The Inconvenient Truth about the World's First Waterproof Watch

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by LRF

That is odd, I certainly did not remove the pictures.

Here they are again.

Links have gone again so I'll upload them here as I saved them from your previous posts.

[LRF]

ROLEX COPIES DEPOLLIER AGAIN!!!

Once again, a Charles Depollier innovation was copied by Rolex, this time Depollier did it 83 YEARS BEFORE Rolex! In 2001 Rolex began putting a security measure on their watch crystals to combat counterfeiting. They laser etched the "crown" logo onto the crystal. But, Charles Depollier started doing this all the way back in April of 1918, 105 YEARS AGO, but not through the use of a laser obviously, it was stamped.

In October of 1917 Depollier registered the trademark name "KHAKI" for his line of technologically advanced line military trench watches. This was one of the GREATEST names ever conceived for a wrist watch, just ask Hamilton as they use it today. MANY companies attempted to illegally use Depollier's trademarked name "KHAKI" and started calling their watches "Khaki Watches", it was rampant.

So, Depollier came up with a way to ensure confidence with buyers, he wanted them to know that they were in fact purchasing a genuine Depollier "KHAKI" wrist watch. His idea was freaking genius! He stamped "KHAKI. REG. USA." directly onto the crystal as a security measure, it was right next to the crown. Depollier also put the "KHAKI. REG. USA." stamp on the flat side of his winding crowns AND on his trademarked Khaki Straps Claps.

How many Charles Depollier horological innovations has Rolex copied now?

The list is getting rather long!

[LRF]

A great article titled "New Book Upends Watch History" was published in The Gentleman Racer this morning about Charles Depollier and his 1918 Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch.

The watch that completely CRUSHES Hans Wilsdorf's and Rolex's narrative that they created the "world's first waterproof watch" with the 1926 Oyster.

A few more articles like this are scheduled for the near future by well known publications so stay tuned!

https://www.thegentlemanracer.com/20...h-history.html

[LRF]

I believe somebody earlier in the post was asking for a "peer review" of my latest book, here you go.

Published today. Pretty exciting!!! Word about my latest book is still spreading around the world! A fantastic article about me and my research was just published in a rather prestigious magazine called Montres Heroes (Wristwatch Heroes in French). Just in time for the Watches & Wonders show in Geneva Switzerland, right in Rolex's back yard! Below is the English version that I translated. Actor Ryan Gosling is on this month's cover. ENJOY!!!


Having the paternity, the patent, the original idea, is almost the force of law in watchmaking. We thought the story of the waterproof watch perfectly clear, illuminated by the Rolex lighthouse. But now a Texas watchmaker, keen on history, reshuffles the cards, multiple documents in support.

Olivier Müller

A brief inattention from Google. That's all it took to lift a corner of the veil on an almost unprecedented – or even forbidden – watchmaking history. It is there, at the very end of the search page, that a strange link appears: "First waterproof watch: an inconvenient truth". Isn't the invention of the first waterproof watch widely documented? Rolex, the crossing of the English Channel in 1926 by Mercedes Gleitze, an Oyster on the wrist? The subject is indeed not debated, it is widely documented. Stan Czubernat does not question it. What he questions is what happened... before.
Passion for the trenches The man is a watchmaker in Spring, Texas. His passion: trench watches, those used during the First World War. In other words, the niche is narrow: between 1914 and 1918, the wristwatch is in its infancy, and its technical capabilities are far from being perfected, neither in terms of resistance nor precision. But it turns out that the manufacturers of the rare watches of this time are largely American. They are named Waltham, Elgin Hampden, Illinois & Hamilton. Stan Czubernat restored them... more than 2000. How could he have missed the mention "Waterproof" that adorns some cases? This is the starting point of an immense quest that stretches over 15 years. Because the man, far from a simple commentator, wanted to date and especially document the invention of the waterproof watch, which he presses as being well before the coup d'éclat of Rolex in 1926. And history proved him right, with a name: Charles Depollier.

Seven years ahead The first avenue that opened up to the watchmaker was that of an advertisement from October 13, 1919, 7 years before the Mercedes Gleitze crossing. We see a pilot, Roland Rohlfs, evoking a world altitude record reached with his plane, at 34,610 ft, with a Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch on his wrist. But the story does not end there: another officer, R.W. Shroeder, beats the record (36,130 ft) the following year... with the same watch on your wrist! No coincidence. His story was again advertised, published in April 1920 in The Keystone magazine. Where do these pieces come from? Stan Czubernat continues to pull the thread of history. He traces a 1918 order from the U.S. Army for 10,000 waterproof boxes from Dubois Watch Case, based in Brooklyn, New York, and founded in 1877. The order is perfectly documented and has the contract number 160615. But order waterproof boxes... does not prove that they were. Stan Czubernat therefore inquires about possible water resistance tests that would corroborate the assertion of real "waterproof" watches. Bingo: the man gets his hands on a conclusive test report dated a little later (June 1919) submitted to the War Secretary office. The tests concern parts from 1917-1918, and confirmed as watertight by another report submitted to a certain Benedict Russell of the same office, on May 10, 1919.

A life-saving trial Subsequently, his investigations will offer Stan Czubernat a lot of other information, since the man who designed these waterproof watches, Charles Depollier, found himself cited in a patent paternity lawsuit against one of his former collaborators. Stan Czubernat was able to get his hands on the full transcript of the minutes of the trial. It details, from the very mouth of the inventor, the entire manufacturing process and optimization of waterproof boxes. These minutes are not only textual: they include many deposits of drawings, dated technical plans, and even some patents that leave no possible gray area as to the invention of the waterproof watch. Historical treasures that were previously all buried in the United States National Archives and that Stan Czubernat patiently unearthed, one a year.

A story of a jar Such excavations have also uncovered some amusing anecdotes. The most seasoned remember, for example, the advertisement used by Rolex in the 30s, depicting a watch dipped in a jar. Its caption extolled the merits of the watch's water resistance, an "Original Precision Sports" - probably justified. Except that the same visual, with the same jar, and for the same principle, had been used by Charles Depollier for his own boxes... in 1918. The piece was then marketed by Waltham. The model associated with advertising, the Waltham Depollier of which Stan Czubernat has since restored several copies, was also hallmarked with a seal "Depollier Waterproof Watch, Trademark" in the center of which we clearly see a jar, two goldfish... and a watch immersed in between. Another interesting anecdote: all these parts are stamped "waterproof" and not "water resistant", as we can read today, because the term was imposed only in the middle of the twentieth century by the FTC, Federal Trade Commission.

"Taking over one by one all the American watch catalogues available during the First World War was a crazy challenge," says Stan Czubernat. "Some tracks were quite easy to follow and could be confirmed quite quickly. But others turned out to be dead ends in which I sometimes got lost for several years. Over the 15 years spent on the subject, the digitization of archives has come to me a great service, especially when I have been able to associate it with engines equipped with artificial intelligence. But conversely, it has also generated an extremely large amount of available sources. I know that I am still missing some references that I could not precisely date, but the Waltham Depollier "waterproof" is today perfectly documented and dated 1919, without the slightest ambiguity."

Watchmaking Holy Grail Finding the archive was one thing, but finding the watch as an object was another. Stan Czubernat has since had several copies in his hands, in an exceptional state of preservation. Since then, the watchmaker has been identified as the greatest specialist in these "trench watches". Several collectors brought him their own Waltham Depollier, corroborating his documentary research. Until that day in January 2021 when an amateur posted him photos of an atypical Depollier, with silver case and not nickel as was always the case. "Frankly, I thought I was going crazy!" smiles Stan Czubernat. "I thought I had pretty much covered the subject and, among the thousands of documents I had found, he did not have a single one mentioning this variation of case which, moreover, sported a crown quite different from the one we saw at the time."

Stan Czubernat physically received the piece at his studio a few days later. Without knowing it, he had just been delivered a prestige variation stamped "Thermo", with silver and 14-carat gold case. "I had never seen her. On no catalog, no photo, no magazine, no advertising, anywhere on the Internet, until today. It is to my knowledge the only Thermo in the world in this finish. I think there were some variations in style and crown for a very short period in 1918 but no such watch had survived until today." Would Depollier have also invented the waterproof watch... luxurious?

Olivier Müller

[brandrea]

This is an interesting thread Stan, thank you very much.

Now I’m about to sell Submariner

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Interesting article!

[gaheris]

Great work Stan. And congratulations on your book. I have learned something new today.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by LRF

Plus, these records get moved around the country. Everything is NOT housed in Washington DC. There are many other records depots around the country. Boxes get misplaced, accidently shipped to other depots, records are put into source material files for other reports and so on. I'm SO glad I did not give up! Took me almost 15 YEARS of research but the job got done and the book has been published.

It only takes 5 minutes on Google to find out that there is no such thing as a waterproof watch Stan.

Water resistant perhaps?

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Andad

It only takes 5 minutes on Google to find out that there is no such thing as a waterproof watch Stan.

Water resistant perhaps?

This is covered in the 5th paragraph of the translation of the article.

It is also discussed in the book.

The FTC regulations.

During WWI the US Army used the term "waterproof" so that is the term I used.

[vman]

Been reading these forums for over 15 years... And this is the first post that made me got "wow, this is freaking awesome!" Great work, mate!

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by vman

Been reading these forums for over 15 years... And this is the first post that made me got "wow, this is freaking awesome!" Great work, mate!

Yeah, I nominated this as the most interesting TRF thread of 2022: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=886129 (see post #12)

[77T]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yeah, I nominated this as the most interesting TRF thread of 2022: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=886129 (see post #12)

It is a most interesting thread, Adam. And glad to have read it a second time with the OPs new update from yesterday.

There are a lot of “firsts” in every industry that belonged to one who didn’t prevail in the commercial space.

The history of those deserving originators deserves to be told.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Andad]

Originally Posted by LRF

This is covered in the 5th paragraph of the translation of the article.

It is also discussed in the book.

The FTC regulations.

During WWI the US Army used the term "waterproof" so that is the term I used.

I read the paragraph Stan and that was my point.

The term waterproof was originally incorrect and could never stand when tested to depth.

Were any depth ratings ever stated on these original ‘waterproof’ watches or were they all tested in a basin of water?

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Andad

I read the paragraph Stan and that was my point.

The term waterproof was originally incorrect and could never stand when tested to depth.

Were any depth ratings ever stated on these original ‘waterproof’ watches or were they all tested in a basin of water?

They were all tested in a basin of water during the process.

In approximately 12 inches of water.

That includes testing at the Depollier factory, the United States National Bureau of Standards during official government testing, then the Army would do another 24 hour water test upon arrival before being issued to a soldier.

They were in fact tested "under pressure" according to Depollier but exactly how much pressure is still unknown.

I'll never stop looking for further details on this so hopefully one day I'll find the documents somewhere in the National Archives.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Yeah, I nominated this as the most interesting TRF thread of 2022: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=886129 (see post #12)

Glad you find my research interesting!

I do my best to make it entertaining with hard core facts all backed up by corroborating evidence so there is no doubt.

Thanks to everybody for their kind words about this story!

With this research I earned a NAWCC nomination from other members for a horological literary excellence and research award. The entire package is being sent to the NAWCC next week for review and judging by a 10 member panel. If my research is worthy, I'll find out at the NAWCC National Convention in mid July when the awards are given out at the annual banquet.

Wish me luck!

[Old Expat Beast]

Good luck!

[RW16610]

Excellent work, Stan! This was incredibly interesting to read and I'm glad you're doing this.

Best of luck to you regarding the NAWCC nomination! Please keep us posted.

[LRF]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Excellent work, Stan! This was incredibly interesting to read and I'm glad you're doing this.

Best of luck to you regarding the NAWCC nomination! Please keep us posted.

RW,

The 10 member NAWCC Awards Selection Committee found my research worthy of acknowledgement.

My name will now be on the wall of the National Watch & Clock Museum along with the previous winners of this award.

The NAWCC National Convention was a lot of fun with many memorable moments.

A few days ago somebody updated the Rolex Wiki page with the correct information on this topic.

[Rolextellstime]

This is possibly the greatest and best thread on this forum. Absolutely amazing work Stan and big congratulations to you. You deserve every reward you receive and I hope you get a lot of them.

I can't believe the rather little number of comments and views to such an amazing and important work and contribution to this forum.

The only explanation to me is that majority of people on here are hardcore Rolex fans who would rather ignore or reject your work and book than to face the reality.

Rolex should definitely apologize and remove all the false statements and advertisements.

Amazing work, thanks for your huge contribution to the watch community.

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk

[wristonly]

Originally Posted by LRF

RW,

The 10 member NAWCC Awards Selection Committee found my research worthy of acknowledgement.

My name will now be on the wall of the National Watch & Clock Museum along with the previous winners of this award.

The NAWCC National Convention was a lot of fun with many memorable moments.

A few days ago somebody updated the Rolex Wiki page with the correct information on this topic.

Congratulations man, that’s very impressive! Big ups


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DVR]

Originally Posted by Rolextellstime

hardcore Rolex fans

Most are just 'prestige' fans. Remove the name and all the brainwashing and not much is left.
It's impossible to simple "love" one brand if you truly are a WIS.

[CNY]

Originally Posted by LRF

RW,

The 10 member NAWCC Awards Selection Committee found my research worthy of acknowledgement.

My name will now be on the wall of the National Watch & Clock Museum along with the previous winners of this award.

The NAWCC National Convention was a lot of fun with many memorable moments.

A few days ago somebody updated the Rolex Wiki page with the correct information on this topic.

Well deserved. You should consider hosting a talk at Horological Society Of New York (HSNY)

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by LRF

"The Inconvenient Truth about the World's First Waterproof Watch, the Story of Charles Depollier and his Waterproof Trench Watches of the Great War"



For years the writers in the watch industry, watch magazines, the most renowned auction houses in the world, major newspapers and online watch media outlets have been giving you incorrect information about the true origins of waterproof wrist watch technology. They could not have gotten this story more wrong by saying Rolex was the one who developed this technology in 1926 with the Oyster. Military records have always been considered the "holy grail" of documentation, the benchmark of evidence. There is simply no way to put a spin on the date stamped military documents I've discovered in the United States National Archives. How can Rolex possibly account for Depollier's watch being successfully independently tested for waterproof ability, approved by the 7 member U.S. Army Executive Board and purchased (10,000 units) by the U.S. government 8 YEARS before they released the 1926 Oyster? They can't. My allegiance is to horological history and giving credit to the individuals who actually changed the industry, not to perpetuating fairy tales and myths.



This book (341 pages) proves that Charles Leon Depollier truly created the world's first waterproof wrist watch with the 1918 Waltham Depollier "Field & Marine" Waterproof Watch that did in fact feature a SCREW DOWN CROWN waterproof crown followed closely by the 1919 Waltham Depollier "THERMO" Waterproof Watch. The 4 different waterproof crown designs developed in the house of Depollier during the Great War years will be covered in detail. Evidence included is the complete trial transcript of the 1919 lawsuit between Charles Depollier vs Mortimer Golden. This is Charles Depollier's fascinating first hand account of how he developed waterproof wrist watch technology 8 years before Rolex in cooperation with high ranking officers of the United States Army Signal Corps Engineering & Research Division. Depollier's waterproof wrist watch case was independently tested in Washington D.C. by the United States National Bureau of Standards for its waterproof ability, it passed their tests with flying colors. The Bureau of Standard was America's first physical science laboratory, the proving grounds. All paper lawsuit exhibits from both parties are included, every page. Two official United States War Department reports corroborate Depollier's sworn court testimony. In one of these reports Two Star Major General George Squier informs the United States Secretary of War, Mr. Newton Baker, that the "watch could actually run for several weeks under water". Mr. Baker reported directly to President Woodrow Wilson. You will also read the correspondence of high ranking. U.S. Army officers discussing Depollier's waterproof wrist watch technology and how it would solve many of their problems in 1918. Also included are the Waltham Depollier trench watch advertisements and the non-waterproof Waltham Depollier military watches produced during the Great War era.



Now that this book has been published Rolex should remove their claim of creating the "world's first waterproof watch" with the 1926 Oyster from their webpage and marketing materials. It simply did not happen the way they tell the story.

Did your research extend to outwith the US Military archives?

[LRF]

CYN, DVR, WristOnly, RolexTellsTime,

Thank you very much for your kind words!

[LRF]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Did your research extend to outwith the US Military archives?

Yes, there are MANY U.S. Army documents that I found in the National Archives in the book.

These documents leave NO DOUBT as to how history actually happened.

[Easy E]

Quite amazing. Congratulations OP, nice work.

[winst]

Great work and a well deserved award. As a History Graduate and lover of horological I salute you Sir!

[AperolSpritz]

Spent most of this evening catching-up with this very interesting thread!

Congratulations Stan for this amazing research you did and for changing/correcting, forever the history of this hobby we all love, that is horology. It is trully impressive!

There is a picture of you with a bottle of Dom Perignon. The next time I have a chance, I'll order one and make a toast to you!

[Old Expat Beast]

Congratulations Stan, it's great to see you getting recognised for all your hard work and dedication. Bravo

[enjoythemusic]

Major congrats... from a member of the NAWCC. Glad the wiki page was updated as well.