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Old 23 March 2018, 04:37 PM   #121
run23
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It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

I think a more accurate description is that Tudor is the OLD Rolex, at least based on my probably inaccurate perception of Rolex in the 1950s to early 1970s. Yeah, I know, probably wrong, but whatever.

Think about the Bond movies. Connery’s and Fleming’s Rolex wasn’t positioned as a luxury brand for the rich- yeah, it was a nice watch, but it Bond wasn’t wearing it to show his upper class credentials. It seemed like more of a military, special forces guy watch that was a contrast to Bond wearing in a tux in Goldfinger (which is why people noticed the watch with a tux).

Fast forward to Craig’s Bond in Casino Royale when he’s asked on a train what kind of watch he wears (Rolex?), and he answers Omega. The brand positioning there was that Bond’s watch was supposed to be a some sort of class signifier for a guy with (or who Vesper was guessing he was) that went to fancy schools and wears ‘rich guy with money’ stuff.

I know it’s all marketing BS (and for a WIS maybe the film would have been more accurate if she guessed Patek or VC), but to the average joe watching the film who knows little about watches other than ‘Rolexes are the best watches’, the filmmaker was clearly trying to show that Bond wears the type of watch someone who wears expensive bespoke Savile Row suits, and comes from money wears, which is why (I’m guessing) Omega spent so much money to have its brand associated with that lifestyle -and as an alternative to Rolex- so a non-WIS would associate Omega with that type of playboy-coming-from-money lifestyle. It’s almost like the 1950s Bond would be more likely to wear a G-Shock (or Tudor??) than a Rolex in today’s watch branding.

Ok, I guess Tudor isn’t quite the old Rolex, but I think it’s closer to that than the current Rolex branding.
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Old 23 March 2018, 06:01 PM   #122
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Ahhhhh The Black Rose. Every collector needs to take Johns advice and buy a Tudor Black Bay Black Bezel with ��. If you can find one. Money in the Bank.
Yes, I agree.

Snowflake hand and Shield Logo are the two symbolic icons of the modern days' Tudor.

The safest bet is that Tudor won't be using �� on its new models ever again. Just like they will probably never going to put the Mercedes hands back to Tudor's watches.

To me, the new Black Bay 58 is a great looking 39mm vintage diver watch. It almost perfect, but the lack of �� logo making it dropped from a must-have to a good-to-have. BBN ETA is probably the only collectible piece of the modern Tudor's lineup in foreseeable future.

In conclusion, Tudor is not the new Rolex, but it is the old Rolex which produced high quality tool watches in old days. Tudor aims for middle-higher class market while Rolex will still be holding its ground at luxury & upperscale richies market.
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Old 23 March 2018, 11:20 PM   #123
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First, I agree with the OP. Tudor is the 'new' Rolex. Or it's the 'old' Rolex - whatever. Tudor is well positioned to provide quality watches for the masses once they're done with the Apple watches.

The good
- Excellent movements! Can't complain about Rolex-like accuracy and 70h power reserves. When you look at the competition Tudor is incredible value for what you get. If you popped a Tudor movement into a Rolex case you wouldn't know the difference.
- They're pushing the envelope. Even the new Pepsi GMT is an aggressive move, they really came out with a compelling combination! Fantastic watch. When the Pelagos first came out it set the standard for dive watches.
- They're great value. Figure $4k MSRP and $3k street price. While you wouldn't expect these watches to appreciate, they'll likely hold close to that street price as well. At that price cost is hardly a concern anyway, most hobbies cost money. You can have 3-4 Tudors for the price of one Rolex.
- Ceramic bezels on some models
- Great lugs for the most part
- Variety
- Best Lume on the planet!
- Good performance! Waterproof enough, they're all 'tool watches'

The bad
- Tudor has overused the Black Bay name. And what the heck is a black bay? It makes me think of Pirates of the Caribbean!
- Most faces look the same: white dots, snowflake hands.
- Most cases look the same: round, big fat crown, no crown guards
- Lack of solid bracelet selection, I can't go for the riveted designs

Tudor is introducing so much selection and yet they're all alike. I'm afraid that while they've been able to bring back the brand they'll end up diluting it if they keep down this path.

Please Tudor:
- Let us have some solid bracelets! Ditch the rivets and plates.
- Stop calling every watch a Black Bay.
- Create some new dials

I do own a Pelagos and I love it! If it were cast in Steel it would be even better
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Old 23 March 2018, 11:32 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by amh View Post
First, I agree with the OP. Tudor is the 'new' Rolex. Or it's the 'old' Rolex - whatever. Tudor is well positioned to provide quality watches for the masses once they're done with the Apple watches.

The good
- Excellent movements! Can't complain about Rolex-like accuracy and 70h power reserves. When you look at the competition Tudor is incredible value for what you get. If you popped a Tudor movement into a Rolex case you wouldn't know the difference.
- They're pushing the envelope. Even the new Pepsi GMT is an aggressive move, they really came out with a compelling combination! Fantastic watch. When the Pelagos first came out it set the standard for dive watches.
- They're great value. Figure $4k MSRP and $3k street price. While you wouldn't expect these watches to appreciate, they'll likely hold close to that street price as well. At that price cost is hardly a concern anyway, most hobbies cost money. You can have 3-4 Tudors for the price of one Rolex.
- Ceramic bezels on some models
- Great lugs for the most part
- Variety
- Best Lume on the planet!
- Good performance! Waterproof enough, they're all 'tool watches'

The bad
- Tudor has overused the Black Bay name. And what the heck is a black bay? It makes me think of Pirates of the Caribbean!
- Most faces look the same: white dots, snowflake hands.
- Most cases look the same: round, big fat crown, no crown guards
- Lack of solid bracelet selection, I can't go for the riveted designs

Tudor is introducing so much selection and yet they're all alike. I'm afraid that while they've been able to bring back the brand they'll end up diluting it if they keep down this path.

Please Tudor:
- Let us have some solid bracelets! Ditch the rivets and plates.
- Stop calling every watch a Black Bay.
- Create some new dials

I do own a Pelagos and I love it! If it were cast in Steel it would be even better
Not sure where you're getting your info but Tudor bracelets are solid link.
dP
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Old 23 March 2018, 11:38 PM   #125
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Greedy AD this...greedy Grey seller that.....then comes the complaints of Rolex restricting supply...yet everyone loves how their Rolex holds/appreciates in value....it is what it is folks....who can fault ADs and grey sellers making a living maximizing profit. Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too....but that's not always how things play out.


Well said


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Old 23 March 2018, 11:40 PM   #126
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Tudor is a great watch. I hope it get’s more popular. Unbelievable quality for reasonable price.
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Old 23 March 2018, 11:59 PM   #127
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Really IMHO, Rolex was a tool and jewelry watch manufacturer; they weren't cheap and they were waterproof, durable, and reliable. How distorted is perception now when a $4-5K Tudor is regarded as cheap and second class because it hasn't been turned into an over priced piece of jewelry lacking the newest refinements of the Rolex line. Rolex is no longer a tool watch manufacturer. Yes their watches are capable but they're overpriced and in general worn as jewelry with owners worried about ever blemish affecting their "investment." Of course Rolex watches were never disposable watches like most watches on the market. They were worn for their ruggedness and durability in situations where their durability was required.



Today Tudor is every bit as durable as Rolex for half the cost. It isn't as expensive a piece of Jewelry but at the price point it still is expensive. Many still worry about their Tudors as much as their Rolex watches. Some may think that because Tudor has watches that look and function similarly to the 5 digit Rolexes that they've taken over the Rolex of yesteryear role but the truth is they haven't. They are a less expensive Jewelry watch. The day of the mechanical Tool watch is gone due to the cost of acquiring a worthy watch. Those days are gone never to be seen again.


This right here rings pretty true to me


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Old 24 March 2018, 12:00 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Polarbears View Post
Friends, waitlists, price increases, scarcity, etc.

Rolex is going upmarket. Exclusivity. Sell less units at higher prices. Same profit. Rolex=Patek Eventually.

Tudor is the brand that people will aspire to own. Rolex if you’re wealthy.

This is the strategy. It’s the reason you have a Tudor Pepsi and a Rolex Pepsi both with in house movements, 70 hour power reserves.

There is no way management would allow such in house scalping if this wasn’t to move both brands up market with Tudor replacing Rolex for the aspirational middle class.

It’s clever yet obvious and slightly cynical but it’s happening.

Crazy, I was just thinking that the other day
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Old 24 March 2018, 12:02 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by amh View Post
First, I agree with the OP. Tudor is the 'new' Rolex. Or it's the 'old' Rolex - whatever. Tudor is well positioned to provide quality watches for the masses once they're done with the Apple watches.

The good
- Excellent movements! Can't complain about Rolex-like accuracy and 70h power reserves. When you look at the competition Tudor is incredible value for what you get. If you popped a Tudor movement into a Rolex case you wouldn't know the difference.
- They're pushing the envelope. Even the new Pepsi GMT is an aggressive move, they really came out with a compelling combination! Fantastic watch. When the Pelagos first came out it set the standard for dive watches.
- They're great value. Figure $4k MSRP and $3k street price. While you wouldn't expect these watches to appreciate, they'll likely hold close to that street price as well. At that price cost is hardly a concern anyway, most hobbies cost money. You can have 3-4 Tudors for the price of one Rolex.
- Ceramic bezels on some models
- Great lugs for the most part
- Variety
- Best Lume on the planet!
- Good performance! Waterproof enough, they're all 'tool watches'

The bad
- Tudor has overused the Black Bay name. And what the heck is a black bay? It makes me think of Pirates of the Caribbean!
- Most faces look the same: white dots, snowflake hands.
- Most cases look the same: round, big fat crown, no crown guards
- Lack of solid bracelet selection, I can't go for the riveted designs

Tudor is introducing so much selection and yet they're all alike. I'm afraid that while they've been able to bring back the brand they'll end up diluting it if they keep down this path.

Please Tudor:
- Let us have some solid bracelets! Ditch the rivets and plates.
- Stop calling every watch a Black Bay.
- Create some new dials

I do own a Pelagos and I love it! If it were cast in Steel it would be even better
have you tried on a riveted bracelet? it is much better in the flesh. i didnt like it in pictures but i do like it on my s&g.
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Old 24 March 2018, 12:07 AM   #130
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I begrudgingly agree with the OP. I have to admit, it feels like Rolex is doing everything possible to step up to the next level. I miss the days of walking in to the average AD and seeing all of my favorite models there. I beleive they are doing exactly what the OP said. Tudor to the forefront of available, well made, and beautiful models...and Rolex to the top with Patek, AP. It's only a matter of time before OP is proven right...although he probably is already. I for one, was never a huge tudor fan, but i respect the brand. The new Tudor GMT, is absolutely awesome.
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Old 24 March 2018, 12:52 AM   #131
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Many interesting thoughts here....I agree with many. Not sure, with all the exclusivity, why doesn’t rolex just remove the middle men and create boutiques and allow for online ordering. That way when you’re given your place, you’ll know exactly when you’ll be receiving your watch. Though to in part answer my own question - ADs are how the brand is able to make about 1M watches annually and push many of the undesirables as requirements to maintain ADs status. Simple solution to that would be to restrict production of those that don’t really sell anyway and increase production of those that do! But then that would dilute the brand and so on.....who knows what I do know is I would still buy that SS Pepsi gmt even if the 10guys in the room im in all had it as well. That goes for many of its models. I’m not necessarily concerned with the exclusivity, I just like the damned things!
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Old 24 March 2018, 01:38 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by perry731 View Post
Yes, I agree.

Snowflake hand and Shield Logo are the two symbolic icons of the modern days' Tudor.

The safest bet is that Tudor won't be using �� on its new models ever again. Just like they will probably never going to put the Mercedes hands back to Tudor's watches.

To me, the new Black Bay 58 is a great looking 39mm vintage diver watch. It almost perfect, but the lack of �� logo making it dropped from a must-have to a good-to-have. BBN ETA is probably the only collectible piece of the modern Tudor's lineup in foreseeable future.

In conclusion, Tudor is not the new Rolex, but it is the old Rolex which produced high quality tool watches in old days. Tudor aims for middle-higher class market while Rolex will still be holding its ground at luxury & upperscale richies market.
With respect,,,,there is another Tudor BB thats not doing too bad also at the moment and thats the BBG harrods,,,,
Hands up for a LV looking BB to go with there pepsi BB,,,,,,
feels like a pattern developing,,,,,,
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Old 24 March 2018, 01:45 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by amh View Post
First, I agree with the OP. Tudor is the 'new' Rolex. Or it's the 'old' Rolex - whatever. Tudor is well positioned to provide quality watches for the masses once they're done with the Apple watches.

The good
- Excellent movements! Can't complain about Rolex-like accuracy and 70h power reserves. When you look at the competition Tudor is incredible value for what you get. If you popped a Tudor movement into a Rolex case you wouldn't know the difference.
- They're pushing the envelope. Even the new Pepsi GMT is an aggressive move, they really came out with a compelling combination! Fantastic watch. When the Pelagos first came out it set the standard for dive watches.
- They're great value. Figure $4k MSRP and $3k street price. While you wouldn't expect these watches to appreciate, they'll likely hold close to that street price as well. At that price cost is hardly a concern anyway, most hobbies cost money. You can have 3-4 Tudors for the price of one Rolex.
- Ceramic bezels on some models
- Great lugs for the most part
- Variety
- Best Lume on the planet!
- Good performance! Waterproof enough, they're all 'tool watches'

The bad
- Tudor has overused the Black Bay name. And what the heck is a black bay? It makes me think of Pirates of the Caribbean!
- Most faces look the same: white dots, snowflake hands.
- Most cases look the same: round, big fat crown, no crown guards
- Lack of solid bracelet selection, I can't go for the riveted designs

Tudor is introducing so much selection and yet they're all alike. I'm afraid that while they've been able to bring back the brand they'll end up diluting it if they keep down this path.

Please Tudor:
- Let us have some solid bracelets! Ditch the rivets and plates.
- Stop calling every watch a Black Bay.
- Create some new dials

I do own a Pelagos and I love it! If it were cast in Steel it would be even better
probably Black Bay is Tudor's answer to Oyster Perpetual for Rolex.
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Old 24 March 2018, 01:46 AM   #134
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have you tried on a riveted bracelet? it is much better in the flesh. i didnt like it in pictures but i do like it on my s&g.
how is the rivet? is it a real rivet or faux rivet which is machined to the bracelet. i always have an impression that its a faux rivet. haven't had the opportunity to tried one myself.
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Old 24 March 2018, 02:35 AM   #135
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Crazy, I was just thinking that the other day
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Old 24 March 2018, 02:36 AM   #136
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Yes, I agree.

Snowflake hand and Shield Logo are the two symbolic icons of the modern days' Tudor.

The safest bet is that Tudor won't be using �� on its new models ever again. Just like they will probably never going to put the Mercedes hands back to Tudor's watches.

To me, the new Black Bay 58 is a great looking 39mm vintage diver watch. It almost perfect, but the lack of �� logo making it dropped from a must-have to a good-to-have. BBN ETA is probably the only collectible piece of the modern Tudor's lineup in foreseeable future.

In conclusion, Tudor is not the new Rolex, but it is the old Rolex which produced high quality tool watches in old days. Tudor aims for middle-higher class market while Rolex will still be holding its ground at luxury & upperscale richies market.
The Rose is where all the collector money will go.
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Old 24 March 2018, 02:37 AM   #137
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Tudor is a great watch. I hope it get’s more popular. Unbelievable quality for reasonable price.
Be careful with what you wish for as the more popular the more $$.
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Old 24 March 2018, 02:53 AM   #138
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I have many rolex in my collection and this year I bought my first tudor

people says that tudor copy, but tudor has always created models very similar to rolex...

rolex is tudor, tudor is rolex

my Bucherer...

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Old 24 March 2018, 03:42 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by alexxelor View Post
I have many rolex in my collection and this year I bought my first tudor

people says that tudor copy, but tudor has always created models very similar to rolex...

rolex is tudor, tudor is rolex

my Bucherer...



That is a sweet watch


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Old 24 March 2018, 03:47 AM   #140
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What's the new Tudor then?
Omega
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Old 24 March 2018, 03:48 AM   #141
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Rolex is expensive but by far not the most expensive brand
In fact in terms of top brands it’s relatively good value
For Patek and Jeager for example you can pay £30k for a normal steel watch whereas with Rolex you would get white gold, so Rolex is actually somewhat good value

If you look over history Rolex has been very constant in its pricing and is not likely to go down market or ridiculous either

Tudor was invented as a good value brand with high quality but not with the finishing or the extent of human detail to the movement

As it was as it will always be

Rgds
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Old 24 March 2018, 03:49 AM   #142
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The Rose is where all the collector money will go.
Yes, I am predicting that BB Harrods edition will turn into a mass-produced BB Green in near future. So, if BB GMT Pepsi stays in the lineup long enough, both BB Harrods and BB GMT Pepsi will not become collectible.
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Old 24 March 2018, 03:51 AM   #143
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Rolex is expensive but by far not the most expensive brand
In fact in terms of top brands it’s relatively good value
For Patek and Jeager for example you can pay £30k for a normal steel watch whereas with Rolex you would get white gold, so Rolex is actually somewhat good value

If you look over history Rolex has been very constant in its pricing and is not likely to go down market or ridiculous either

Tudor was invented as a good value brand with high quality but not with the finishing or the extent of human detail to the movement

As it was as it will always be

Rgds
Goof lord if anyone pays 30k pounds for a normal steel jaeger (modern) they need their head examined
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Old 24 March 2018, 03:54 AM   #144
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What are you talking about? Rolex was never just a one watch company. How were 18k Day-Dates and Datejusts (the 116238 has now been discontinued btw) or triple date Killys ever meant for the working class? That they marketed SS watches for divers, pilots and later on race car drivers doesn’t mean that this was the target market. They always marketed the brand as the best watch you can buy. While nothing they sell now is affordable this is a consequence of mechanical watches becoming luxury items due to quartz and the digital age.
Incorrect.

Rolex was easily obtainable in the 1950s-1970S. If you tried to sell someone a steel Rolex dive watch at the equivalent of today’s prices back then no one would buy it since it was not a status symbol. That changed in the 1980s and prices have skyrocketed ever since. Tudor is becoming what Rolex used to be.

If you made a functional spy today he would never wear a Rolex, it’s too expensive to be a “tool” in any real sense of the word.
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Old 24 March 2018, 04:40 AM   #145
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yes, i am predicting that bb harrods edition will turn into a mass-produced bb green in near future. So, if bb gmt pepsi stays in the lineup long enough, both bb harrods and bb gmt pepsi will not become collectible.
100%
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Old 24 March 2018, 04:41 AM   #146
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I have many rolex in my collection and this year I bought my first tudor

people says that tudor copy, but tudor has always created models very similar to rolex...

rolex is tudor, tudor is rolex

my Bucherer...

I love the blue and brassy combination.
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Old 24 March 2018, 08:31 AM   #147
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Incorrect.



Rolex was easily obtainable in the 1950s-1970S. If you tried to sell someone a steel Rolex dive watch at the equivalent of today’s prices back then no one would buy it since it was not a status symbol. That changed in the 1980s and prices have skyrocketed ever since. Tudor is becoming what Rolex used to be.



If you made a functional spy today he would never wear a Rolex, it’s too expensive to be a “tool” in any real sense of the word.


Why can’t a tool be expensive ?


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Old 24 March 2018, 08:58 AM   #148
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It’s real simple... Tudor is the new Rolex

Great thread. I have a few Rolexes - which I love and now a Black Bay Blue in-house movement. For those of you that think the Tudor is inferior to the Rolex SS professional line I challenge you to go to your AD and strap one on your wrist. The application of the lume on my Black Bay is more even and consistent than my 2016 Exp I. Tudor is pumping out high quality reasonably priced ‘tool’ watches. I love both brands but will probably purchase Tudors in the near future due to their affordability, quality and accessibility.


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Old 24 March 2018, 09:05 AM   #149
dr35mm
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Rolex will always be Rolex, they are just evolving their products and brand. Tudor is a great brand, but I see it as a companion to Rolex, not taking a path on their own. IMO, now more than ever I’m considering adding a Tudor (BB58 perhaps) but it will never replace my Submariner.


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Old 24 March 2018, 09:09 AM   #150
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I don’t think so! Look at all the incomings of watches people didn’t “want” but ended up buying because they got offered a “hot item”! When a brand makes people not think twice before shelling $15k on a luxury item they didn’t want but are buying becaus it’s “rare” that to me makes them on TOP!!
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