It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

[Matteo E]

Originally Posted by OJONES

Rolex has no more aim to be Patek that Mercedes has about becoming Bentley. They’re more concerned about becoming too common.

This.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I understand. But how can you aspire to purchase something that doesn’t exist? How do they manage to make enough Tudors to more than meet demand but fail at doing so with Rolex?

Demand surged for SS Rolexes and it stayed constant for Tudors. Simple really.

[DramaTurtle]

Modern Rolex

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Heritage. It's been there since the early 1950s.

Thanks... I had seen that of course, but I still don't understand why it's on the dial.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by AK797

Demand surged for SS Rolexes and it stayed constant for Tudors. Simple really.

I believe a company with the resources of Rolex can increase production to meet demand. I don’t believe they can’t keep up with demand.

[sensui]

Greedy AD this...greedy Grey seller that.....then comes the complaints of Rolex restricting supply...yet everyone loves how their Rolex holds/appreciates in value....it is what it is folks....who can fault ADs and grey sellers making a living maximizing profit. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too....but that's not always how things play out.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

Thanks... I had seen that of course, but I still don't understand why it's on the dial.

I see a lot of complaints from people that Tudors have snowflake hands and not the Mercedes hands. Tudor has its own design cues and history.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

Tudor is a reference to England where Wilsdorf founded Rolex. It’s a great name imo and fitting tribute to the land where Wilsdorf became a success.

Thanks for clarifying. I think it will still be Rolex's little brother until the end of time... unless they start creating watches that are unlike anything Rolex produces... maybe MB&F style.

[the_natural]

Originally Posted by sensui

....who can fault ADs and grey sellers making a living maximizing profit.

Rolex, apparently.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by sensui

Greedy AD this...greedy Grey seller that.....then comes the complaints of Rolex restricting supply...yet everyone loves how their Rolex holds/appreciates in value....it is what it is folks....who can fault ADs and grey sellers making a living maximizing profit. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too....but that's not always how things play out.

Now you make a fantastic point. I think Rolex is masterful at brand management. Excellent point. Can you manage the brand and still fulfill the consumers demands? I believe so. At least improve upon what we’ve seen.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I believe a company with the resources of Rolex can increase production to meet demand. I don’t believe they can’t keep up with demand.

I agree but they don't move on trends, they take a longer term view and are waiting to see how the world economy and the watch economy plays out, everything is in flux. It is very frustrating for us but Rolex are a conservative, deliberate company, they are not dynamic like Facebook and now look at what's happened to them lately.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

Thanks for clarifying. I think it will still be Rolex's little brother until the end of time... unless they start creating watches that are unlike anything Rolex produces... maybe MB&F style.

That’s outdated thought. When has Rolex created anything near the Black Bay Bronze? Just 1 example.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by thomaswentworth

Thanks... I had seen that of course, but I still don't understand why it's on the dial.

It goes back to the days when Rolex got in trouble for claiming they invented the self-winding watch, when they actually just invented the "rotor" self-winding watch.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by AK797

I agree but they don't move on trends, they take a longer term view and are waiting to see how the world economy and the watch economy plays out, everything is in flux. It is very frustrating for us but Rolex are a conservative, deliberate company, they are not dynamic like Facebook and now look at what's happened to them lately.

I’m not sure it’s trends. I would tend to think it’s requests from AD’s for more stock.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It goes back to the days when Rolex got in trouble for claiming they invented the self-winding watch, when they actually just invented the "rotor" self-winding watch.

Which is still a great achievement.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Which is still a great achievement.

Yes, but strictly speaking Rolex didn't really "invent" the rotor, either, they just bought the patent off someone else ( I forget who, but you can look it up).

[WJGESQ]

Tudors always look goofy by comparison.

[thomaswentworth]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

It goes back to the days when Rolex got in trouble for claiming they invented the self-winding watch, when they actually just invented the "rotor" self-winding watch.

Ok cool... That is actually some good history to know. Thanks for sharing and the education on the subject. Now I have no complaints about the use of the word Rotor on the Tudor dials.

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by sensui

Greedy AD this...greedy Grey seller that.....then comes the complaints of Rolex restricting supply...yet everyone loves how their Rolex holds/appreciates in value....it is what it is folks....who can fault ADs and grey sellers making a living maximizing profit. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too....but that's not always how things play out.

Plain facts. Clearly articulated. Sound logic will always prevail.

[lecorsaire]

Rolex already produces 800,000-900,000 watches per year. This has stayed constant over the last two decades. They simply won’t produce anymore. That they choose to produce more Datejusts and Day-Dates than sports models is their decision. Remember that they have 28, 31, 36 and 41mm DJs in SS, TT YG, TT RG and YG on a president for the ladies’ 28s and 31s. They won’t stop producing those just because steel sports watch popularity is at an all time high. They don’t have to answer to shareholders. All they care about is protecting the brand’s reputation and ensuring its legacy for many decades and even centuries to come.

[77T]

Originally Posted by HL65

You don’t know the strategy unless you are privy to the C suite of Rolex HQ nor do any of us. I agree with you Neil as clearly evidenced over the last 6 months or so. How long this continues who knows but Rolex makes a lot of watches and the bulk of them are sub $15,000. When you look at a Patek their sporty offerings as in 5711 or 5167 makes up a small portion of their sales not the bulk like Rolex. Rolex is not transitioning to the top tier market as in Patek, AP, or Lange. Rolex bread and butter is in SS and TT Professional/sports watches from DJ to Submariner etc. Their history is built upon and tied to those very watches with the upper pieces as in DD’s being the upper end of their market. They change slowly and never have strayed far from their original or classic style and recognizable look. I think Tudor is doing a great job in their market and Rolex has clearly made that a serious competitor in their price range. So I do disagree with your thoughts but that’s ok to each his own. In my 30 years of collecting Rolex I have learned one thing and that is that things change and with Rolex very slowly. So Tudor is the same Tudor and Rolex is Rolex. That’s a good thing and may everyone get the watches they want.

PS I am still having fun as long as my AD loves me not Rolex. They just need to keep making watches I love!

I agree 95% - we don’t know the strategy but we do see the tactics. Tudor positioning is closer to the millennial and Rolex pricing to the Baby Boomer.

IIRC, DJs & DDs sell more than the sports models at Rolex.

I visited my Nearby AD - 2nd visit in March. The owner said they received 0 new watches from Rolex in March thus far. But they did get some Tudors into the shop.

And Omega delivered lots of product. So the tactic may be (at least here in US) to move buyers to Tudor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yes, but strictly speaking Rolex didn't really "invent" the rotor, either, they just bought the patent off someone else ( I forget who, but you can look it up).

I didn’t know that. Good tip.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by lecorsaire

Rolex already produces 800,000-900,000 watches per year. This has stayed constant over the last two decades. They simply won’t produce anymore. That they choose to produce more Datejusts and Day-Dates than sports models is their decision. Remember that they have 28, 31, 36 and 41mm DJs in SS, TT YG, TT RG and YG on a president for the ladies’ 28s and 31s. They won’t stop producing those just because steel sports watch popularity is at an all time high. They don’t have to answer to shareholders. All they care about is protecting the brand’s reputation and ensuring its legacy for many decades and even centuries to come.

800-900k but evenly distributed through the model line?

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by HL65

You don’t know the strategy unless you are privy to the C suite of Rolex HQ nor do any of us. I agree with you Neil as clearly evidenced over the last 6 months or so. How long this continues who knows but Rolex makes a lot of watches and the bulk of them are sub $15,000. When you look at a Patek their sporty offerings as in 5711 or 5167 makes up a small portion of their sales not the bulk like Rolex. Rolex is not transitioning to the top tier market as in Patek, AP, or Lange. Rolex bread and butter is in SS and TT Professional/sports watches from DJ to Submariner etc. Their history is built upon and tied to those very watches with the upper pieces as in DD’s being the upper end of their market. They change slowly and never have strayed far from their original or classic style and recognizable look. I think Tudor is doing a great job in their market and Rolex has clearly made that a serious competitor in their price range. So I do disagree with your thoughts but that’s ok to each his own. In my 30 years of collecting Rolex I have learned one thing and that is that things change and with Rolex very slowly. So Tudor is the same Tudor and Rolex is Rolex. That’s a good thing and may everyone get the watches they want.

PS I am still having fun as long as my AD loves me not Rolex. They just need to keep making watches I love!

I don’t know the strategy but I can witness the results. My conclusion is this thread.

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

Tudors always look goofy by comparison.

Haha. It’s not supposed to look like a Rolex. Otherwise why have 2 brands.

[lecorsaire]

Patek with Mr. Stern are very smart about protecting their cachet as well. They could easily ramp up SS 5711 and 5712 production with the same quality but that would lower the exclusivity of the brand. Hermès could produce more Birkins and Kellys as well but then women wouldn’t be lining up hysterically and taking whatever they’re given the chance to buy!

As it stands Patek is in some danger of losing cachet. While iced out Day-Dates used to be the rapper’s watch of choice back in the ‘90s, now it’s the Nautilus in any reference. I’m actually pissed that so many of them are being damaged by jewelers with all these aftermarket stones. They’re limited enough already and a large chunk of them are being disfigured forever.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

Haha. It’s not supposed to look like a Rolex. Otherwise why have 2 brands.

So the design can be more accessible for "the man whose purse is modest".

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

So the design can be more accessible for those whose "purse is modest".

I love the old literature. And as you may remember also the Rose. Interesting that the bracelet in the photo is just like the ranger bracelet.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Polarbears

I don’t know the strategy but I can witness the results. My conclusion is this thread.

Cool and mine is my post and I think I am right so have at it!

[Polarbears]

Originally Posted by HL65

Cool and mine is my post and I think I am right so have at it!

Definitely