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Old 13 April 2018, 06:06 AM   #91
nikesupremedunk
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I think the fact that itís hard to find largely contributes to the belief that itís the ďtopĒ Rolex sports model. If Daytonaís were like black subs and black subs were hard to get, Iím sure the tables will be turned.

Personally, I do want one in the future because Iíve never had one but if I donít it wonít be the end of the world. Iím very happy with my sub, gmt, and dj.
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Old 13 April 2018, 06:55 AM   #92
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The Daytona is the pinnacle of artificial scarcity in the Rolex collection. That is all.

Take that away and I bet the aura and "hey everybody look at me because I'm the king" feeling goes away.

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Old 13 April 2018, 07:06 AM   #93
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Any hierarchy is an illusionary construct. The only "crown" is the Rolex trademark, and all Rolex wear them. The Daytona is the pinnacle of nothing, it's just another Rolex.

Frankly, I find the desire of many to try and determine, establish, or lobby for what is the "best" model (which suggests there is some sort of objective hierarchy) pretty strange. Why, and why would anyone care?
There is all kinds of empirical data to show the Daytona is the most desirable Rolex. What percentage of people on this forum if told they could only keep one Rolex would choose a Daytona? Very high I would guess. Should it be that way is up for discussion. Why would someone care? I think it goes part and parcel with luxury items. It'a like the owners who say owing a GT3 is the same as owning an RS. That statement it's just another Rolex is silly...
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Old 13 April 2018, 07:45 AM   #94
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i suspect a lot of that has to be how hard it is to get. I get the same thing with my 5711 and its not the best patek by a long shot. Not a knock on the watch though. For me the OF WG daytona is the pinnacle of the line, but they make enough variations for all tastes
Fully agree on your point about scarcity. It is an awesome watch, the 4130 caliber is solid, vertical clutch, relatively fewer parts makes it theoretically less prone to maintenace issues. Oh, and it looks awesome. But as an owner of the 520, I wouldn't put it at the same level as the chronographs from other brands like Vacheron, Patek and ALS. They're easier to source perhaps (ironic to see a perpetual calendar chronograph in a Patek window but wait 5 years for a Daytona!) and that's the reason why some of the people working at the other brands woyld have been shocked seeing it in the wild.

And yes, the issue of value is a part of the attraction for many where Rolex and Patek are typically the heavy hitters in residual with the Daytona being among the best in this aspect within the Rolex lineup.
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Old 13 April 2018, 08:24 AM   #95
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Hulk first.


Then the GMTs.
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Old 13 April 2018, 10:54 AM   #96
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This is your opinion but I beg to differ. Do you consider the Submariner or GMT more important? The fact is the Paul Newman Daytona sold for $17.8m with the buyer’s premium. Even though the Speedy went to the moon and the El Primero is a superb watch, they just don’t have the Rolex aura and never will. People can say it’s the marketing, the crown, the celebrities, a combination or just pure luck but this is just the reality. None of them look as good a 6239 or 6241 exotic dial either.
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There is all kinds of empirical data to show the Daytona is the most desirable Rolex. What percentage of people on this forum if told they could only keep one Rolex would choose a Daytona? Very high I would guess. Should it be that way is up for discussion. Why would someone care? I think it goes part and parcel with luxury items. It'a like the owners who say owing a GT3 is the same as owning an RS. That statement it's just another Rolex is silly...
Apparently, some don't understand what the Professional Line models (and therefore, this thread) are all about; Pro models are all designed to be different from one another and do different things having different forte's past merely telling time. "tool watches", if you will, using the notion that there's a right tool for the job. A Daytona (chrono) is not a GMT (display time zones) is not a Sub (dive watch) is not a Milgauss (anti-mag) etc etc.

Believing there's a hierarchy (and therefore, that a "pinnacle" exists) between watches purposely designed to have different functions is comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapes and trying to force-feed/lobby the notion that one job, function, or forte' is the best. Well, a Daytona is hardly the "pinnacle" of Pro Models if one wants to dive super deep underwater with it, display another time zone, or even read the date. Hell, with sub-par contrast between hands and dial/subdials of the SS models and half the PM models are barely even legible to tell the time or elapsed time, and not legible at all when that flat, sapphire crystal reflects light.

It seems that the 2 of you (and some others) are trying to equate fashion statement/scarcity-induced "desirability" that has nothing to do with the actual functioning to being a "pinnacle" in a mix of purpose-built tool watches doing different things. One thing all models do is display the time, and yet the Daytona is the only one of them where complaints (not only mine) of readability arise. Pick any Pro Series model and you won't find anyone having trouble reading the dial in real, day-to-day life, but there's plenty re the Daytona even in TRF Daytona threads. I have perfect vision and read instruments quickly to absorb and act on what they're telling me for a living, and the Daytona's sub-standard interface with the wearer/user to do it's most basic job as a watch (to tell time) is not made up for by the jewelry factor or "Oh wow, you have a Daytona!" unless you're the type that factors in a Fashion Statement angle to the equation. I couldn't care less about a tool watch being a fashion statement, but if you do then it doesn't even really need to tell time and one never even has to unscrew the pushers and operate the chrono, like most Daytona owners don't. Then, it's just an overpriced, "look at me" bauble that makes one feel good based on others not having, and imagines it being noticed by others is a compliment to oneself. On this forum there's only 1 guy I can think of who actually uses his Daytona for it's actual purpose during racing. There'a few others who may use the chrono time time something here and there, but the reality for most is those pushers stay screwed firmly in.

The avocado crop was scarce due to weather a few years ago in Oz, and in NZ they were selling for $5, $6, $7 a pop. One couldn't get guacamole in Mexican restaurants. People who loved avocados and those who believe (and market) the idea that avocados are a "Superfood" wailed and gnashed their teeth. They had to find other things to put on their toast in the morning and snacks the rest of the day.

By your reasoning, each selling for $7 due to scarcity = "empirical data" plus the loud clamoring about no availability in the produce section of supermarkets by newbie avocado fanatics buying into Superfood hype on a Food & Fitness Forum = "Avocados are the pinnacle of all fruits".
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Old 13 April 2018, 11:34 AM   #97
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Apparently, some don't understand what the Professional Line models (and therefore, this thread) are all about; Pro models are all designed to be different from one another and do different things having different forte's past merely telling time. "tool watches", if you will, using the notion that there's a right tool for the job. A Daytona (chrono) is not a GMT (display time zones) is not a Sub (dive watch) is not a Milgauss (anti-mag) etc etc.

Believing there's a hierarchy (and therefore, that a "pinnacle" exists) between watches purposely designed to have different functions is comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapes and trying to force-feed/lobby the notion that one job, function, or forte' is the best. Well, a Daytona is hardly the "pinnacle" of Pro Models if one wants to dive super deep underwater with it, display another time zone, or even read the date. Hell, with sub-par contrast between hands and dial/subdials of the SS models and half the PM models are barely even legible to tell the time or elapsed time, and not legible at all when that flat, sapphire crystal reflects light.

It seems that the 2 of you (and some others) are trying to equate fashion statement/scarcity-induced "desirability" that has nothing to do with the actual functioning to being a "pinnacle" in a mix of purpose-built tool watches doing different things. One thing all models do is display the time, and yet the Daytona is the only one of them where complaints (not only mine) of readability arise. Pick any Pro Series model and you won't find anyone having trouble reading the dial in real, day-to-day life, but there's plenty re the Daytona even in TRF Daytona threads. Sub-standard interface with the wearer to do it's most basic job as a watch (to tell time) is not made up for by the jewelry factor or "Oh wow, you have a Daytona!" unless you're the type that factors in a Fashion Statement angle to the equation. If that's the case then it doesn't even really need to tell time and one never even has to unscrew the pushers and operate the chrono, like most Daytona owners don't. Then, it's just an overpriced, "look at me" bauble that makes one feel good based on others not having, and imagines it being noticed by others is a compliment of oneself. On this forum there's only 1 guy I can think of who actually uses his Daytona for it's actual purpose during racing. There'a few others who may use the chrono time time something here and there, but the reality for most is those pushers stay screwed firmly in.

The avocado crop was scarce due to weather a few years ago in Oz, and in NZ they were selling for $5, $6, $7 a pop. One couldn't get guacamole in Mexican restaurants. People who loved avocados and those who believe (and market) the idea that avocados are a "Superfood" wailed and gnashed their teeth. They had to find other things to put on their toast in the morning and snacks the rest of the day.

By your reasoning, each selling for $7 due to scarcity = "empirical data" plus the loud clamoring about scarcity in produce markets by newbie avocado fanatics buying into Superfood hype on a Health Food Fitness Forum = "Avocados are the pinnacle of all fruits".
do you think any other model rolex will fetch more at auction than PNís daytona?
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Old 13 April 2018, 12:37 PM   #98
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do you think any other model rolex will fetch more at auction than PNís daytona?
Highest price does not mean highest quality, especially in the world of luxury watches.

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Old 13 April 2018, 12:38 PM   #99
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do you think any other model rolex will fetch more at auction than PN’s daytona?
No.

Do you think any set of artifacts will fetch more people who have over the decades and will collectively pay more money to see than King Tut's?

I'm just asking because I'm joining an Archeology forum and want to start a thread to figure out what the "pinnacle of artifacts" is in order to help out those that get suckered down at the souk into overpaying for a modern, "close-enough" rendition of his one-of-a-kind death mask to imagine they have purchased "the best" souvenir measured objectively against all other souvenirs.
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Old 13 April 2018, 12:52 PM   #100
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This is your opinion but I beg to differ. Do you consider the Submariner or GMT more important? The fact is the Paul Newman Daytona sold for $17.8m with the buyer’s premium. Even though the Speedy went to the moon and the El Primero is a superb watch, they just don’t have the Rolex aura and never will. People can say it’s the marketing, the crown, the celebrities, a combination or just pure luck but this is just the reality. None of them look as good a 6239 or 6241 exotic dial either.
The Speedmaster is a much much more important watch than the Daytona. If Aldrin's Speedmaster was ever found, the hammer price would blow PNPN out of the water. Youre fooling yourself if you think differently.
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Old 13 April 2018, 01:35 PM   #101
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The Speedmaster is a much much more important watch than the Daytona. If Aldrin's Speedmaster was ever found, the hammer price would blow PNPN out of the water. Youre fooling yourself if you think differently.
But what about the Rolex aura? How can a chrono that merely transcended it's race car roots and set itself apart from the rest of the chrono crowd by becoming and remaining NASA's EVA/First watch on the moon, staying so unchanged and popular since the 1960's till the present day that if Gus Grissom himself came back to life he'd instantly recognize it for what it is have anything as weighty behind it as the "Rolex aura".

Irrefutable proof: Ellen is on TV and wears a Daytona not a Speedy Pro. PN and JW were in movies. In terms of human achievement, how can the mere pushing the boundaries of science and humans stepping off Earth to conduct space exploration compare to the dizzying heights of media fantasy? I mean, in 1969 only 520 million around the world tuned in to watch the first moon landing live on TV.

No, not even the light of a night-launched Saturn V is as blinding as the incomparable Rolex aura. It just IS.
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Old 13 April 2018, 02:18 PM   #102
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Is the Daytona really the pinnacle of Rolex SS professional sports models?

I got tiered of the run around and found I like the JLC DSC, a hell of a lot more. I was wearing it when I picked up my SD43 from my AD who likes to wear a 116500. He asked to try mine on; I obliged, and we compared features of the two. He gave a nod of affirmation, and said, ''you know you have the better watch.'' I have to admit it made me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I bought mine for far less then the Daytona goes for. Also after wearing his I found that I definitely prefer the legibility of the JLC,
And the 42mm case.

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Old 13 April 2018, 03:34 PM   #103
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Not sure if it could be called pinnacle, however a SS Daytona is perhaps the most sought after of modern Rolexes. About 10 years ago when I decided to streamlined my collection of 20 watches, the 2 that I kept was a 16520 and a 16610. That said, if I must keep only 1, I would chose the Sub over the Daytona.
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Old 13 April 2018, 05:02 PM   #104
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Hmmm
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Old 13 April 2018, 05:46 PM   #105
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This. Seems like there are many threads trying to establish one watch, usually the OPs, as the preeminent, hardest to find, most practical and otherwise most lust worthy Rolex while denigrating other popular models. Some strange effort to validate ones choices it seems. FWIW, love my DaytonaC, but it isnít magical.
Love my ceramic Daytona, but also love my 16750 Pepsi just as much. Hope never to decide between the two.
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Old 13 April 2018, 11:09 PM   #106
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Would Daytona be as appreciated without the Paul Newman hype? What happens when people don't even know who that is? Is it even a factor now? I'm European under 40yrs and I have no connection to Daytona for the sake of Paul Newman.

For me Daytona just seems like a cool chronograph and I associate it to F1 and racing. Before I could afford Rolex I had Tag Heuer but now lusting after Daytona.


This is on point. Itís made in smaller numbers enforcing scarcity and has a historical connection to racing

I agree with an earlier post. Reverse manufacturing numbers between this and the Sub and itís not even close

Still a great watch!


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Old 14 April 2018, 12:00 AM   #107
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I bought a Daytona w/ out knowing that it's associated w/ Paul Newman.

The question about it being the pinnacle will be hard to gauge on this forum as there are is an interesting level of disdain it. It's one the most polarizing watches discussed on this forum. It's a Rolex classic and, yet, so many seem to hate it. Not sure why, but doesn't stop me from digging it.
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Old 14 April 2018, 02:32 AM   #108
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:25 AM   #109
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Scarcity isn't a guide. My SD 116600 will be a relatively rare (I know it's not 'rare' so focus on the word 'relatively') watch in years to come, but that's simply because it was unpopular and so had a short production run.

Likewise, there will be more 116500's than 116519's - but that's simply because people probably don't see the justification in spending an addition £12k.

I think the Sky Dweller is a dog of a watch to look at, it holds zero appeal, but I believe most on here love it.

It's funny that you say that because I think that the 116600 is Rolex's best sports watch of the ceramic era but the audience didn't like it, as you say.

The Daytona is a victim of the hype machine. It's somewhat attractive now, with the ceramic bezel improving visibility, but the pre-ceramic in-house model was unreadable and odd-looking, yet still had a massive fan following and waitlist.
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:30 AM   #110
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I bought a Daytona w/ out knowing that it's associated w/ Paul Newman.

The question about it being the pinnacle will be hard to gauge on this forum as there are is an interesting level of disdain it. It's one the most polarizing watches discussed on this forum. It's a Rolex classic and, yet, so many seem to hate it. Not sure why, but doesn't stop me from digging it.
Disdain is a great method of disguising desire. Overcome the initial resistance and it's an easy sale!!! (From the old days selling encyclopedias door to door.)
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:31 AM   #111
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I like the SS skydweller more than the daytona. More complications, and more useful.
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:45 AM   #112
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No.

Do you think any set of artifacts will fetch more people who have over the decades and will collectively pay more money to see than King Tut's?

I'm just asking because I'm joining an Archeology forum and want to start a thread to figure out what the "pinnacle of artifacts" is in order to help out those that get suckered down at the souk into overpaying for a modern, "close-enough" rendition of his one-of-a-kind death mask to imagine they have purchased "the best" souvenir measured objectively against all other souvenirs.
Can you re-phrase this? Sounds interesting I'm just not sure I got it.
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:46 AM   #113
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Highest price does not mean highest quality, especially in the world of luxury watches.

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What do you define as "pinnacle"?
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Old 14 April 2018, 10:10 AM   #114
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Is the Daytona really the pinnacle of Rolex SS professional sports models?

I donít know if it is the pinnacle but is a damn great watch. It wears well, its light , itís sturdy, performs flawlessly and it looks really good on the wrist.




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Old 14 April 2018, 10:37 AM   #115
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Apparently, some don't understand what the Professional Line models (and therefore, this thread) are all about; Pro models are all designed to be different from one another and do different things having different forte's past merely telling time. "tool watches", if you will, using the notion that there's a right tool for the job. A Daytona (chrono) is not a GMT (display time zones) is not a Sub (dive watch) is not a Milgauss (anti-mag) etc etc.

Believing there's a hierarchy (and therefore, that a "pinnacle" exists) between watches purposely designed to have different functions is comparing apples to oranges to pears to grapes and trying to force-feed/lobby the notion that one job, function, or forte' is the best. Well, a Daytona is hardly the "pinnacle" of Pro Models if one wants to dive super deep underwater with it, display another time zone, or even read the date. Hell, with sub-par contrast between hands and dial/subdials of the SS models and half the PM models are barely even legible to tell the time or elapsed time, and not legible at all when that flat, sapphire crystal reflects light.

It seems that the 2 of you (and some others) are trying to equate fashion statement/scarcity-induced "desirability" that has nothing to do with the actual functioning to being a "pinnacle" in a mix of purpose-built tool watches doing different things. One thing all models do is display the time, and yet the Daytona is the only one of them where complaints (not only mine) of readability arise. Pick any Pro Series model and you won't find anyone having trouble reading the dial in real, day-to-day life, but there's plenty re the Daytona even in TRF Daytona threads. I have perfect vision and read instruments quickly to absorb and act on what they're telling me for a living, and the Daytona's sub-standard interface with the wearer/user to do it's most basic job as a watch (to tell time) is not made up for by the jewelry factor or "Oh wow, you have a Daytona!" unless you're the type that factors in a Fashion Statement angle to the equation. I couldn't care less about a tool watch being a fashion statement, but if you do then it doesn't even really need to tell time and one never even has to unscrew the pushers and operate the chrono, like most Daytona owners don't. Then, it's just an overpriced, "look at me" bauble that makes one feel good based on others not having, and imagines it being noticed by others is a compliment to oneself. On this forum there's only 1 guy I can think of who actually uses his Daytona for it's actual purpose during racing. There'a few others who may use the chrono time time something here and there, but the reality for most is those pushers stay screwed firmly in.

The avocado crop was scarce due to weather a few years ago in Oz, and in NZ they were selling for $5, $6, $7 a pop. One couldn't get guacamole in Mexican restaurants. People who loved avocados and those who believe (and market) the idea that avocados are a "Superfood" wailed and gnashed their teeth. They had to find other things to put on their toast in the morning and snacks the rest of the day.

By your reasoning, each selling for $7 due to scarcity = "empirical data" plus the loud clamoring about no availability in the produce section of supermarkets by newbie avocado fanatics buying into Superfood hype on a Food & Fitness Forum = "Avocados are the pinnacle of all fruits".
Huh? That didn't so too elitist...

I don't think anybody is confused in how to match a Professional model to it's proper usage. And I can tell you are making assumptions already on the Daytona being the "poseur" model du jour. When I bought my first Rolex in 1982 the "poseur" model was the Submariner. There will always be that element with Rolex.

I have had every Professional model (some twice) sans the Sea Dweller. And a few Air-Kings to boot. At the end of the day all I now care about is my early 70's all original 5513 Metres First and my Daytona C.

The Daytona is the most important watch Rolex makes. They build their business model around the watch and the availability/production model simply shows it. And yes, it doesn't mean it's the best
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Old 14 April 2018, 05:56 PM   #116
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The Daytona is the most important watch Rolex makes. They build their business model around the watch and the availability/production model simply shows it. And yes, it doesn't mean it's the best
The DateJust is the most important watch Rolex makes and has been since the they were introduced. Their entire business as we know it...the one that produces 800,000 men's and women's watches per year, is built on the bread and butter, best-seller DateJust foundation. The reason there are so many DJs and OPs available is because that's what they sell the most of and dedicate the most display case space to. No Djs, OPs, or DDs and you may as well write off 98% of women who've ever wanted, bought, or will buy a Rolex and who, despite not proportionally well-represented on Sports watch-centric Rolex internet forums, represent a large portion of Rolex buyers/recipients.

There is absolutely nothing that shows Rolex has built it's business model around the Daytona, then or now.

With no DJs and OPs (and DDs) but instead producing just Daytonas, Subs, GMTs, etc, Rolex would be a niche watchmaker catering only to the minority of men who buy Pro Series models and virtually no women, who almost never do. When the world-at-large thinks "Rolex", they picture a DJ or DD. The Daytona is a distant also-ran as far as recognizability and gross sales.
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Old 14 April 2018, 06:15 PM   #117
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An old article. First time I had read it was this morning. Sums up how I feel about the ceramic Daytona.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/be...he-new-daytona
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Old 14 April 2018, 06:18 PM   #118
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I personally dislike all chronograph watches. Cannot stand sud dials in any way, shape or form.
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Old 14 April 2018, 06:20 PM   #119
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Sea Dweller Deepsea: Rolex @ its absolutely Best
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Old 15 April 2018, 02:53 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
The DateJust is the most important watch Rolex makes and has been since the they were introduced. Their entire business as we know it...the one that produces 800,000 men's and women's watches per year, is built on the bread and butter, best-seller DateJust foundation. The reason there are so many DJs and OPs available is because that's what they sell the most of and dedicate the most display case space to. No Djs, OPs, or DDs and you may as well write off 98% of women who've ever wanted, bought, or will buy a Rolex and who, despite not proportionally well-represented on Sports watch-centric Rolex internet forums, represent a large portion of Rolex buyers/recipients.

There is absolutely nothing that shows Rolex has built it's business model around the Daytona, then or now.

With no DJs and OPs (and DDs) but instead producing just Daytonas, Subs, GMTs, etc, Rolex would be a niche watchmaker catering only to the minority of men who buy Pro Series models and virtually no women, who almost never do. When the world-at-large thinks "Rolex", they picture a DJ or DD. The Daytona is a distant also-ran as far as recognizability and gross sales.
I don't doubt a single word in your post. Maybe business model was the wrong wording. That said, volume products and halo products are two very different things and serve very different purposes in companies. It's why all successful brands cover both of those bases. I just googled Rolex Daytona and got 455K results and Rolex Datejust and got 1.6M results. Well done. I wonder where the advertising dollars spent as it relates to each Rolex model ranks? Any idea?
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