My Diamond Dealer (1st) Experience

[jgrae]

See some ridiculously detailed background info about me in the “New Members” section, but it isn’t necessary for this post.

Would love to hear feedback because I don’t think my read on what happened is necessarily correct. My wife thought he didn’t really take me seriously until I (not really but seemingly) lost my temper. Anyway…enjoy
So I was down to the Smurf, WG Daytona, a DD. All great choices, I like them all.

My wife didn’t like the Smurf (from pictures) for some reason that still escapes me, she didn’t think it was unique enough maybe but watch people have a much more discerning eye than normies. I still held out some hope.
DD – both DD40 and DD2 were contenders. I had read that DD40 was more like 38.6mm IRL so I was slightly concerned but more importantly I had to figure out the dial. My favorite from pics was the ice blue with baguettes. After much hemming and hawing I concluded that the look felt too formal and flashy to me and I wouldn’t be able to wear it as much as I ought to. (The most expensive watch is the one you buy and never wear!). I really am not a fan of Romans on the DD2 or DD40 --- wife loves them, but I was firm on this. I think they look spectacular on the 36mm DD (and I like them on my Oysterquartz 17000), but I wasn’t interested in that size. For that reason DD40 diag motif with stick was the natural choice. I love the blue + smooth bezel, such a nice subtle flex.

Now three things counted against it: 1) Will it feel too small? 2) the thread about the new 32xx movements made me concerned 3) my wife didn’t really like the diag motif part and I kind of agree it makes it a little more flashy than I’d like.

That’s when I found this picture of a DD2 WG with stick. A very good price. Subtle, timeless, but baller. Wife loved it until she realized it’s a silver dial, not blue. Oh well…

https://cdn2.chrono24.com/images/uhr...wi5r2-Zoom.jpg

But there is one, I found literally one listing on Chrono24. https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/rolex...id20650241.htm The price was $97.5k whereas other DD2 were offered under 60k(china, which I don’t count and two private), I know there was an auction where a DD40 w/ baguettes sold for $55k (ty Vince_76).

I wonder whether it’s a desirable/rare dial so I google it best I can. I found two hits:

https://motionintime.com/product/rolex-218206-iblip/ (call for price)
https://www.jaztime.com/rolex-day-da...inum-president ($70k)

Jaztime was @70k so I know it’s not some special thing. After searching RolexForum for info on Jaztime I found the near unanimous recommendation to stay away. Perfect, thank you RolexForum, they are dead to me.

Very little I could find on MotionInTime(MIT) or SeaWaveDiamonds (SWD, the Chrono24 listing) but MIT seemed mixed/positive and SWD was mixed/negative.

I called both to confirm they had the watch in stock and for price (last Friday Jan9). I was quoted $69.5k from MIT, and $76k for the DD40 motif/stick. I’m happy to hear the dial I like certainly isn’t trading at a premium or anything. SWD quoted $68k for the DD2 and $70k for DD40. I mention to both I’d like to come in and see them, both said to call ahead. I called them both on Monday Jan9 saying I intded to stop in the next day in the afternoon. MIT first, they said they think they sold it. I didn’t push them on it because I knew there was another one. I called SWD, spoke with someone, they said they’d hold it. I didn’t have a ton of confidence that she’d pass along the message but I wasn’t so concerned because I thought the other place might still have it.

So really three main contenders for my trip to the Diamond District in NYC: Smurf, WG Daytona, DD2 motif, DD41 ice blue stick.
Drive 2.5hrs with my wife to NYC (okay, she drove. I hate driving in NYC).
First we go to MIT. Spoke with Roman, he was very nice. Unfortunately, he confirmed they sold it (I was a bit saddened). Showed me some other DD2 and DD40. When I tried on the DD40 I didn’t feel it wasn’t too small at all and aesthetically I think the 40mm proportions work better than the DD2. He let me see several pieces and it was very helpful. However, I wanted to see the DD2 w/ ice blue stick before making any decisions.

Next up SWD. I roll up and ask about the watch. Alex (the owner I think) said the watch was packed away headed towards a trade show. I explained I called about it on Friday and I called again on Monday to say I’d be there the next day (around 1-2pm) to see it (it was 2:30). The reaction kinda pissed me off as he shrugged his shoulders and was like, whatever. Kinda pisses me off, I drive 2.5hrs to specifically see a $68k watch that I confirmed was in stock and he doesn’t have it.

He shows me some other DD2, some with Romans (my wife prefers those, and in persona I hated them much less) but I told him I really wanted to see the Ice blue stick. He told me, and I’m approximating: “Rolex stores don’t have any inventory you can’t just come and try things on.” I got visibly upset and replied, “Yea, I know. That’s why I called to confirm you had this piece in stock and called again yesterday to tell you I was coming today to look at it!.” He could have at least given a token “sorry” but he said “you buy today?” That awful refrain I’ve heard from almost every Diamond District dealer I’ve attempted to visit (not Roman at Motion in Time, though!) – see my post on Jan12th in this thread
(https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=887451)
I tell him I really think I’d like the dial but I need to see it in person. Many DD2 dials look wonky/oversized to me vs DD40 dials so I wanted to see the sticks. He asked if it’d be okay for him to show me that dial (only) if that would help. I said, I guess that would yes. He said he could get it back in 20min. He could swap out dials, no problem. This was not going to work for me, but I asked to see the dial anyway. I said I’m gonna get some food w/ my wife.

We go to a nice looking steakhouse on 3rd ave. Sparks I think it was called. We had to drive back so nothing crazy. Good steak, not amazing. We were hungry. We discussed how unpleasant this has been.
He sends me a picture of the dial. Ok, he did something we’ll see. I keep eating. Then he sends me a picture of the watch. He apparently was able to unpack it out of his shipment to whatever watch trade show he was headed to.

Not that excited, we eat leisurely and head on over. Steak is steak.
He shows me the watch and I like it. My wife…seems like she wants me to be happy and was relieved that I could change the dial whenever at a reasonable (compared to a $68k watch) price. The proportions of the DD40 in my opinion (and it’s the popular opinion) they work a little better. However, in this case I knew I could get the DD40 I wanted anywhere (I saw like 6 in store windows just walking by) but the DD2 a little less so. Also, they prob will never make one that big again. The dial was one I really liked (sorta like the DD40 with baguette dial with sticks instead of baguettes). Oh, I think the fluted bezel on pt DD is a huge mistake. I personally don’t like the flash and esp with the Pt model, the smooth bezel was its calling card.
I’ll quote my post from another thread:

Then I negotiated hard. Brought up Chrono 24 listings. Okay okay, that's china, those two are private. Then I brought up Moda and read him the offer price on the last four listings (in past month). He didn't like this and yea, maybe in theory they are wholesale not retail prices but it is what I could get them for with a comparable amount of sketch I was dealing with at his store. The nice places on 47th street I suppose could be considered "retail establishments" but the smaller places aren't providing a pleasant retail shopping experience. I digress.

Negotiated hard. Was genuinely willing to walk away. Got a better price than expected going in. Shook hands. Didn't charge for shipping, which he initially said was like $150. Small deposit on debit card. Wired funds next morning. Received watch the following morning. Correct/same watch, card, all agreed upon links. Sent me the L box instead of XL box as promised. Included (incorrect) manual, booklet, etc. which wasn't explicitly discussed. Between not charging for shipping, prompt delivery and including some goodies maybe he didn't need to and explicitly shafting me on the box, maybe it's even. Not sure.

Updates to this: My wife apparently negotiated the booklets too. Watch is working, keeping great time and I’m loving it. Love the watch. Don’t really care about the other stuff too much, in the end I just wanted the freakin thing for around retail and I don’t care if I lose money from there.

General commentary from me about the overall experience form another thread:

I think a somewhat better analogy for the entire experience is like Peter Luger vs a traditional high end steakhouse. The wait staff there approximates the cordiality of a Jewish deli. They may be rude, maybe treat you a bit like dirt, but the food may be well worth it. The traditionally steak house will have impeccable service, make you feel like a million bucks, but the steak might just not be at the same level. For steakhouses, I prefer the latter. For a $60k watch, to save a few k I'm happy with the former. In fairness, the traditional steakhouse would be an AD in this analogy and that experience isn't even available these days for many watches.

So that was that. The Diamond District I don’t think is a warm cozy place for retail buyers like me, but there is a time and place where it can make a lot of sense.

Here, I was looking for a fairly uncommon model. I’m not worried about fakes due to the weight being hard to copy (and for all the bad reviews I hear about Diamon District dealers, nobody really doubts the authenticity for modern models). More or less any issue is a full service away from being resolved.

You too may be a happy satisfied customer if you know what you’re getting into.

[rootbeer7]

I’ve got indigestion

[Trailboss516]

Thanks for the write up. Was interesting to read.

I'm sure this is exactly the reason people don't go to the diamond district to buy watches as this story likely does great work to reinforce that notion.

That said, I've both bought and sold there.

[jgrae]

I noticed all three listings for the watch are still online. I know Jazztime probably doesn't actually have the watch. Motion in Time says call for availability, so I guess that's fine. Sea Wave (where I bought it) still has the listing up at a crazy price on Chrono24 with a picture of a different card than the one that came with mine. I wonder if they were able to source it and get it for me to look at in the time it took me to have lunch. The year in the listing matched the year on my card so that would be quite a coincidence, but I guess it's possible.

[Crown & Shield]

Sorry, but you lost me at "My diamond dealer..."

[321Forever]

I've only dealt with Stephen Goldstein on 47th, and he doesn't do watches. He's a personal friend of our family wholesale estate jeweler in LA, Peter McNeal. We used him for resetting stones and helping with servicing an old Santa Fe Special.

To tell you how nice these guys are, Stephen arranged for us to ship our jewelry and valuable through his own armored car account, as it was basically impossible to do this being outside the industry. This was when we had moved from the east coast to the west and couldn't easily hand carry it all. We had maybe spent $500 at his counter over the years. He was just being nice.

My point is that it's always different when you have a direct connection or a referral. I can't imagine going through what you went through without that.

A Singapore Story- around 2000 at SLS (Sim Lim Square), my wife's cousin bought a portable CD player from a shop there at a great discount. He was offered to buy an accessory that went with the player, a battery pack that could hold 4 more AA batteries and snapped onto the side. He decided to pay the additional amount for the battery pack. When he got home he realized that the battery pack was actually an included accessory that came with the CD player. He got duped. He went back to the store, but the manager played stupid and the sales guy had not written down the additional accessory on the receipt. Thus, a Chinese local boy was ripped off by a Chinese local store.

Aggressive sales tactics cross race, religion, nationality, color, gender, etc.

PS. Don't ask me about the coconut vendors of Saigon.

[jgrae]

Originally Posted by Crown & Shield

Sorry, but you lost me at "My diamond dealer..."

ugh, i mean diamond district, obv. wonder if i can edit

edit: nope

[jgrae]

Forgot a pic:

[Trailboss516]

Congratulations on your watch!

[Swearengen]

Was it this guy?

[jgrae]

Originally Posted by Swearengen

Was it this guy?

Heh, who is that?