We should help stopping the madness.

[Ouro9999]

Why on Earth someone should pay above retail for a watch that are still in production?

The watch buyers are responsible for this crazy Rolex market (AP and Patek also included). I do not help on this, as I would never ever pay above retail for a watch that are still being made by the manufacturer.

I would pay more for a great vintage, a rarer model, something that was not really mass produced, but come on...

Not even for a ceramic daytona i would pay above retail, as this watch is available at Rolex catalogue.

I tell all my friends not to do it, instead buy something new (from other brands) or Rolex vintages (if they want to spend hard), or some great used pieces from several other brands. I do even recommend them to visit Rolex boutiques, as they will find nothing there...

I have no problem with a brand setting the prices as they want, but we should not be part of this crazy, mad and stupid used, gray or whatever they call for current Rolex sport models.

I will not support that. And will help my friends not to join this BS.

Sorry for the rant. But need to say what I think about this.

Thanks



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[Harry-57]

I went grey twice for models I couldn't get listed for. So I'm through with grey buying now. As such, I can now fully support you. :)

But only for Rolex.

I intend to continue using the grey market for a Tag and an Omega and possibly a Breitling I want to add to my collection in due course. I assume that using grey sellers to obtain watches under MSRP is still allowed?

[BillA]

Brother, I feel your pain. I want a Pepsi, but will have to go gray to get one, will never be called by our local AD’s, but I am not going to do it, will live without it, will not pay these crazy prices.

Some people argue that MSRP, is just a suggested price, and market supply and demand will dictate price. I agree, I wish we would not succumb to paying these crazy prices. Some people have money to burn, it is their prerogative to spend it as they wish.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

Why on Earth someone should pay above retail for a watch that are still in production? The watch buyers are responsible for this crazy Rolex market (AP and Patek also included).

IMHO it is global central banks flooding the market in currency, which in turn hunts for things of 'value' to turn said currency into things of inherent value. Since there is sooo much currency being released, prices in said currencies have become skewed to the upside. One look at overly high leverage and insane multiples in the stock market are evidence to this. Unicorns who lose hundreds of millions annually year after year, and have zero business plan to ever make a profit, somehow still have 'value'???

jmho

[Uggi]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

I would never ever pay above retail

Don't believe you. What if a watch you really wanted was offered at literally ONE PENCE over retail price?
I think you'd pay above retail, just like the next man/woman would.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

IMHO it is global central banks flooding the market in currency, which in turn hunts for things of 'value' to turn said currency into things of inherent value. Since there is sooo much currency being released, prices in said currencies have become skewed to the upside. One look at overly high leverage and insane multiples in the stock market are evidence to this. Unicorns who lose hundreds of millions annually year after year, and have zero business plan to ever make a profit, somehow still have 'value'???

jmho

That’s so right on, it barely qualifies as opinion

[brandrea]

So if a Daytona C were available for $500.00 above retail through a gray, you wouldn’t touch it?

[1William]

I get your point and can see the many factors that impact availability and price. I have and will continue to buy as I see fit. Grey Market, AD, Private sale. I always want a good deal but typically settle for a fair deal. The market controls the price and the AD's are outside of my control so you have to decide. Do you want the watch enough to either wait and move through the AD system or do you pay Grey prices. I talk to a lot of watch enthusiasts and when the money for a watch comes up I know it is no longer about the watches but about the cost and perceived value. Pay to play or sit down, either way just remember it is not personal, it is the way it is.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by brandrea

So if a Daytona C were available for $500.00 above retail through a gray, you wouldn’t touch it?

I think the OP is not talking about a few dollars over msrp, but thousands of dollars over msrp.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by BillA

I think the OP is not talking about a few dollars over msrp, but thousands of dollars over msrp.

And there’s the conundrum... a few hundred may be like a few thousand to someone else.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

Why on Earth someone should pay above retail for a watch that are still in production?

Because they want it.

When the forum moves from watch discussions to directives telling other people what to do, we have reached then end.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by brandrea

And there’s the conundrum... a few hundred may be like a few thousand to someone else.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Because they want it.

When the forum moves from watch discussions to directives telling other people what to do, we have reached then end.

Indeed and these threads always end the same way.

OP, I get your frustration to a degree, however you can’t have it both ways. No one complains when they sell their watch (whatever the circumstances) for as much or more than they paid.

I’m personally glad that they have become harder to come by and that ADs don’t discount (at least on much of the product line). I remember the days when you could negotiate a 20-30% discount depending on the reference. That wasn’t and isn’t good for the brand IMO.

[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by brandrea

So if a Daytona C were available for $500.00 above retail through a gray, you wouldn’t touch it?

No, because if reaches that price point is because it's available are boutique.

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[Pantheon]

The only reason I would ever deal with grays are to get a better deal than what an AD can offer. I won't go to grays to pay them a premium markup just for them to turn around and buy more from ADs to constrict supply. It's like paying a guy 7k to go to the AD, buy the watch and mail it to you.

[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

I went grey twice for models I couldn't get listed for. So I'm through with grey buying now. As such, I can now fully support you. :)

But only for Rolex.

I intend to continue using the grey market for a Tag and an Omega and possibly a Breitling I want to add to my collection in due course. I assume that using grey sellers to obtain watches under MSRP is still allowed?

I can not compete with someone who bought not one, but two Rolex watches at grey dealers.

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[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Indeed and these threads always end the same way.



OP, I get your frustration to a degree, however you can’t have it both ways. No one complains when they sell their watch (whatever the circumstances) for as much or more than they paid.



I’m personally glad that they have become harder to come by and that ADs don’t discount (at least on much of the product line). I remember the days when you could negotiate a 20-30% discount depending on the reference. That wasn’t and isn’t good for the brand IMO.

As I think I have made it clear, i am not against price policies, no discounts or whatever a Brand decides to do it with they product. I just think is not wise to pay over retail for a product that is being produced at factory regularly.

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[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by Pantheon

The only reason I would ever deal with grays are to get a better deal than what an AD can offer. I won't go to grays to pay them a premium markup just for them to turn around and buy more from ADs to constrict supply. It's like paying a guy 7k to go to the AD, buy the watch and mail it to you.

Agree 100%

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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

No, because if reaches that price point is because it's available are boutique.

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Ok, then what about $1250 over retail?

What I’m getting at it there’s no magic number, it’s all relative to what people are prepared to pay and think is reasonable.

[Zakalwe]

Let’s say I’m a millionaire (I’m not). My income is £2mil per annum. My time is precious, I’ve got no inclination to jump through hoops for an AD, nor do I want anything other than an SS Daytona. I’m not going to wait 20 years or whatever stupid number the AD has quoted me to get the only watch I want. The £10k above list I’d pay going grey is the equivalent of £100 for a typical compatriot on the average annual U.K. salary. In other words, a drop in the ocean.

Not everybody buying watches with a 5-figure price tag is a millionaire, but none of them are short of a bob or two and the folks who buy grey judge that it’s worth it. With respect, who are you to tell them they shouldn’t?

[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Because they want it.



When the forum moves from watch discussions to directives telling other people what to do, we have reached then end.

I think it's all about watches. I would be surprised if we could not talk about watch market on a watch forum.

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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Let’s say I’m a millionaire (I’m not). My income is £2mil per annum. My time is precious, I’ve got no inclination to jump through hoops for an AD, nor do I want anything other than an SS Daytona. I’m not going to wait 20 years or whatever stupid number the AD has quoted me to get the only watch I want. The £10k above list I’d pay going grey is the equivalent of £100 for a typical compatriot on the average annual U.K. salary. In other words, a drop in the ocean.

Not everybody buying watches with a 5-figure price tag is a millionaire, but none of them are short of a bob or two and the folks who buy grey judge that it’s worth it. With respect, who are you to tell them they shouldn’t?

Exactly.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

I think it's all about watches. I would be surprised if we could not talk about watch market on a watch forum.

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We are not however talking about watches.

You are quite upset about how other spend their money. You are trying to tell other people how to behave, trying to tell a retailer how to run their business.

Do you even like watches or is this just a "rant" because you cannot get what you want?

[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Let’s say I’m a millionaire (I’m not). My income is £2mil per annum. My time is precious, I’ve got no inclination to jump through hoops for an AD, nor do I want anything other than an SS Daytona. I’m not going to wait 20 years or whatever stupid number the AD has quoted me to get the only watch I want. The £10k above list I’d pay going grey is the equivalent of £100 for a typical compatriot on the average annual U.K. salary. In other words, a drop in the ocean.

Not everybody buying watches with a 5-figure price tag is a millionaire, but none of them are short of a bob or two and the folks who buy grey judge that it’s worth it. With respect, who are you to criticise them?

I'am just me, and have the right to write here, people like it or not, part of the game, did not offended no one except you I guess, because you probably bought one over retail.

As for the millionaire part, people can do whatever they want with they money, including giving it away. As I can give my opinion..




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[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by Uggi

Don't believe you. What if a watch you really wanted was offered at literally ONE PENCE over retail price?

I think you'd pay above retail, just like the next man/woman would.

No, I would not buy it. Because if it is offered a pence above retail is because I can get it at boutique for the retail price.

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[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Ouro9999

I'am just me, and have the right to write here, people like it or not, part of the game, did not offended no one except you I guess, because you probably bought one over retail.

As for the millionaire part, people can do whatever they want with they money, including giving it away. As I can give my opinion..




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Is there anything more tiresome on forums than somebody offering a view, then when challenged about their view resorting to the “I’m entitled to my opinion” defence?

It’s self evident you can offer your opinion just as others are entitled to call it out as bollocks.

[Pantheon]

I think some of you guys are taking the OP's post the wrong way. It's not just 100% about the price but the availability. The more incentive there is for grays to overcharge the bigger the waitlists get at the ADs because now you have the flippers trying to make a quick buck added to the equation. If there were less people paying gray premiums it would make the market conditions better as a whole since if flippers can't make a nice chunk of money then they will move onto something else. Also due to the lack of availability, the situation creates a lot of hype buyers. People who buy based on FOMO.

There is a good reason that while watches aren't available at ADs, the gray market have hundreds and thousands available. The consumer market did that to itself. The grays are just capitalizing on it.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Is there anything more tiresome on forums than somebody offering a view, then when challenged about their view resorting to the “I’m entitled to my opinion” defence?

It’s self evident you can offer your opinion just as others can call it out as being bollocks.

Agreed, I ask many questions and rarely get answers

That is the state of discourse today, few can actually support their opinion

[djgallo]

Another one complaining they can’t buy at retail.....and telling anyone that pays more than retail is wrong..... such superciliousness.....

[Ouro9999]

Originally Posted by beshannon

We are not however talking about watches.



You are quite upset about how other spend their money. You are trying to tell other people how to behave, trying to tell a retailer how to run their business.



Do you even like watches or is this just a "rant" because you cannot get what you want?

I do not think I have that power. Or I do?

I just said that I do think buying something that is regularly produced over price is a wise move, and I fight this madness.

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