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Old 29 March 2020, 03:56 AM   #4201
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A quick google search indicates that the lawsuits have already started. Both stockholder and tort. Plaintiff's lawyers are fishing for clients as we speak (excuse the pun).

Even if they get a bailout, many of these companies' tort exposure is staggering. There is literally blood in the water. My money is on my brethren with the black fins and I suspect that a good portion of the bailout money would wind up going to lawsuits with many bankruptcies in the mix.
Good. Iím not sure who I sympathise with less - the cruise companies or their passengers
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Old 29 March 2020, 03:57 AM   #4202
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my dad passed away today due to pneumonia caused by the virus. he was on a ventilator for 3 days and everything was looking a lot better then his heart just stopped. its really no joke, stay safe everyone.

58 years old and completely healthy, unbelievable
I am so sorry...you have been cheated out of 30 years of time with your dad by this virus. My thoughts and prayers are with your family.

Thank you for sharing this, as I am a 56 year old man in generally excellent health and I wil take heed and be even more careful.
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Old 29 March 2020, 03:57 AM   #4203
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my dad passed away today due to pneumonia caused by the virus. he was on a ventilator for 3 days and everything was looking a lot better then his heart just stopped. its really no joke, stay safe everyone.

58 years old and completely healthy, unbelievable
Very sorry to hear about this huncho, truly the worse news....sending my deepest condolences to you and your family as your navigate your way through these challenging times.
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Old 29 March 2020, 03:58 AM   #4204
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Nothing in the US Constitution against that.

By the way if I recall that was to prevent tariff violations.
Thatís not the way I read the article Brett, sounded more like back peddling to me.

We can agree to disagree on how this pandemic has been handled but IMHO, improvements need to made all around
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Old 29 March 2020, 03:59 AM   #4205
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Well you know as well as I do that unless they suspend constitutional rights you canít stop the first amendment that guarantees the right of assembly. As of right now our quarantine is voluntary and will have to stay that way until the courts decide otherwise.
I believe the feds have authority to quarantine by force. Any any person in any place in the US.

Stay safe.
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:01 AM   #4206
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Guys - letís not begin a political debate about the US constitution, federal law, State law, local authorities, etc.

Itís a slippery slope.


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Old 29 March 2020, 04:02 AM   #4207
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I believe the feds have authority to quarantine by force. Any any person in any place in the US.

Stay safe.
https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:05 AM   #4208
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Well you know as well as I do that unless they suspend constitutional rights you can’t stop the first amendment that guarantees the right of assembly. As of right now our quarantine is voluntary and will have to stay that way until the courts decide otherwise.
I beg to differ. From the CDC website:


State, local, and tribal authorities

Enforce isolation and quarantine within their borders.
It is possible for federal, state, local, and tribal health authorities to have and use all at the same time separate but coexisting legal quarantine power in certain events. In the event of a conflict, federal law is supreme.

Enforcement
If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance.

In the rare event that a federal order is issued by CDC, those individuals will be provided with an order for quarantine or isolation. An example of a Quarantine Order for Novel Coronavirus (print-only) pdf icon[PDF – 5 pages] is provided. This document outlines the rationale of the federal order as well as information on where the individual will be located, quarantine requirements including the length of the order, CDC’s legal authority, and information outlining what the individual can expect while under federal order.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:18 AM   #4209
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I believe the feds have authority to quarantine by force. Any any person in any place in the US.

Stay safe.
I think we will just have to disagree on that. Remarkably disagree.
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:21 AM   #4210
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Originally Posted by djgallo View Post
I beg to differ. From the CDC website:


State, local, and tribal authorities

Enforce isolation and quarantine within their borders.
It is possible for federal, state, local, and tribal health authorities to have and use all at the same time separate but coexisting legal quarantine power in certain events. In the event of a conflict, federal law is supreme.

Enforcement
If a quarantinable disease is suspected or identified, CDC may issue a federal isolation or quarantine order.

Public health authorities at the federal, state, local, and tribal levels may sometimes seek help from police or other law enforcement officers to enforce a public health order.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Coast Guard officers are authorized to help enforce federal quarantine orders.

Breaking a federal quarantine order is punishable by fines and imprisonment.

Federal law allows the conditional release of persons from quarantine if they comply with medical monitoring and surveillance.

In the rare event that a federal order is issued by CDC, those individuals will be provided with an order for quarantine or isolation. An example of a Quarantine Order for Novel Coronavirus (print-only) pdf icon[PDF Ė 5 pages] is provided. This document outlines the rationale of the federal order as well as information on where the individual will be located, quarantine requirements including the length of the order, CDCís legal authority, and information outlining what the individual can expect while under federal order.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/about...isolation.html
I doubt very seriously that would stand up in court. Iím not gonna argue with you on this. If you think itís perfectly reasonable for the federal government, for any reason they come up with to force you to stay in a certain area then weíll just have to disagree. Peace to you brother.

Itís scary to me how quickly people are willing to give up their constitutional rights.
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:24 AM   #4211
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Itís scary to me how quickly people are willing to give up their constitutional rights.
Constitutional rights don't do much for people that are dying or dead. Sometimes people just don't listen to reason or facts and things get enforced by harsher measures. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:26 AM   #4212
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Nothing in the US Constitution against that.

By the way if I recall that was to prevent tariff violations.
Yes, chinese steel has been getting through illegally.
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:31 AM   #4213
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Yes, chinese steel has been getting through illegally.
Yes, I thought thatís what it was. Thank you
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:35 AM   #4214
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Constitutional rights don't do much for people that are dying or dead. Sometimes people just don't listen to reason or facts and things get enforced by harsher measures. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves
I regret starting this topic on this page of this thread. This is the wrong thread and the wrong forum to discuss what our beliefs are on what government(s) can or can’t or should and shouldn’t be able to do you as a citizen.

I will not respond anymore to it.
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Old 29 March 2020, 04:36 AM   #4215
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Yes, I thought that’s what it was. Thank you
And I can tell you, the anti american bias and fake news north of the border now is awful. You have no idea. There would be no stopping it from up here where I now am. I can't wait to get back. You have no idea.
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Old 29 March 2020, 05:17 AM   #4216
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>>> Dr Fauci latest update on coronavirus <<<

Thought Iíd share this article and update ...
Donít know if anyone has seen this yet.

https://www.teaparty247.org/dr-fauci...s-a-must-read/
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Old 29 March 2020, 05:39 AM   #4217
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Fear is the currency of control.

We need to remember that.
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Originally Posted by GoingPlaces View Post
100%, fear is the enemy.
Thatís what we are threatened with... unfortunately!
We need to stay sober and vigilant against these tactics.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:01 AM   #4218
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Thought Iíd share this article and update ...
Donít know if anyone has seen this yet.

https://www.teaparty247.org/dr-fauci...s-a-must-read/
This paper is great, but anyone with a science background knew that as the N (number of patients identified with the virus ) increased (which it was long expected as testing caught up) the death rate would go down. The issue here is that, the virus is far, and i mean far more contagious, and thus more easily spread overwhelming healthcare facilities. As healthcare workers contract this from their patients, there are less of them to treat those in need and round and round we go. Secondly, the virus is far more deadly when we look at the Corona vs. Flu stratified by age, i.e. 60, 70, and 80 year old patients are far more likely to die.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:04 AM   #4219
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my dad passed away today due to pneumonia caused by the virus. he was on a ventilator for 3 days and everything was looking a lot better then his heart just stopped. its really no joke, stay safe everyone.

58 years old and completely healthy, unbelievable
Please accept my most sincere condolences to you and your family.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:05 AM   #4220
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Shouldn’t this be just another post in the CV thread?
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:14 AM   #4221
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Yeah unfortunately we have this pesky little thing in the United States called the Constitution. So thereís that.
You know, we have one too. We're not living in some dictatorship or something. And here culpable epidemic is a crime.

"Applying the interpretative criteria outlined by the Court of Cassation to the specific case, it would seem that the crime of culpable epidemic could be contested to the subject who, aware of having contracted the coronavirus, circulates freely, ignoring the precautionary measures imposed by the Decree of the President of the Council of Ministers "I stay home", and determine the spread of the disease through negligence or imprudence."

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Old 29 March 2020, 06:18 AM   #4222
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Shouldnít this be just another post in the CV thread?
Probably would get lost in the mix . ?

Mods can move it if they deem so necessary.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:19 AM   #4223
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You know, we have one too. We're not living in some dictatorship or something. And here culpable epidemic is a crime.

"Applying the interpretative criteria outlined by the Court of Cassation to the specific case, it would seem that the crime of culpable epidemic could be contested to the subject who, aware of having contracted the coronavirus, circulates freely, ignoring the precautionary measures imposed by the Decree of the President of the Council of Ministers "I stay home", and determine the spread of the disease through negligence or imprudence."

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I have a question, I have heard it reported that a major part of the spread in Italy was some kind of festival with 120k people right around the outbreak, that the numbers just exploded. Is that true?

Down south it looks like Mardi Gras might have caused our next out break

steve
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:23 AM   #4224
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You know, we have one too. We're not living in some dictatorship or something. And here culpable epidemic is a crime.

"Applying the interpretative criteria outlined by the Court of Cassation to the specific case, it would seem that the crime of culpable epidemic could be contested to the subject who, aware of having contracted the coronavirus, circulates freely, ignoring the precautionary measures imposed by the Decree of the President of the Council of Ministers "I stay home", and determine the spread of the disease through negligence or imprudence."

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What about the authorities who failed to shut airports when this was starting? Shouldnít they fall into this category as they knew the situation and facilitated their travel.


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Old 29 March 2020, 06:26 AM   #4225
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Why flattening the curve is overrated. Some good points to think about in this article.

https://www.pensford.com/why-flatten...UUJgW9P6W5I1nw
With all due respect to the OP, this linked article is a great example of why we should avoid advice from amateurs. This blog post is dangerous in its misinformation. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know, and he is blinded by obvious bias confirmation. He states opinion as fact and plays the martyr because he waited a week to post it. He completely ignores the highly likely change in the flu once warm weather comes. His analysis of the data charts is laughably inept (and incorrect), and his description of how the (inaccurately labeled) 'quarantine' in the US is operating is erroneous and misleading.

And this guy has the stones to suggest we shouldn't listen to experts! Don't walk - run away from anything this guy writes.

The only argument of merit he posits is the one many people have already been talking about - how much are we willing to sacrifice economically in order to flatten the curve and save lives? That's not news to anyone, imo. It's an interesting and important question, to be sure, but basing any discussion on this author's complete misunderstanding of the medical situation is not recommended.

The lack of a coherent national plan has been the biggest problem in the US, and our continued lack of leadership will only make things worse.

EDIT: for clarity, my last sentence only applies to our broad approach and the thousands of people involved in it, not any one person.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:45 AM   #4226
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Probably would get lost in the mix . ?

Mods can move it if they deem so necessary.
Itís seems too important to get lost in the mix. Glad you opened up a new one.

Just my own opinion.

It gives hope. We all need hope.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:46 AM   #4227
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With all due respect to the OP, this linked article is a great example of why we should avoid advice from amateurs. This blog post is dangerous in its misinformation. He simply doesn't know what he doesn't know, and he is blinded by obvious bias confirmation. He states opinion as fact and plays the martyr because he waited a week to post it. He completely ignores the highly likely change in the flu once warm weather comes. His analysis of the data charts is laughably inept (and incorrect), and his description of how the (inaccurately labeled) 'quarantine' in the US is operating is erroneous and misleading.

And this guy has the stones to suggest we shouldn't listen to experts! Don't walk - run away from anything this guy writes.

The only argument of merit he posits is the one many people have already been talking about - how much are we willing to sacrifice economically in order to flatten the curve and save lives? That's not news to anyone, imo. It's an interesting and important question, to be sure, but basing any discussion on this author's complete misunderstanding of the medical situation is not recommended.

The lack of a coherent national plan has been the biggest problem in the US, and our continued lack of leadership will only make things worse.
No offense taken.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:48 AM   #4228
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Itís seems too important to get lost in the mix. Glad you opened up a new one.

Just my own opinion.

It gives hope. We all need hope.
Thanks Seth, precisely why I opened a
new thread . Itís some good news that I
thought would be worth sharing .
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:53 AM   #4229
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Iíd be more inclined to read the entire report rather than trust a political publication that cherry picked a paragraph. Thanks anyways I hope thatís true.
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Old 29 March 2020, 06:55 AM   #4230
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No offense taken.
Thanks, brother. I appreciate seeing other opinions (and knowing what else is out there). My son is in medical school and we talk daily about Covid-19 and all the ideas floating around about it.

Best of luck in this time of challenges
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