1958 Rolex 6538 question

[fflump]

Hello-I've been offered this for sale. Aside from rather an clean inside of the caseback it looks OK to me but would welcome some other opinions from true experts.
Thanks for any advice offered..

[Juhuatai]

How much are they asking?

[fflump]

Just over $40,000

[roh123]

I’d be very careful.

[Glosstritium]

That looks fantastic even the unpolished lugs but to rich for my blood lol

[fflump]

Originally Posted by roh123

I’d be very careful.

I am hence posting here 😊
Does anything look amiss?

[Glosstritium]

For 40k get every detail pic, even as far as each lug view from top and side view to close up detail of the dial and people on here can help you better...

[fflump]

Thanks will upload more pics tonight

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by fflump

I am hence posting here ��
Does anything look amiss?

Yes, everything.

No need for more pictures. It’s fake. I’ve reported this monstrosity on eBay 3 times, every time it’s pulled and relisted. The seller knows it’s fake. The only Rolex part on that is the movement. Case is artificially aged with a bit of sandpaper.

[Glosstritium]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Yes, everything.

No need for more pictures. It’s fake. I’ve reported this monstrosity on eBay 3 times, every time it’s pulled and relisted. The seller knows it’s fake. The only Rolex part on that is the movement. Case is artificially aged with a bit of sandpaper.

Yikes it looks so good and original.. How did you come to the conclusion it's all fake? Just curious since knowledge is key

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Yes, everything.

No need for more pictures. It’s fake. I’ve reported this monstrosity on eBay 3 times, every time it’s pulled and relisted. The seller knows it’s fake. The only Rolex part on that is the movement. Case is artificially aged with a bit of sandpaper.

And this is proof of how valuable this forum is

[05carbondrz]

When a 100K Watch is offered for 40K....Something is wrong.

[dhknola]

yeah, what ^^ said; a pristine example sold for 1/2 mil this weekend; 40k sounds too good to be true.

[Kingface66]

Who offered it to you? It seems to be available for $77K at Chrono24

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id11016693.htm

[fflump]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Who offered it to you? It seems to be available for $77K at Chrono24

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/subma...id11016693.htm

This very person offered it to me. I believe that they believe it is genuine. They tried auctioning it at eBay and did not get the price they were looking for.

Very interested as to what is so obvious-especially the 2 line dial.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by fflump

This very person offered it to me. I believe that they believe it is genuine. They tried auctioning it at eBay and did not get the price they were looking for.

Very interested as to what is so obvious-especially the 2 line dial.

He’s well aware it’s a fake.

[fflump]

interesting.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by fflump

Very interested as to what is so obvious-especially the 2 line dial.

Dial is very good. However it’s not right. Looks like it’s from a well know Vietnamese dial maker/fake parts supplier.

Hands shape isn’t right. Sloppy lume application, look at the ‘Y’ section of the hour hand, lume is dripping over the front. Seconds hand is also far too high on the pinion.

Insert. Fonts are off for a red triangle. Red triangle has been added to a later insert. You can actually see the red section flaking off on the left hand side on the pictures on chrono24. This wouldn’t happen on the genuine part, it’s anodised.

Bezel. It’s off. Shape is wrong.

Crystal. Far too pristine to be original. Wrong shape to be a service crystal.

Case. Shape is off. Looks like it was milled yesterday. Far too sharp for a 60 year old watch. No wear between lugs/serial engraving where the bracelet would rub. No wear the back of lugs where endlinks rub. Lug holes are too sharp, look like they were drilled yesterday. Pictures not good enough to see engravings clearly. But this means nothing, some factory engravings we’re all over the place.

Case back. Stampings are slightly off in font sizes. No service marks on a 60 year old watch, not definitive but suspect.

The only wear on this thing is where seller has taken a bit of sandpaper to it in an attempt to make it look worn, and a bad job he has done.

[vintagetudor]

Knowledge is King

[fflump]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Dial is very good. However it’s not right. Looks like it’s from a well know Vietnamese dial maker/fake parts supplier.

Hands shape isn’t right. Sloppy lume application, look at the ‘Y’ section of the hour hand, lume is dripping over the front. Seconds hand is also far too high on the pinion.

Insert. Fonts are off for a red triangle. Red triangle has been added to a later insert. You can actually see the red section flaking off on the left hand side on the pictures on chrono24. This wouldn’t happen on the genuine part, it’s anodised.

Bezel. It’s off. Shape is wrong.

Crystal. Far too pristine to be original. Wrong shape to be a service crystal.

Case. Shape is off. Looks like it was milled yesterday. Far too sharp for a 60 year old watch. No wear between lugs/serial engraving where the bracelet would rub. No wear the back of lugs where endlinks rub. Lug holes are too sharp, look like they were drilled yesterday. Pictures not good enough to see engravings clearly. But this means nothing, some factory engravings we’re all over the place.

Case back. Stampings are slightly off in font sizes. No service marks on a 60 year old watch, not definitive but suspect.

The only wear on this thing is where seller has taken a bit of sandpaper to it in an attempt to make it look worn, and a bad job he has done.

Thanks @antrolexsub. Superb knowledge! Only the case condition and the high second hand caught my eye. Completely fooled by the dial.
Agree the pristine case + sandpaper is not a good look. There are plenty of ways to convincingly age a case but they take time and obv. not to be discussed here!

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by fflump

Thanks @antrolexsub. Superb knowledge! Only the case condition and the high second hand caught my eye. Completely fooled by the dial.
Agree the pristine case + sandpaper is not a good look. There are plenty of ways to convincingly age a case but they take time and obv. not to be discussed here!

I’m glad I could help.

I’ve spoken to Chrono24, they've taken it down.

[SunTzu]

Crazy, glad you didn't get snookered.

I've reported on eBay dozens of zero feedback sellers selling brand new in box Tudors and Rolex for like $1,500. But they keep popping up over and over.

It's why if you're buying a heavy watch like that, stick to a reputable dealer. My boss purchases rare, top grade coins, and many times they are sent to him to view in person to fully inspect. Once in a while they come via Brinks truck. If he's satisfied, he pays, if not, the seller makes arrangements to pick them up. I wonder if this can apply to watches? I'm not certain.

[Mrpupsi]

Just sold on eBay a few days ago for £15k

[fflump]

Originally Posted by SunTzu

Crazy, glad you didn't get snookered.

I've reported on eBay dozens of zero feedback sellers selling brand new in box Tudors and Rolex for like $1,500. But they keep popping up over and over.

It's why if you're buying a heavy watch like that, stick to a reputable dealer. My boss purchases rare, top grade coins, and many times they are sent to him to view in person to fully inspect. Once in a while they come via Brinks truck. If he's satisfied, he pays, if not, the seller makes arrangements to pick them up. I wonder if this can apply to watches? I'm not certain.

Chrono24 uses an escrow service, but never 'stress-tested' it!
TBH both chrono24 and eBay are good sources of genuine watches if you go in with your eyes open and only buy what you really know about, especially if it has no papers.

[05carbondrz]

Originally Posted by fflump

Chrono24 uses an escrow service, but never 'stress-tested' it!
TBH both chrono24 and eBay are good sources of genuine watches if you go in with your eyes open and only buy what you really know about, especially if it has no papers.

Says the Guy who almost got duped on a Vietnam special.

[Kingsking]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Dial is very good. However it’s not right. Looks like it’s from a well know Vietnamese dial maker/fake parts supplier.

Hands shape isn’t right. Sloppy lume application, look at the ‘Y’ section of the hour hand, lume is dripping over the front. Seconds hand is also far too high on the pinion.

Insert. Fonts are off for a red triangle. Red triangle has been added to a later insert. You can actually see the red section flaking off on the left hand side on the pictures on chrono24. This wouldn’t happen on the genuine part, it’s anodised.

Bezel. It’s off. Shape is wrong.

Crystal. Far too pristine to be original. Wrong shape to be a service crystal.

Case. Shape is off. Looks like it was milled yesterday. Far too sharp for a 60 year old watch. No wear between lugs/serial engraving where the bracelet would rub. No wear the back of lugs where endlinks rub. Lug holes are too sharp, look like they were drilled yesterday. Pictures not good enough to see engravings clearly. But this means nothing, some factory engravings we’re all over the place.

Case back. Stampings are slightly off in font sizes. No service marks on a 60 year old watch, not definitive but suspect.

The only wear on this thing is where seller has taken a bit of sandpaper to it in an attempt to make it look worn, and a bad job he has done.

impressive

[fflump]

Originally Posted by 05carbondrz

Says the Guy who almost got duped on a Vietnam special.

Almost in what way?
I was out of my comfort zone so posted here
Never even close to being duped👍
Turned over 120k of watches in the last 18 months bought on eBay, Chrono24 and gumtree and not duped once (touch wood)