In house movement VS ETA???

[Trurolexer]

Originally Posted by argee1977

This isn't saying that Rolex are cheap, it's just a case of all watches being overpriced when you reach this price level, for me there isn't several thousands worth of materials or design in any of the Rolexes, Panerais, Audemars, etc, etc, but we pay the money because we like the watch, and with brands like Rolex and Panerai we know we can get the money back when we sell as they don't depreciate as fast as other makes.

X2!!!

[tuisquash]

Originally Posted by argee1977

to be honest, rolex have used the same movements for a generation, the designs are in some areas nearly 50 years old with slight tweaks every so often (quick set, etc). The actual cost per movement for rolex these days i doubt is more than an eta that is modified by the others.

This isn't saying that rolex are cheap, it's just a case of all watches being overpriced when you reach this price level, for me there isn't several thousands worth of materials or design in any of the rolexes, panerais, audemars, etc, etc, but we pay the money because we like the watch, and with brands like rolex and panerai we know we can get the money back when we sell as they don't depreciate as fast as other makes.

x3

[rajurama]

Originally Posted by jeangtd

MMM you buy a 5000 dollar watch with a caliber that can be found on a 500 dollar watch. I just cant cope with that, that's why I never bought a panny, had the money for one a month ago and still went for a JLC, but now seriously looking at the new 312, love the styling, exclusive to panny caliber, it's going to be a great addition to my collection, Im not crazy about the size, but i guess i need one big watch in my box, and with an in house movement, i know no 500 dollar watch has it.

[Lol-x]

I think you will still find the Pam177 cheaper than Pams with inhouse movements.

Look at it this way the PAM177 has basically the same movement as the PAM127, so on that basis the PAM177 is awesome value for money..........

My 177 has not let me down in the last 2 years, its a great watch to wear and enjoy. If it smiles at you then grab it, it will not let you down, even if you do later wish to sell it for something else.

[CorruptedSanity]

I know this thread is old but the topic is not (yet).

I went back and forth between several Panerais (pl=Panerii??) before settling for what I got.

For the cost of the in house movements, I would prefer to first secure the items on my wish list in the same price as the 233/270 such as a Vacheron Constantin Overseas in GMT or the AP ROO, several Jaeger Le Coultre. Im not saying the mentioned watches look better or are better watches than any Panerai. Im saying that for what they are charging for Manifattura I would rather get other watches first. I was also very interested in the PAM177 as it had most of what I wanted in a Panerai except an inhouse movement and a 1950 case (+ super dome crystal). I wanted a 1950 cased Panerai with an inhouse movement for a price that truly reflects the movement as opposed to a price that is inflated due to popularity of the brand and to compete with other major watch brands.
I know that ETA movements are tried and tested and near perfect, especially when a brand like Panerai mofidies it too but still, there are IWCs with ETA movements that are decades old and are cheaper than a Panerai 177 for example. I feel the fiscal value is not worth the product itself. But what do I know about valuating ? I own a $150,000 911. To each his own.
So I put off buying a Panerai and acquired a really nice Rolex Milgauss GV and an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak as I felt they were both worth the price being charged. Then they released the PAM312 which I picked up instantly as it had everything except the super dome crystal. Sandwich dial, inhouse movement, date, clear dial, 1950 case and a moderately domed crystal and all this for between $5,500 and $6,000. Perfect Panerai IMO.

[ocwatching]

for the reasons above...the 312 pushed me to the dark side...
and I don't have any issues loving Pam/Rolex/Omega...

the release of the 312 was a great move by Panerai...

[htc8p]

like you i am paneristi by heart but technically a rolexer. it like being ambidextrous.

you better hurry pam prices just went up!

[drtooth73]

Raju: try on both 177 and 111 before you buy.
Also, regarding ETA vs inhouse- at this stage I believe ETA is way more reliable.

[johnswatch]

drtooth makes a very good point.

One of the in-house PAMs,(233 I think?) has had quite a few problems. It's important to remember that Panerai produces very few watches (a lot less than Rolex, Breitling or Omega) and to have loads of people mention problems suggests that a high proportion of watches are affected. I popped into an AD yesterday to purchase a 312 and noticed that it had some minor issues and went and bought a 112 instead. If the movement tunred out to be flawed then the price and desirability of the 312 would plummet as well as sticking you with massive bills outside any warranty period.

Regarding the in-house vs outsourced movements - The Rolex movements are essentially unchanged in over 25 years. Not a lot of R&D since then it seems.

But then we're all correct. The in-house IS more desirable. Period.

Better though? Only you can decide.

For the price of a 312 you could just about pick up the classic PAM 112 and a used submariner.

[CorruptedSanity]

Originally Posted by johnswatch

I popped into an AD yesterday to purchase a 312 and noticed that it had some minor issues and went and bought a 112 instead.

How did you notice minor issues with the 312?

[dantheman20192]

Originally Posted by SaifAlSuwaidi

How did you notice minor issues with the 312?

Agreed, he is just trying to satisfy his decision choosing the 112. the 312 is a far superior piece full stop. If i want a pocket watch i will get a rado from JJ LOL

[CorruptedSanity]

Dan, well he so confidently stated he - noticed minor issues -.
Ok, am sure hes not bluffing, he cant be bluffing with the tone he spoke in.

So I would like to know what issues because I got a 312 and would like to avoid any future complications but checking mine now.

[johnswatch]

The 312 is a fantastic looking piece.

Unfortunately the one I saw had a slightly mis-cut date window and the date didn't seem to line up consistently. A tiny blemish and one very easily fixed but would have driven me crazy and required a trip to a service centre for warranty work.

It could well be the reason that AD had one oin stock when the other had a massive waiting list.

Regardless, I'm very happy and satisfied with my 112.

[CorruptedSanity]

John, maybe it was a busted up display peiece ? Display peices can end up being loose and not in perfect condition. I honestly push any display peice to its limit (whether its a watch, shoe and especially a car) to see how sturdy or solid it is. But this one faulty watch doesnt mean all 312s are faulty. Mine isnt for sure. As Dan said, kinda seems like you're justifying the cheaper watch ( not less nice but cheaper ).
Glad you are happy with your 112.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by dantheman20192

Agreed, he is just trying to satisfy his decision choosing the 112. the 312 is a far superior piece full stop. If i want a pocket watch i will get a rado from JJ LOL

A basic Luminor is essential in any collection.The 112 is a great choice.Nothing like the manual wind of a PAM in the morning.

[johnswatch]

Originally Posted by SaifAlSuwaidi

John, maybe it was a busted up display peiece ? Display peices can end up being loose and not in perfect condition.

As Dan said, kinda seems like you're justifying the cheaper watch ( not less nice but cheaper ).
Glad you are happy with your 112.

It's quite possible that it was a return.

Justifying the purchase of the cheaper watch? I don't need to justify it. I can afford the 312 and had they had one in without any blemishes I would have pulled the trigger. I've obviously misjudged the tone of my messages as there seems to be a bit of hostility here.

I'm playing devil's advocate as I think there's a general consensus that in-house must be better without any objective evidence.

Why isn't the 312 COSC? Why is there NO detailed technical information available on the movment. How is it different to a regular ETA auto? Does it use a unique innovative gear train that extends service intervals? Has it been designed for ease of service? Does it use 'standard' gears that would be available should Panerai go out of business?

I'm happy to pay extra for exclusivity alone but it seems it's others who are using the new calibre to justify spending all that extra cash without any appreciation of why the movement warrants that extra cash.

Why can't we all just admit it. We're not in it for the technical excellence or we'd all be wearing Seiko Spring Drives....it's a luxury good and that's all about status and exclusivity.

One point though - the Unitas movement in my 112 was a pocket watch movement developed in the 1950s. Who in the 50's was still wearing pocket watches?

[uscmex]

does it bother you that VW shares parts with Porsche? or that Lexus is mostly a Toyota under the hood? Its all about perception. I think eta vs in house is a bot played out on the marketing side but ETA is a proven winner..

[RedBaronF2001]

The reason a lot of us here buy Rolexes is due to the fact that they have in-house movements in them. We are comfortable with this because Rolex has a stellar reputation for producing accurate and robust movements.

Panerai made the decision early on within the Richemont group that they wanted to be build their own movements. They have done so with the 2002/3/4/5 and now the P.9000 series. How are these series better than ETA? I don't know yet, but I'm basing my decision to own a new in-house powered Panerai based solely on their reputation.

I'm sure that there was some fuss when Rolex they installed their own chronograph movement in the Daytona. Would it work? Would it be stout? Will it be accurate? Look at it now.

They don't submit their new movements to COSC because they put them through their own testing process that is as rigorous if not more.

So far my 312 is +1 second a day.

[dantheman20192]

Originally Posted by RedBaronF2001

The reason a lot of us here buy Rolexes is due to the fact that they have in-house movements in them. We are comfortable with this because Rolex has a stellar reputation for producing accurate and robust movements.

Panerai made the decision early on within the Richemont group that they wanted to be build their own movements. They have done so with the 2002/3/4/5 and now the P.9000 series. How are these series better than ETA? I don't know yet, but I'm basing my decision to own a new in-house powered Panerai based solely on their reputation.

I'm sure that there was some fuss when Rolex they installed their own chronograph movement in the Daytona. Would it work? Would it be stout? Will it be accurate? Look at it now.

They don't submit their new movements to COSC because they put them through their own testing process that is as rigorous if not more.

So far my 312 is +1 second a day.

Amen to that..... Also if you buy a watch for status you are barking up the wrong tree 99.9 percent of people could not give 2 shits about what you are wearing on your wrist. Buy a better house, car or maybe even underpants if you want some increased status amongst your peers and buy a rolex/pannie if your into horology and the great hobby that it is.