferrari has been struggling more.

[Rolex Essex]

Originally Posted by sillo38

Aren't they eyeing Latifi?

And I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but looks like those Ferrari updates are working. Hoping that translates into race pace though.

Yes most probably he’s bringing in a lot of money to the team while Hulk will cost them a lot.

Anyway Leclerc is on fire at Singapore. 3 poles in a row.

[nighthawk77]

Very well done by Charles and it’s nice having a change up top, certainly makes things a little more interesting...hopefully they all make a clean pass through the first few corners so we get a decent race...

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Haas retain Grosjean rather than hire Hulkenburg.

Great news for fans of bumper car racing everywhere!

[nighthawk77]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Russell’s comments afterwards sums it up lol. Romans a nice guy but so calamitous!

[sillo]

Made it so far without any incidents and now shit is hitting the fan

[77T]

Yeah the 3 SC periods changed the outcome methinks. Two of the SCs could have been avoided by better choices by stricken drivers - their drivable car could have limped to safe gap in track wall. Then a VSC would have been possible and only 1 lap per incident wasted.

Just some what if’s for bench racers...

What if only 1 SC? Maybe Ferrari tires wouldn’t have made it to end in good shape. VET & LEC had +8 laps more than VER following final pit stops. Might have been veeerrrryyy interesting

What if Ferrari hadn’t engineered the undercut by slowing the pace early to thwart any Mercedes pit window advantage? Maybe LEC would have boxed first then - and HAM could have split the Ferrari’s.

How did the race strategy at Mercedes get so off beam that they actually took HAM off the podium despite running strong 2nd early on?




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[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by 77T

How did the race strategy at Mercedes get so off beam that they actually took HAM off the podium despite running strong 2nd early on?

Once Vettel pitted Merc had two options: 1) pit the very next lap or 2) go long with Hamilton - who at the time was reporting his softs were in good nick - and hope for a timely SC and/or get the benefit of fresh rubber at the end of the race. Once Leclerc came in on the very next lap option 1 would’ve left Hamilton in third with no chance for the win without the intervention of fate. So whilst option 2 now looks like a mistake it was the only option they had to try to win the race. As it happens Hamilton’s tyres went off the cliff - Toto confirmed this in interview after the race - and no safety car came in time.

Of course with hindsight, they might have gone for a different option - pitting him at the same time as Vettel since a gap in traffic existed. Then again pit radio suggested Ferrari might’ve really struggled with tyre deg having pitted when they did so even that strategy might have come a cropper without the rash of safety cars that preserved the leaders’ tyres at the end.

So all in all I’m giving Merc a little bit of slack.

[77T]

I understand. What you say is right once they were flat-footed by VET boxing.

But during the laps when they could see LEC controlling pace to extend pit windows Mercedes might tell HAM to “do what LEC does” and BOT to “do what VET does”. And each time Ferrari crews bolted to their box, Mercedes followed suit.

That would’ve ended the game of undercut in pit lane. Once that radio transmission was made, Ferrari would likely tell LEC to build a gap for a classic in/out on cycle.

LEC said the strategy he had to follow was plan A in pre-race meeting. His Ferrari engineer didn’t even tell him VET had boxed (per interview).


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[sillo]

Even without the safety cars I don't see Hamilton passing the Ferraris. On a track like Singapore track position trumps tire condition.

[sillo]

Leclerc is on another level since the summer break. 4 tenths up on P2 and seems to be getting faster every race. Ferrari has also seemed to finally get their act together on the SF90, sadly it just seems to late to really challenge Mercedes in the championship standings.

[Zakalwe]

Anyone who thinks Vettel will yield here has forgotten “Multi-21”!

[texasmade]

Ferrari management is a joke. I don’t know why they wanted to swap on lap 6 or whatever it was when Lewis was so close. They finally got smart and decided to just screw Vettel on the pit stops to get the swap done.

[Razorsedge1]

Even when Ferrari has faster cars management finds a way to bungle race. Toto Wolf is always once step ahead when it comes to any type of strategy.