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Old 9 March 2020, 10:46 PM   #1201
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Subsided? Where do you get your info?

This virus doesn’t pick its victims, it’s just a wave that keeps coming. I’m in Asia and it keeps getting worse.

Don’t stick your head in the sand guys, stay safe and use common sense please.


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CCP apparently published yesterday that there are 0 new cases in all of China now. So I think that's where travel guy is coming from. Haha $1,000 off In a few weeks it'll be 75% off.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:09 PM   #1202
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US has stopped flights from some areas. And passengers from some areas.

The question is how far you go vs. damage to livelihoods. I would prefer that we cut down more flights. But I understand the counter argument.
I was watching the news this morning and it shows most flight are now about 30-40 percent full ...airlines cant make money with a plane 1/3 full so they cut the flight.....of course this will lead to massive layoffs and a snowballing effect.
No matter how you look at it its a very bad situation that going to get worse before it gets better.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:12 PM   #1203
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The idea of cutting off air travel is part of a containment strategy. It might buy some time to institute stronger detection measures.

It could be done - after the 9|11 attack it was done in US. But that didnít solve the root cause. Eventually we resumed air travel then, and would need to do so in this instance.

With no vaccine to prevent COVID-19, non-pharma interventions to stem spreading coronavirus must shift.

Shift the focus from containment to personal protective measures, ďsocial distancingĒ measures, and environmental steps like strong surface cleaning measures.

The end result doesnít solve the other problems with the overall community transmission rate. We will need to run this gauntlet until we can turn the corner on protective measures stemming the spread rate.

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Well reasoned.

And for my pet peeve of the day...

Grocery stores in my area have hand wipe stands. If they can do it, why can't restaurants and coffee shops?

I have started carrying my own small hand sanitizer, but many do not. And after being on the road several days last week, and visiting several Starbucks and one fast food place, I wondered why these establishments don't spring for and sanitizers like I see in the grocery stores. These are high volume areas. With high hand to mouth incidence. Seems like this would make sense.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:12 PM   #1204
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You asked me to try to explain the slower spread in Hong Kong.



I think I did that. In fact you've partly explained it yourself.


If you refer to the mask, it does nothing. If you refer to the 60% alcohol content hand sanitizers that are getting sold like hot bread, it does nothing.

To consider Iíve been in the epicenter of the storm and still weathered it; means itís not that serious as the media portrays it to be.

Unlike many people who believe this is a doomsday scenario (and buying into the media hype) and have been confined to their residence, Iíve been living the same way - nothing has changed and Iíve cleared 8 countries within the last 6 weeks.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:19 PM   #1205
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Anyone know if South America and the Caribbean are reporting any cases?
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:24 PM   #1206
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Anyone know if South America and the Caribbean are reporting any cases?
Several dozen in S. America and just a few in the Caribbean.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:26 PM   #1207
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Several dozen in S. America and just a few in the Caribbean.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:28 PM   #1208
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Anyone know if South America and the Caribbean are reporting any cases?
Yes they are - pretty low numbers at the moment. Hopefully it will stay that way...

Today's confirmed numbers (no deaths) are:

Argentina 12
Chile 8
Brazil 25
Peru 7

St Martin 2
Dominican Republic 5
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:30 PM   #1209
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I Iíve been in the epicenter of the storm and still weathered it; means itís not that serious as the media portrays it to be.
Phew! No need for anyone to worry then with that extensive survey.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:32 PM   #1210
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Phew! No need for anyone to worry then with that extensive survey.


Schools stopped teaching logical debate and civics and long time ago. Can anyone tell?
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:34 PM   #1211
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If you refer to the mask, it does nothing. If you refer to the 60% alcohol content hand sanitizers that are getting sold like hot bread, it does nothing.

To consider Iíve been in the epicenter of the storm and still weathered it; means itís not that serious as the media portrays it to be.

Unlike many people who believe this is a doomsday scenario (and buying into the media hype) and have been confined to their residence, Iíve been living the same way - nothing has changed and Iíve cleared 8 countries within the last 6 weeks.
1. A non n95 mask may not prevent you from catching the virus, but it does inhibit an infected person from spreading it. If you have a contrary reputable cite, please share it.

2. Reputable hand sanitizers are 70% alcohol, not 60%. And every doctor that I know of has opined that use prevents the spread. If you have a contrary reputable cite, please share it.

3. With all due respect, a case study of 1 person such as yourself does not a study or science make. And has no empirical worth. For all you know, you were very lucky, have a natural immunity, or are an asymptomatic spreader.

I fail to understand why you would want to to encourage people to stop using hand sanitizers and practicing other known ways to cut down on transmission. Misinformation that minimizes a risk is as bad as risk over hype. And just as irresponsible.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:36 PM   #1212
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Schools stopped teaching logical debate and civics and long time ago. Can anyone tell?
Yes. Teaching critical thinking and quality debate (and music) seems to be undesired in the USA for grades 12 and below.

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Old 9 March 2020, 11:44 PM   #1213
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If you refer to the mask, it does nothing. If you refer to the 60% alcohol content hand sanitizers that are getting sold like hot bread, it does nothing.

To consider Iíve been in the epicenter of the storm and still weathered it; means itís not that serious as the media portrays it to be.

Unlike many people who believe this is a doomsday scenario (and buying into the media hype) and have been confined to their residence, Iíve been living the same way - nothing has changed and Iíve cleared 8 countries within the last 6 weeks.
And here is the link the the CDC which recommends use of hand santizer of at least 60% alcohol.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...treatment.html

And here is the quote from the CDC.

"Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after going to the bathroom; before eating; and after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.
If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty."

This same link discusses use of face masks.
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:44 PM   #1214
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Keep in mind that low numbers of confirmed cases may be a result of incapability or failure to detect. There arenít an unlimited number of testing kits, and some countries just donít have enough testing kits to do an aggressive discovery campaign.

In Korea the reported cases are high, but they also have a high testing rate. They even have drive through testing centers. Other countries have very low reported cases, but arenít exerting as much effort to detect the cases (fearing a drop in tourism they need for income).
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Old 9 March 2020, 11:59 PM   #1215
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I haven't 'picked' anything. These are the official reported cases of contraction and the official reported deaths compiled by the WHO, CDC, ECDH, NHC and DXY. The most authoritative sources - not Google. I am sorry they don't chime with your own research, but rest assured, I have not 'picked' anything - merely given you the official government figures.

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No. You picked certain statistics to get the higher death rates. Iíve been running the numbers myself and they are not that high even when you donít use the higher amount of probable cases. You start throwing around 3.5% death rate and we will have a massive global panic the likes that only an intimate world ending astroid impact could create. Itís not 3.5%.


No need to worry guys, our HVAC guy in Florida has ďcrunched the numbersĒ better than the WHO, CDC, and other NGOs. We are safe, nothing to worry about....




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Old 10 March 2020, 12:05 AM   #1216
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No need to worry guys, our HVAC guy in Florida has ďcrunched the numbersĒ better than the WHO, CDC, and other NGOs. We are safe, nothing to worry about....




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Didnít the moderators already warn you about getting nasty with other members? Thereís no need for it.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:08 AM   #1217
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Didnít the moderators already warn you about getting nasty with other members? Thereís no need for it.
Agreed.

We have differences of opinion. Let's all get along without being nasty.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:10 AM   #1218
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If you refer to the mask, it does nothing. If you refer to the 60% alcohol content hand sanitizers that are getting sold like hot bread, it does nothing.

To consider Iíve been in the epicenter of the storm and still weathered it; means itís not that serious as the media portrays it to be.

Unlike many people who believe this is a doomsday scenario (and buying into the media hype) and have been confined to their residence, Iíve been living the same way - nothing has changed and Iíve cleared 8 countries within the last 6 weeks.


Great! Let me know how you feel in 14 days.


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Old 10 March 2020, 12:11 AM   #1219
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Didnít the moderators already warn you about getting nasty with other members? Thereís no need for it.


Nope. So far Iíve stayed on the right side of the TRF law.... my point with the above post is that you seem to be talking over a lot of people who share real knowledge and data on the subject. Your bravado and confidence on a subject you know (appear) to know little about is, frankly, dangerous. Iím merely highlighting how absurd some of your points are


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Old 10 March 2020, 12:15 AM   #1220
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Nope. So far I’ve stayed on the right side of the TRF law.... my point with the above post is that you seem to be talking over a lot of people who share real knowledge and data on the subject. Your bravado and confidence on a subject you know (appear) to know little about is, frankly, dangerous. I’m merely highlighting how absurd some of your points are


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Old 10 March 2020, 12:22 AM   #1221
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No need to worry guys, our HVAC guy in Florida has ďcrunched the numbersĒ better than the WHO, CDC, and other NGOs. We are safe, nothing to worry about....




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Nope. So far Iíve stayed on the right side of the TRF law.... my point with the above post is that you seem to be talking over a lot of people who share real knowledge and data on the subject. Your bravado and confidence on a subject you know (appear) to know little about is, frankly, dangerous. Iím merely highlighting how absurd some of your points are


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Keep it up and either this thread gets closed or you are out the door. Brett is offering his opinion and he's not attacking anyone. You should keep it that way also.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:22 AM   #1222
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Keep going.


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As the primary instigator in this thread I do find it ironic that you share this.

My post above was focused at your bold opinions that have been shared here for weeks. Often talking over others who share real data and facts. If you take that as a personal attack youíre being silly and defensive. The goal of this thread is to ensure that people get good information on a very serious subject.

Your posts seem to do the opposite and mostly opinion based. Sure, itís always good to have a contrarian, but at a certain point it becomes distasteful. Donít be surprised when you get shut down by others for sharing false information / opinion.


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Old 10 March 2020, 12:23 AM   #1223
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Keep going.


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Envuks- "my words were “don’t be a cheap bast@rd” in regards to you not pledging TRF. For $30 you could have proved me wrong in the moment and helped TRF(where you clearly spend a fair amount of time). In fact, I fully expected you to pledge and prove me wrong (that was the point of my original post), but I guess I’m just proving myself wrong"

Appaently he thinks your dumb and I am cheap. At least I can buy my way out of this vitriol. Hang in there Patton250 you are entitled to express a contrarian view.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:30 AM   #1224
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Envuks- "my words were “don’t be a cheap bast@rd” in regards to you not pledging TRF. For $30 you could have proved me wrong in the moment and helped TRF(where you clearly spend a fair amount of time). In fact, I fully expected you to pledge and prove me wrong (that was the point of my original post), but I guess I’m just proving myself wrong"

Appaently he thinks your dumb and I am cheap. At least I can buy my way out of this vitriol.


Bryant park, I love how I tried to put this little situation to bed and yet you still continue to try to attack me.... I don’t need to think anything, you’re still sitting there with a non-pledged TRF membership so....


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Old 10 March 2020, 12:46 AM   #1225
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Envuks has left the building - for good.

I know itís stressful - letís keep calm in the discussion

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Old 10 March 2020, 12:47 AM   #1226
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the Coronavirus outbreak thread

Thanks Mods for keeping the thread open and using the ban button as needed.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:50 AM   #1227
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It's perfectly possible to hold both the view that this COVID-19 outbreak is a serious problem and that there has been an over-reaction/hysteria in some quarters, especially from the media and SM commenters. There is no cognitive dissonance here.

If everyone keeps that in mind then this thread will persist like a mutated virion.
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Old 10 March 2020, 12:53 AM   #1228
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Thank you Mods!
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Old 10 March 2020, 01:05 AM   #1229
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If anything this virus has exposed the fact that most people just do not understand statistics, sampling, etc. at all
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Old 10 March 2020, 01:06 AM   #1230
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It's perfectly possible to hold both the view that this COVID-19 outbreak is a serious problem and that there has been an over-reaction/hysteria in some quarters, especially from the media and SM commenters. There is no cognitive dissonance here.

If everyone keeps that in mind then this thread will persist like a mutated virion.
I agree 100%. Eloquently put. Thank you.
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