Buyer insists on using PayPal

[jms_w]

I have a buyer in Australia interested in a watch I'm selling but he insists on using PayPal despite the additional fees and claims that he cannot do a wire transfer from his bank. I really don't believe the latter is true but maybe he justs wants to use a credit card to protect himself. Is there any safe way for me to accept a PayPal payment? Or is there another safe alternative payment method? In addition, what is the best way to ship the watch to Australia? I apologize for all the newbee questions. This will be my first flip. From what I've read PayPal is bad for the seller.

[Gaijin]

If you have a bad feeling on this one then I would pass. Paypal does protect the buyer. He could claim a number of things. Like you sent him a rock, or not the watch you agreed upon, then mail you back a POS and Paypal will back him up. I would never use paypal except to pay pledge member donations here on TRF.

Wire transfers if I buy or sell Rolex.

[Mystro]

I also perfer to use Paypal and generally agree to split the fees. Its pretty standard practice.

[s14roller]

Do you know this person? I wouldn't send a watch to someone I don't know outside of the country with Paypal.

The fact that he tells you his bank can't do a wire transfer should be worrisome enough...

[beshannon]

As a seller I always stand on my terms for sale, period.

As for selling via Paypal and shipping internationally most of the way around the world, I guess that is your call.

[superdog]

PayPal offers great protection for buyers and very little for sellers.

I've heard of quite a few scams where PayPal sided with the buyer and the seller neither got product or their cash back.

If you are not comfortable, listen to your gut.

[Presa canary]

I wouldn't be willing to undergo the headache. I would never ship out of the the country. Trust your gut as already stated. Talk to the guy on the phone. You should be able to get a idea of his intentions. Or just wait and sell it stateside.

[Takemusu]

I think you nailed it with the easy credit card payment option. He probably doesn't have ready cash for the purchase. Plus, I'm sure he feels that between his credit card and PayPal he is doubly protected.

Stick to your instincts as others have rightly stated.

[dysondiver]

look at it from his point too ,,, never met ,, other side of the word ,,, you may actually send him a rock ,,,, at least hes protected ,,,
my vote ,,, find some one local.
if it starts bad ,, it isnt worth the head melt and worry till it is sorted.

[ROLEX520]

I have been using paypal for years buying and selling and have never had any problems from a seller nor buyer side. You can not use credit cards using paypal they take the buyers money directly from their bank account.

I also would prefer to use paypal…Buyers have more to lose without viewing the item. I can't speak for him but if i get what I paid for I would never lie about it and cheat the seller.

Another thing you can do is view his or her profile. See if they are confirmed buyers. and look at his ratings. If he has good ratings most likely you will be fine.

I would also suggest that if you decide to use paypal let him know he must pay the fees so lets say you are selling for $100 but paypal takes $5 out of it. Bump up the price to $105 for the sale.

Cheers

[Takemusu]

Originally Posted by ROLEX520

You can not use credit cards using paypal they take the buyers money directly from their bank account.

I don't think this is true. I've purchased many things online with PalPal, and ONLY through a credit card.

[c.capt]

Originally Posted by Takemusu

I don't think this is true. I've purchased many things online with PalPal, and ONLY through a credit card.

+1. I pay with PayPal using my credit card all the time. Not just for little purchases either, I've bought many watches ($2000+) using the credit card through PayPal.

[Wesley Crusher]

This is a tough situation. Both buyers and sellers have a lot to lose. Personally, I am not comfortable with wire transfers so I insist on using paypal. As a seller, I also prefer to use paypal, even though they have a tendency to side with the buyer if anything goes wrong. Having said that, if you make sure to cover yourself (e.g., producing proof that you shipped the package, insuring it and requiring somebody to sign for it upon delivery), paypal will likely side with you (the seller). What you can do is, upon receiving the payment, immediately transfer it into your bank account and wait for the funds to clear. Once that happens, transfer it to a separate account that is not linked to your paypal account. By doing this, in the instance that something goes wrong, paypal will not be able to yank the money from your account. Your paypal account will show a negative balance, but you will at least have the money and you can explain to paypal what is going on. Trust me, something similar recently happened to me.

Having said all of that, I simply do not do international deals (as a buyer or a seller). There is too much to lose. Personally, I would walk away from the deal, but it is up to you.

Here are some questions that you should ask yourself:

1) Who is the buyer? Have you looked him up using his name or email to verify who he is? You can use pipl.com for this

2) Is he a long-standing member of whatever website you are using to sell your watch?

3) Does he have history of positive transactions?

If you answered "no" to any of those questions or if, for some reason, the buyer does not check out (or if you cannot find any info on him), walk away from the deal.

Good luck.

[KBM]

Just to lend a little perspective, here in Brazil we also have an extremely difficult time sending wire transfers abroad. It's not that the bank can't do it, but rather we have to register an exchange contract with the Central Bank of Brazil, with full justification of why you are sending money abroad, before the bank is willing to do the transfer. It is a huge hassle, which is the reason why I always ask if Paypal is an option as well.

[AK797]

Paypal/ebay is for buyers not sellers. Any scam pulled by a slightly clever buyer will almost certainly be favoured by paypal, their job is to protect buyers not sellers, that's how they and ebay can exist as once trust is gone from buyers ebay and paypal is finished. I would only do bank transfer or cash on collection.

[MonBK]

Wire transfer only.

[Cuts33]

I have done 1000's of transactions with 1 issue to ever come up from a dishonest buyer. UPS left the item at the person's house and they claimed they never got it. PayPal sided with the buyer because it was valued at over $100 and I did not require a signature.

That will teach you to read the fine print.

If you follow PayPal's guidelines to a T, they will back you up as a seller.

The extra caution I take though is to have my wife film me at FedEx or UPS and get close ups of the watch, serial number, etc and keep filming while the watch is packaged and labeled. I then sign my initials over the crease in the box and stop the tape once the person takes the package and puts it in the out bin behind the counter.

I keep the video until I get the email from the buyer letting me know everything was received and all is good.

[Lgear080]

Have you guys never heard of the gift option?

That's an option as you're clearly getting phished.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

If you follow PayPal's guidelines to a T, they will back you up as a seller.

Nope, just a few weeks ago I sold something on ebay, buyer wasn't happy, opened a case and my money was frozen, so I agreed to a return for a refund and the seller sent it back but without recorded/tracking delivery which ebay/paypal always advises. So as a test I claimed I didn't get the item and there was no record of it ever having been posted, but nevertheless a few days later ebay refunded the buyer and didn't care whether I got my item back or not. Such an easy scam can be pulled by a buyer here.

They absolutely do not care about sellers, only buyers, even when a buyer breaks their most basic rule.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Lgear080

Have you guys never heard of the gift option?

That's an option as you're clearly getting phished.

Some countries like Germany don't have the gift option and many buyers won't use it as they want the protection.

[LandLawMan]

Originally Posted by s14roller

Do you know this person? I wouldn't send a watch to someone I don't know outside of the country with Paypal.

The fact that he tells you his bank can't do a wire transfer should be worrisome enough...

It's worse than that, sir.

As a transactions attorney, I send and received dozens of wires (literally) each and every week, to and from the USA, China, the UAE, Australia, Brazil, South Africa, Russia and everywhere between.

Every single time we are told "I cannot send a wire", we discover that the REAL reason is because the sender is fraudulent or is a scammer, or because the sender doesn't want to be "flagged" by the US Federal Reserve and/or the IRS.

Either way, we want nothing whatsoever to do with someone who says that they CAN afford the transaction, but CAN'T send a wire. It's 100% bologna.

The only exception to that rule, is when a legitimate sender banks at a blacklisted jurisdiction. Australia, it goes without saying, is most assuredly NOT on that list. The sender might have an undisclosed personal reason why she doesn't want to send a wire. But "My bank can't send one" is laughable.

[ndsleep612]

Originally Posted by jms_w

I have a buyer in Australia interested in a watch I'm selling but he insists on using PayPal despite the additional fees and claims that he cannot do a wire transfer from his bank. I really don't believe the latter is true but maybe he justs wants to use a credit card to protect himself. Is there any safe way for me to accept a PayPal payment? Or is there another safe alternative payment method? In addition, what is the best way to ship the watch to Australia? I apologize for all the newbee questions. This will be my first flip. From what I've read PayPal is bad for the seller.

Anyone that claims that their bank "cannot" do wire transfers is a scammer. Paypal is so full of "Blah" that no one in their right mind uses them anymore besides buying on ebay.

Have patience, a real buyer will show up soon enough.

[cruvon]

I have sent wire transfers by bank from Oz before. I usually use it only for bigger transactions because the banks slug a $15-25 fee and more depending on the amount, for transfers. Now I have switched to xe.com which is fee free but takes time to setup initially. What's the approximate value of the transaction?

[joe100]

WT only unless you know the person

[Lgear080]

My point was... No gift, no paypal. Though I'd fully contend that
Any mention of inability to wire is an immediate red flag pass.

[Shade]

I only sell locally, or to well known trusted members here.

[Cesium133]

If you're having doubts, walk away. If you're on the fence, is it possible to insure the watch and then file a claim that the watch was stolen if the buyer turned out to be a scammer and gets the watch and then opens a claim with PP to get a refund?

[srvrf]

I'll echo everyone else's comments. Listen to that voice that made you write the thread. Walk away. Browsing through your signature, you have a lot of great watches. Someone in the CONUS will buy it. I know that it kind of sucks to limit your sale geographically, but when we are talking values in the thousands, you have to protect yourself. I like to buy and sell from longstanding members of TRF, TimeZone, and WUS. We are all new at one point, but the established people value their online reputation and won't jeopardize it for a few quick bucks. Plus, when you and a buyer have communicated a bit and both are comfortable, that's where I feel that FaceBook, LinkedIn and general web searching are valuable to both parties to prove your identity and verify the other party.

Be patient and wait for a buyer with whom you're more comfortable. That no-wire thing is BS.

[Lgear080]

Insurance often does not cover items willfully released from possession
Due to fraud. Gotta read the fine print.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

If you have a bad feeling on this one then I would pass. Paypal does protect the buyer. He could claim a number of things. Like you sent him a rock, or not the watch you agreed upon, then mail you back a POS and Paypal will back him up. I would never use paypal except to pay pledge member donations here on TRF.

Wire transfers if I buy or sell Rolex.

Sorry I meant to say Paypal does not protect the seller.