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Old 15 December 2017, 02:09 AM   #31
JnmEaton
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Ok folks, need some URGENT advice. I had a closer inspection of the watch yesterday. It still has a case sticker on the back, and in just the right light I can make out 18238. I pop off the bracelet, and sure enough, it's an 18238. I was searching for a white dial 18248. The seller was apologetic and offered a full refund right away. He explained that he simply never noticed and had bought the watch like this from Paul Duggan years ago (apparently a well known dealer), and from the seller's reviews and history, I entirely believe him.

So here's the question: Should this matter all that much? The watch has the exact look and in the condition I've been searching for for well over a year. If I ever come to sell, would that be a sticking point? I'm torn on the importance of a single case digit that only denotes a different bezel. However, the bark bezel and bracelet were obviously swapped over at some point. I see a "U1" on the clasp which I believe is around 1997. I believe the watch is a 1990. Bracelet is pristine, as is the bezel. Also, I so rarely come across this dial. Truly torn on what to do. If it were an old Sub with a newer Oyster bracelet I don't think many would bat an eye; in fact they might see it as a improvement.

What would you do in my shoes?
Seems that you are happy with this excellent example. I'd keep it.
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Old 15 December 2017, 03:17 AM   #32
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Seems that you are happy with this excellent example. I'd keep it.
I am happy with it; really just wondering if it affects anything down the road should I need to part with it. I never plan to, but I also like to be prepared.

I think it's pretty neat to still see this on after all these years (a bit difficult to see unless in the perfect light)...
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Old 15 December 2017, 03:27 AM   #33
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I am happy with it; really just wondering if it affects anything down the road should I need to part with it. I never plan to, but I also like to be prepared.
Oh, man, I've said that so many times (for both watches and vintage guitars: "This one is a keeper for life!"). If you DO sell it down the road, you're gonna be selling a differently-described watch than the one you thought you were buying, yes? That alone would be a (even minor) concern/headache I wouldn't want to deal with.

Beyond that, at least for me, there's the psychological reality that this isn't exactly the watch you were hoping it would be. THAT would really drive me crazy.

I know it sounds like I'm talking you into returning it, (sorry!) but, since you asked!
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Old 15 December 2017, 04:02 AM   #34
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Ok, so far 50/50.

Perhaps let me ask this: what would you consider to be a decent deal on what I received? What's the market value for a bark bracelet these days? I think I have a pretty good idea of pricing on a head-only 18238, but the bracelet values allude me a bit.

I'm not looking to profit; I would just want to make sure I got out even if splitting them up makes more sense down the line. In the meantime, I could keep looking for that perfect 18248 while enjoying what I have now...just a thought.
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Old 15 December 2017, 08:21 PM   #35
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Looking at this from my viewpoint, I would keep it.

As you know, finding a bark bracelet in that condition is a lot of work. Not a lot of bark out there and most of what is out there is a lot closer to the end of its life than I am. I have been looking on-and-off for a 18248 with a decent bracelet, and the going is slow. The search is fun, but there is a lot of junk out there. The bracelet on your watch is as close to unused as I have ever seen.

I found a 16238 with the fluted bezel and the bark bracelet instead of the issue Jubilee, and that combination looks really good to my eyes. You could always source a fluted bezel and return the head to its "original" reference condition. Not sure I would do so, but it is another option.

That watch looks good, and I bet it wears well. Does it really matter if the reference number is 18238 or 18248 if the wearing brings you joy? In the meantime, you can keep looking for a decent 18248 head if that one digit makes it an imperative. That bracelet makes the watch a keeper; another head is easy to find. Another bracelet, not so much.
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Old 15 December 2017, 09:39 PM   #36
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I understand your situation. I would be torn if the watch is exactly what you were looking for but is now slightly off. I would email a couple of Trusted Sellers and ask what the trade value is on the watch you have. Be sure to describe it specifically. You will then have a feel on where your price should be from the gentleman you purchased it from. I would be inclined to return the watch unless the seller could make my deal so good I could not pass and would keep the watch. Selling or trading a watch like this can be challenging and I have been in the situation before. Good luck.
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Old 15 December 2017, 09:49 PM   #37
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I have to say this is a true beauty thanks for sharing.
To keeping it or returning it...
Just ask yourself the question:
If you saw this in the store today would you buy it and for how much?

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Old 16 December 2017, 12:49 AM   #38
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Lots a great perspectives. I truly thank you all for the insights.

How about someone buy this and we'll do a trade? ;)

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/18k-y...-id6058706.htm
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Old 16 December 2017, 12:54 AM   #39
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Looking at this from my viewpoint, I would keep it.

As you know, finding a bark bracelet in that condition is a lot of work. Not a lot of bark out there and most of what is out there is a lot closer to the end of its life than I am. I have been looking on-and-off for a 18248 with a decent bracelet, and the going is slow. The search is fun, but there is a lot of junk out there. The bracelet on your watch is as close to unused as I have ever seen.

I found a 16238 with the fluted bezel and the bark bracelet instead of the issue Jubilee, and that combination looks really good to my eyes. You could always source a fluted bezel and return the head to its "original" reference condition. Not sure I would do so, but it is another option.

That watch looks good, and I bet it wears well. Does it really matter if the reference number is 18238 or 18248 if the wearing brings you joy? In the meantime, you can keep looking for a decent 18248 head if that one digit makes it an imperative. That bracelet makes the watch a keeper; another head is easy to find. Another bracelet, not so much.
Oh I hear you about the tedious nature of this search, especially the bracelet. 95% of what I've found has several missing links (and how stretched would spares be?!) or worn down crowns and edges, or a ton of stretch. I guess I need to decide what is a fair price for my bracelet, and then decide if the head's value is in the ballpark. I don't think it'd be difficult to sell the head some day. I'd probably source an excellent fluted bezel and put in on a very nice strap with a gold Rolex buckle, if I can find one. Those seem like a minefield as well with all the fakes.

Was the 16238 on the president style bark band, or the jubilee bark? I really like both, but wanted the double-quick DD specifically.

This is a nice look as well (to me), but that bracelet needs some love:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rol...8AAOSwUchaDNLU
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Old 16 December 2017, 12:55 AM   #40
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I understand your situation. I would be torn if the watch is exactly what you were looking for but is now slightly off. I would email a couple of Trusted Sellers and ask what the trade value is on the watch you have. Be sure to describe it specifically. You will then have a feel on where your price should be from the gentleman you purchased it from. I would be inclined to return the watch unless the seller could make my deal so good I could not pass and would keep the watch. Selling or trading a watch like this can be challenging and I have been in the situation before. Good luck.
I have emailed a couple sellers for their trade-in prices. I've never gone that route, but that is an excellent starting point that I hadn't thought about. Thanks for the idea. I think I'll stop by my AD on the way home too. They offered me $4800 for my 16600 several years ago when I was looking at the Deepsea. I thought they would have offered a lot less, but then again they probably wouldn't have budged off retail for a new piece. 'Tis a fun game we play!
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Old 16 December 2017, 12:56 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Mick8moses View Post
I have to say this is a true beauty thanks for sharing.
To keeping it or returning it...
Just ask yourself the question:
If you saw this in the store today would you buy it and for how much?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
If it were priced $1k higher than I paid, I would definitely have tried to negotiate. $2k, probably not. Problem is I've never seen a bark DD in a store!
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Old 16 December 2017, 02:37 AM   #42
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Oh I hear you about the tedious nature of this search, especially the bracelet. 95% of what I've found has several missing links (and how stretched would spares be?!) or worn down crowns and edges, or a ton of stretch. I guess I need to decide what is a fair price for my bracelet, and then decide if the head's value is in the ballpark. I don't think it'd be difficult to sell the head some day. I'd probably source an excellent fluted bezel and put in on a very nice strap with a gold Rolex buckle, if I can find one. Those seem like a minefield as well with all the fakes.

Was the 16238 on the president style bark band, or the jubilee bark? I really like both, but wanted the double-quick DD specifically.

This is a nice look as well (to me), but that bracelet needs some love:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Rol...8AAOSwUchaDNLU
The 16238 was on a President bark bracelet. The bracelet was in good shape, though not quite as good as yours. Clasp code was "D", which is 1981, and the head was an E-series (so 1990 or 1991). I prefer the Datejust to the Day-Date as I like the cleaner dial, but I know that most others prefer the Day-Date.

As far as bracelet prices, I really do not know. Bark watches with the bracelet seem to trade at a discount to watches with "regular" bracelets, but there are no new sources of bark bracelets.

All I can say is your 1823(4)8 is a really nice watch that I would be proud and happy to wear.
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Old 16 December 2017, 02:46 AM   #43
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Funny, the folder I'm storing photos is titled 1823-4-8
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Old 16 December 2017, 03:01 AM   #44
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Maybe back in the day (1997?) someone switched the bezel and the bracelet together for a different look - the watch looks to be in great condition so if it was me I would stick with it......I personally don't see it as a big deal but it is how you feel that counts.
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Old 21 December 2017, 03:10 PM   #45
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Congrats my 98 18248 says hi


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Old 21 December 2017, 08:24 PM   #46
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Since you've asked - the watch isn't 'correct' or what you thought you were buying, so there's your answer. I'd send it back and get my money back. Configuration, condition and the time it took to find it are all irrelevant, imo. You didn't find it yet, because it's not what you thought you bought. Sorry.
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Old 21 December 2017, 09:39 PM   #47
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I understand your situation. I would be torn if the watch is exactly what you were looking for but is now slightly off. I would email a couple of Trusted Sellers and ask what the trade value is on the watch you have. Be sure to describe it specifically. You will then have a feel on where your price should be from the gentleman you purchased it from. I would be inclined to return the watch unless the seller could make my deal so good I could not pass and would keep the watch. Selling or trading a watch like this can be challenging and I have been in the situation before. Good luck.
Agree on all of these points
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Old 22 December 2017, 12:52 AM   #48
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Congrats my 98 18248 says hi


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Very nice. I looked for a pyramid dial as well, just never found "the one." Yours looks just about factory fresh!
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Old 22 December 2017, 12:55 AM   #49
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Agree on all of these points
After a couple solid trade-in offers, my spend was close enough not to worry about what I have. I'll continue to look for THE 18248 of my dreams and enjoy what I have. The last few head-only sales (on eBay at least) of 18238 in so-so condition were right where I needed to be on mine. From my math (as an engineer that's all I do), I can't lose in the future.
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Old 22 December 2017, 01:03 AM   #50
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Since you've asked - the watch isn't 'correct' or what you thought you were buying, so there's your answer. I'd send it back and get my money back. Configuration, condition and the time it took to find it are all irrelevant, imo. You didn't find it yet, because it's not what you thought you bought. Sorry.
Point very well taken. I wasn't asking if it was 100% correct. I know it's not. However, not being 100% factory fresh doesn't make it worthless. I feel like I got an excellent head and an equally good bracelet.

Same thing happened on a 1680 a couple years ago, but in the opposite way. I found a watch with a service insert on a leather strap. The price was incredible, but asked the seller if he had the original insert and bracelet. He just kept telling me "I kept whatever they took off and you can have it. I don't know what 'original insert' means."

A few days later an uninsured ($4 postage) package shows up in the mail. Original insert, crystal, bracelet and a one month old service receipt for $1200.

What I thought I bought, vs. what I got:
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Old 22 December 2017, 02:40 AM   #51
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Point very well taken. I wasn't asking if it was 100% correct. I know it's not. However, not being 100% factory fresh doesn't make it worthless. I feel like I got an excellent head and an equally good bracelet.

Same thing happened on a 1680 a couple years ago, but in the opposite way. I found a watch with a service insert on a leather strap. The price was incredible, but asked the seller if he had the original insert and bracelet. He just kept telling me "I kept whatever they took off and you can have it. I don't know what 'original insert' means."

A few days later an uninsured ($4 postage) package shows up in the mail. Original insert, crystal, bracelet and a one month old service receipt for $1200.

What I thought I bought, vs. what I got:

I know you weren't asking if it was 100% correct. I answered the general question about what other readers/collectors would do, and I said since it isn't correct, I'd pass. I also didn't say it was 'worthless'.
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Old 22 December 2017, 03:38 AM   #52
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Great piece. Keep it!
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Old 22 December 2017, 04:21 AM   #53
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I know you weren't asking if it was 100% correct. I answered the general question about what other readers/collectors would do, and I said since it isn't correct, I'd pass. I also didn't say it was 'worthless'.
Hey no worries...online words written vs. interpreted are often different. I'll 100% agree that the time spent is irrelevant, but the condition is what really got me split on the decision. If it was meh, I would have sent it back right away. "Problem" is that it's immaculate and I can't find a bark bracelet this good (for sale) no matter where I look it seems.

Well, there is one in same condition available on the Bay...bargain, right?! ;)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-R...kAAOSwB4BaHsWa
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Old 22 December 2017, 10:56 PM   #54
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Hey no worries...online words written vs. interpreted are often different. I'll 100% agree that the time spent is irrelevant, but the condition is what really got me split on the decision. If it was meh, I would have sent it back right away. "Problem" is that it's immaculate and I can't find a bark bracelet this good (for sale) no matter where I look it seems.

Well, there is one in same condition available on the Bay...bargain, right?! ;)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-R...kAAOSwB4BaHsWa
No problem! The condition is great, agreed. Just know that selling it on won't be so straight-forward. Meantime - enjoy
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Old 15 October 2018, 12:22 PM   #55
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Looking at this from my viewpoint, I would keep it.

As you know, finding a bark bracelet in that condition is a lot of work. Not a lot of bark out there and most of what is out there is a lot closer to the end of its life than I am. I have been looking on-and-off for a 18248 with a decent bracelet, and the going is slow. The search is fun, but there is a lot of junk out there. The bracelet on your watch is as close to unused as I have ever seen.
Farscott, not sure if you're still following this thread or if you're still looking for a 18248, but I've been looking for a 18238 for a while and I ran across this 18248 at the Tourneau pre-owned case in Manhattan on 53rd and Madison. I've seen gone back twice to admire it. Truly New Old Stock. Lovely. Crisp. Fantastic. I never considered myself to be a Bark Guy, but, I'm really digging this watch.

http://www.tourneau.com/watches/pre-...RX9710028.html
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Old 15 October 2018, 09:21 PM   #56
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Farscott, not sure if you're still following this thread or if you're still looking for a 18248, but I've been looking for a 18238 for a while and I ran across this 18248 at the Tourneau pre-owned case in Manhattan on 53rd and Madison. I've seen gone back twice to admire it. Truly New Old Stock. Lovely. Crisp. Fantastic. I never considered myself to be a Bark Guy, but, I'm really digging this watch.

http://www.tourneau.com/watches/pre-...RX9710028.html
Thanks for the link. The bark looks much better in the flesh than in pictures. That looks to be a very nice 18248.
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Old 15 October 2018, 11:59 PM   #57
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Ok folks, need some URGENT advice. I had a closer inspection of the watch yesterday. It still has a case sticker on the back, and in just the right light I can make out 18238. I pop off the bracelet, and sure enough, it's an 18238. I was searching for a white dial 18248. The seller was apologetic and offered a full refund right away. He explained that he simply never noticed and had bought the watch like this from Paul Duggan years ago (apparently a well known dealer), and from the seller's reviews and history, I entirely believe him.

So here's the question: Should this matter all that much? The watch has the exact look and in the condition I've been searching for for well over a year. If I ever come to sell, would that be a sticking point? I'm torn on the importance of a single case digit that only denotes a different bezel. However, the bark bezel and bracelet were obviously swapped over at some point. I see a "U1" on the clasp which I believe is around 1997. I believe the watch is a 1990. Bracelet is pristine, as is the bezel. Also, I so rarely come across this dial. Truly torn on what to do. If it were an old Sub with a newer Oyster bracelet I don't think many would bat an eye; in fact they might see it as a improvement.

What would you do in my shoes?
There is no such thing as 18248... 18238 is correct....
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Old 16 October 2018, 01:14 AM   #58
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Arrived!

I was too excited to set the time before trying it on and snapping a pic. Rare that a piece arrives better than as described, but this is just that. Found out there was an extra link in the bracelet vs. the desription (score!) and that it was serviced at the end of 2015.
Gorgeous watch! Wear it in good health!
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Old 16 October 2018, 09:17 AM   #59
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Congrats on a great new watch
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Old 16 October 2018, 10:07 AM   #60
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There is no such thing as 18248... 18238 is correct....
Um, there is definitely such thing as an 18248.
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