New eBay rule - chilling for flippers using eBay

[77T]

Over the years I did sell about a dozen Rolex and Omega watches on eBay. I was careful and never had a scammer succeed so the only reason I quit was the compounded costs of Final Value fees and PayPal. Buying and Selling here made much more sense with trusted TRF members.

Now I just got a notification that eBay will charge you or me if we withdraw an item as "no longer available" if we sell a listing outside of eBay. Chilling big brother move that will cause any flippers who try many channels to move an item.

From the notice I got:
"Our updated User Agreement will take effect on September 19, 2017 for new users and on November 1, 2017 for all other users. The updated User Agreement was posted on eBay.com on September 19, 2017.

The key update to the eBay User Agreement is that we’ve made it clearer how we address violations of our policy on offers to buy or sell outside eBay. Sellers who violate this policy may be charged a final value fee for the applicable item, even if it doesn’t sell."





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[MonBK]

Yes, I got it as well.

[tyler1980]

i don't see a problem. If i buy something on eBay i want to know the item is actually for sale on eBay and the seller isn't going to cancel the listing and sell to someone else.

After the auction or listing has run its course and doesn't sell, then fine, I think the seller should be able to try to sell it elsewhere.

Ebay's policies are generally buyer friendly and that is why so many buyers shop there with confidence. It all depends which side you look at it from.

[Abdullah71601]

How do they know you withdrew the item due to an offsite sale?

[ejvette]

I stooped selling high ticket items on ebay when they raised the fee to 10% and with paypal fees its over 13% in fees.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

How do they know you withdrew the item due to an offsite sale?

They investigate (randomly I think) cases where an item is withdrawn. They send an email to the seller asking for the cause. And they check all PMs sent via eBay messages.

The auction process is not the area I used - I always listed Buy It Now with Make Offer as an option.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by 77T

They investigate (randomly I think) cases where an item is withdrawn. They send an email to the seller asking for the cause. And they check all PMs sent via eBay messages.

The auction process is not the area I used - I always listed Buy It Now with Make Offer as an option.


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i don't sell there so i don't know, but are those listings with a time limit like an auction? For example can you list a buy it now item for 7 days and then if it doesn't sell then you sell elsewhere? In that case you wouldn't have to cancel the listing, just wait until it expires.

[Chewbacca]

Buy on eBay. Sell anywhere else.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i don't sell there so i don't know, but are those listings with a time limit like an auction? For example can you list a buy it now item for 7 days and then if it doesn't sell then you sell elsewhere? In that case you wouldn't have to cancel the listing, just wait until it expires.

That's how it should be done.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i don't see a problem. If i buy something on eBay i want to know the item is actually for sale on eBay and the seller isn't going to cancel the listing and sell to someone else.

After the auction or listing has run its course and doesn't sell, then fine, I think the seller should be able to try to sell it elsewhere.

Ebay's policies are generally buyer friendly and that is why so many buyers shop there with confidence. It all depends which side you look at it from.

I agree!

[Watchflair]

I'm still a fan. Pay $15 a month for a basic eBay store which makes my max final value fee on a watch $250. The trick here would be doing shorter auction times so the auction times out. They can't charge you if the auction ends with no sale.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Watchflair

I'm still a fan. Pay $15 a month for a basic eBay store which makes my max final value fee on a watch $250. The trick here would be doing shorter auction times so the auction times out. They can't charge you if the auction ends with no sale.

agreed. Cross selling the same watch on multiple sites at the same time is poor form IMO. As a buyer it would raise all kinds of red flags with me if i saw the same watch being sold on multiple websites simultaneously, especially if all the user names didn't match up. I would pass right over it. That could actually hurt sales.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

agreed. Cross selling the same watch on multiple sites at the same time is poor form IMO. As a buyer it would raise all kinds of red flags with me if i saw the same watch being sold on multiple websites simultaneously, especially if all the user names didn't match up. I would pass right over it. That could actually hurt sales.

But jewelers also use eBay to list pre-owned watches, while also selling it in there brick and mortar store (Timeless Luxury, for example). That seems reasonable. Would they now be potentially hit with this fee if the watch listing is pulled, or can they work around it?

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

But jewelers also use eBay to list pre-owned watches, while also selling it in there brick and mortar store (Timeless Luxury, for example). That seems reasonable. Would they now be potentially hit with this fee if the watch listing is pulled, or can they work around it?

What is there to work around?

You list a watch for sale at an auction and if you sell it somewhere else before auction ends you pay the fees, simple as that.

[Chiboy]

I would list with a BIN price (and perhaps Best Offer) for a relatively brief period of time. Let the auction time out, as others have said. Also, if you sell it elsewhere, can you edit your listing while it is active to raise the price to a level where you are sure you won't attract a bid? The would insure that it times out without selling the watch on eBay and wherever else you actually sold it.

[handsfull]

Ive been with ebay since the late 90's, back when you could send USPS money orders and cashiers checks for payments. Loved it. Have a large amount of feedback (100% positive BTW)

Fast forward to now...Ebay has certianly lost its luster. Amazon is in many cases better priced. Selling fees are way out of hand. Their customer service has gone down the tubes. It feels like every month they change their TOS to add another rule to charge you for something.

For me, the nextdoor app, craigslist, facebook marketplace and private forums have taken over for ebay. I get to sell things with no fee whatsoever and in MANY cases...its FAR easier (and NO shipping costs!)

[Laszlo]

EBay is a ripoff for sellers and worse than the mafia. What I do love though, outside of high-ticket items, is that sites like Next Door are seriously eating into their bread and butter. Not to mention other platforms who resell used luxury items that are authenticated that are stealing a ton of market share.

[MILGAUSS88]

Originally Posted by ejvette

I stooped selling high ticket items on ebay when they raised the fee to 10% and with paypal fees its over 13% in fees.

Read the fine print, it is another 5% if you sell overseas. Even to Canada.
I believe it was 2% to eBay and a 3% conversion fee from PayPal, they really hide that one.

[77T]

Originally Posted by MonBK

What is there to work around?



You list a watch for sale at an auction and if you sell it somewhere else before auction ends you pay the fees, simple as that.

True enough. Brick & mortar store just needs to factor that into their store pricing.


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[superdog]

smart.

I used to sell on eBay. I had tons of people ask me for a discount if we could take the sale offline.

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

They investigate (randomly I think) cases where an item is withdrawn. They send an email to the seller asking for the cause. And they check all PMs sent via eBay messages.

The auction process is not the area I used - I always listed Buy It Now with Make Offer as an option.


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Can't the seller just lie about it?

Originally Posted by tyler1980

agreed. Cross selling the same watch on multiple sites at the same time is poor form IMO. As a buyer it would raise all kinds of red flags with me if i saw the same watch being sold on multiple websites simultaneously, especially if all the user names didn't match up. I would pass right over it. That could actually hurt sales.

Trusted sellers here sell across a number of sites as well as their websites. Should they be barred from doing so?

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Trusted sellers here sell across a number of sites as well as their websites. Should they be barred from doing so?

I wouldn't buy from them no. Same reason i would never use chrono24 as they never actually seem to have the stock they are selling either. If you went to buy it they might have actually sold it somewhere else already and never updated the listing.

They can do what they want, but unless they have real time inventory tracking to accurately reflect stock across all websites then i don't personally like it.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Can't the seller just lie about it?







Trusted sellers here sell across a number of sites as well as their websites. Should they be barred from doing so?

Yes a seller could lie about the first time eBay catches it. But the pattern of behavior for power sellers would belie the lie over time.

I think trusted sellers shouldn't be denied marketplace access to multiple platforms. I always had pieces for sale in both places. On TRF was my best price and on eBay I factored in the cost of sales.

But if we look at bigger picture, this is more about eBay v. Amazon methinks. There's more volume cross-listing there.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by 77T

Yes a seller could lie about the first time eBay catches it. But the pattern of behavior for power sellers would belie the lie over time.

I think trusted sellers shouldn't be denied marketplace access to multiple platforms. I always had pieces for sale in both places. On TRF was my best price and on eBay I factored in the cost of sales.

But if we look at bigger picture, this is more about eBay v. Amazon methinks. There's more volume cross-listing there.


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Agree. Sellers should be free to move their merchandise on as many sites as they feel appropriate. As long as a sale is closed on all the platforms it shouldn't be a concern.

I'm a eBay buyer, never sold anything there. I've noticed it's a different place than it used to be.

[AK797]

I take it this removes the cash on collection option. They already stop your PMs if they mention a paypal address.

[77T]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i don't sell there so i don't know, but are those listings with a time limit like an auction? For example can you list a buy it now item for 7 days and then if it doesn't sell then you sell elsewhere? In that case you wouldn't have to cancel the listing, just wait until it expires.

Yes that's how I did it - 10 days at a time. I never "pulled" a listing as being unavailable. I also never answered a PM from an eBayer who asked my price if they bought directly (i.e. Outside of eBay). Rules are rules so I followed them.

My reason for starting the thread was that eBay was going to unilaterally charge sellers a final value fee for an item they suspected was sold outside eBay.

I used eBay for the first few years I got into watches. It was before I even knew about TRF. eBay was what we used to buy/sell race cars, haulers, trailers and race junk. I can tell you that many teams routinely broke those rules. Stuff was listed on race forums at true value. And it was also listed on eBay at chump value (inflated prices).

I never did that. And it paid off for me on one deal - I bought a Touring Car and was headed to Wisconsin hauling my trailer for pickup. My cell rang and the seller said "no deal" - that my PayPal payment disappeared. He also had a buyer coming from Midwest with cash. First come, first sold.

Here's where I get the value of the policy. I called eBay and did a 3-way call with PP (at the time eBay still owned PP). I traced the transaction and the payment. PP confirmed it had been deposited in the seller's PP acct. But that it had been transferred within hours into a bank account.

I called the seller - he admitted he didn't even have the PP password. His ex-wife had taken the funds and he was desperate.

By now I'm near Indy on the trip and PP really came through. I did a 3-way call with PP and the seller. He made the case that the funds had been stolen - PP reversed the ACH to that bank and brought the funds back into his PP acct.

I got to his shop and he was so happy that I got thousands in spares as compensation for negotiating this recovery.

So I've been on the opposite side of deals going bad - I get the reasons for the rule. I just don't like it being unilateral.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by AK797

I take it this removes the cash on collection option. They already stop your PMs if they mention a paypal address.

You can still do cash on pick-up and select "local pick-up only". PP is now just one of many payment options sellers can offer.

I'm not sure about blocking the PMs since I no longer sell there.


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[Sperry]

As a seller, I can no longer see the buyers email address via eBay or paypal. So my only contact is to send an eBay PM.

If I want to establish contact later via phone, by figuring out the identity of the buyer/seller, that is my business. I'm free to contact them outside eBay and say, "Hey Floyd, those awesome chrome mags you got for sale on eBay? How about if I buy them off you as a private transaction?".

But if I use the eBay PM system, make my intentions clear, we exchange info, and Floyd ends the auction, eBay can cry "Foul". Guess they'd have to prove their Sales Agreement has been violated.

[BNA/LION]

I always thought we need to have a BIDDING section for the FOR SALE on TRF.

A separate section where TRUSTED SELLERS and TRF Members who are prequalified to Sell/Bid on Time pieces or parts can do so.

Just putting this out there... Might need a program written or have a specific S.O.P. that clearly spells out the way it works and both patties responsibilities.

Thoughts Anyone?

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by MonBK

What is there to work around?



You list a watch for sale at an auction and if you sell it somewhere else before auction ends you pay the fees, simple as that.

Sorry, I missed where it says this only applies to auction pieces.