the Coronavirus outbreak thread

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

From seeing all the panic and ridiculous actions of people the last few days... if this is the state of Human Beings then I hope it is the end of the world. We would be better off starting from scratch.

Dude, we get it, you were late getting some TP... but this comment is a bit much, in my opinion.

[Carry The Interest]

Latest in California:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavi...241212146.html
https://www.sacbee.com/news/business...241213696.html

Requesting closure of bars, wineries, night clubs and brew pubs and called for restaurants to reduce their occupancy by half.

[gnuyork]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Is there any number of cases or deaths that would convince you this is a real problem?

Originally Posted by Kowaco

Yes “mine”


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Class

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

From seeing all the panic and ridiculous actions of people the last few days... if this is the state of Human Beings then I hope it is the end of the world. We would be better off starting from scratch.

Concur

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Kowaco

Where

Here is a link to the ACEP site describing the physicians’ conditions. Though I realize you may not recognize the college of emergency physicians as a legitimate source of medical information during a time of media hysteria.

https://www.acep.org/corona/covid-19...quis-md-facep/

Originally Posted by Kowaco

Yes “mine”

Well, good luck to you. Admirable.

[Kowaco]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Here is a link to the ACEP site describing the physicians’ conditions. Though I realize you may not recognize the college of emergency physicians as a legitimate source of medical information during a time of media hysteria.

https://www.acep.org/corona/covid-19...quis-md-facep/

Well, good luck to you. Admirable.

I’m glad you sent the link, it’s certainly not unusual that one doctor a 70 year old man is in ICU and the other doctor in his 40,s presented with symptoms consistent with coved-19. No one here denies that coved-19 is deadly to elderly and no one denies that 40 year olds can’t get it either.
I think we need to all check back on this board in 90 days, anyone not checking in we can assume they died


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[huncho]

Originally Posted by Carry The Interest

Latest in California:

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavi...241212146.html
https://www.sacbee.com/news/business...241213696.html

Requesting closure of bars, wineries, night clubs and brew pubs and called for restaurants to reduce their occupancy by half.

all restaurants/bars are closed here starting tuesday, takeout only

[Carry The Interest]

Originally Posted by Kowaco

I think we need to all check back on this board in 90 days, anyone not checking in we can assume they died

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion on the severity of the matter and how society has been responding.

That being said, I am kindly asking you to keep these kind of remarks to yourself. Statements like this and some of your previous ones are flat-out unnecessary and crudely provocative. They're also insensitive to members who might be taking this issue more seriously or feeling it closer to home. I have no authority here to make you do this, just asking out of common decency for the rest of our community.

[Star Ferry]

All the relevant information about this virus is easily accessible through the CDC or mainstream media. Why not just close this thread

[Kowaco]

Originally Posted by Carry The Interest

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion on the severity of the matter and how society has been responding.



That being said, I am kindly asking you to keep these kind of remarks to yourself. Statements like this and some of your previous ones are flat-out unnecessary and crudely provocative. They're also insensitive to members who might be taking this issue more seriously or feeling it closer to home. I have no authority here to make you do this, just asking out of common decency for the rest of our community.

No problem see you in 90 days or not


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[BBL]

.
I appreciate different commentary and current status in countries from all our world's TRF members.

Along with others who have voiced appreciation to keep it open and the efforts by mods who are following Steve's rules, I am one that would hate to see this thread locked.

Steve and mods, please allow members to continue to share on this thread during these uncertain times.

Thank you,
DM

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Seibei

2009 flu, around 1000 million infected and around 300 thousand deaths.

This flu currently has about 170 thousand cases and 6.5 thousand deaths.

There is no comparison, this flu is far worse than the 2009 flu and has the potential to cause millions of deaths.

Agreed. Comparisons of COVID-19 disease to the seasonal flu (yes, Swine Flu too) are essentially irrelevant.

This virus has a higher R0 meaning it is more contagious.

This virus has a higher mortality rate.

So, it spreads more easily and kills more people who contract it.

The approx 25% who require hospitalization need more than some fluid replenishment and a pat on the back...they need heavy respiratory intervention that takes lots of skilled doctors and specialized equipment...that doesn't grow on trees, so there just isn't enough to go around if society lets this get out of hand.

Combine that with asymptomatic spreading and it's real handful to deal with.


Here is a nicely done video detailing the effort put into treating these cases when they present to the hospital.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0A0LyMru3I&t=664s


That's pretty much it at this point. The governments of most countries are finally aligning with the threat and unfortunately it seems that most will have to force the discipline of social distancing as people seemingly will NOT do it on their own for whatever reason.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Kowaco

War of the Worlds, Orson Welles and The Invasion from Mars. Never thought it could happen again, but it is.

Dress rehearsal.

[Seibei]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

The approx 25% who require hospitalization need more than some fluid replenishment and a pat on the back...they need heavy respiratory intervention that takes lots of skilled doctors and specialized equipment...that doesn't grow on trees, so there just isn't enough to go around if society lets this get out of hand.

It has gotten way out of hand in Italy where some people are being refused treatment because of insufficient resources. A terrible situation.

"In Italy, where more than 9,000 people have been diagnosed with COVID-19, doctors are scrambling to secure resources and treat patients. They have been forced to prioritise the young and otherwise healthy.

“It’s very hard to just prioritise the young over the old. That would not fly in the US,” Arthur Caplan, the head of the division of medical ethics at NYU School of Medicine in New York City, told Business Insider. “People would protest the idea that young lives are worth more inherently than older lives.”"

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/p...20-3?r=US&IR=T

Arthur Caplan says that prioritizing the young over the old would not fly in the USA. I wonder what alternative Arthur has in mind if he is faced with 50 critically ill patients and only has the resources to treat 25. Will he randomly choose 25 and send the other 25 home, even though some of the ones he chooses are elderly with underlying health conditions and will most likely perish anyway while some of the 25 sent home could certainly be saved with the right care? Does that make any sense? It makes no sense to me, none at all.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by BBL

.
I appreciate different commentary and current status in countries from all our world's TRF members.

Along with others who have voiced appreciation to keep it open and the efforts by mods who are following Steve's rules, I am one that would hate to see this thread locked.

Steve and mods, please allow members to continue to share on this thread during these uncertain times.

Thank you,
DM

Yes - I echo this. It’s been very helpful to learn about events around the world ahead of other media sources slower to report on outside of Europe

[nda]

I had thought the end of civilisation would involve robots and lasers - not from the Civet Spleen Appreciation Society in WuHan.

These are dark days and the uncertainty is very stressful - how big will this thing be? Will it effect me? My family? My friends? My business? My job? When will it end?

Fighting over lavatory paper reminds me of that quote - someone will correct me - that we are only 3 meals away from anarchy. Something like that.

Dark days indeed.... but I'm keeping smiling. :)

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by gnuyork

Dude, we get it, you were late getting some TP... but this comment is a bit much, in my opinion.

You’re entitled to your opinion and I’m entitled to mine.

[lear60man]

I can't wrap my head around the panic vs death rate percentage. Here in the US we had a nasty flu bug wipe out 50k in the 2017-18 season. I had to look that up because it wasn't news worthy, at least not 24/7 on TV. I get that this strain is reported to be even nastier but we are mid spring at this point and 50 deaths so far. Even if we hit 4,000 deaths, the panic is way out of proportion. Im a commercial pilot, even flew medivac for a few years with infected folk (SARS/MRSA). Nothing has gotten more air time than this bug.

Ill be super pissed if they impose some sort of nation wide travel ban to keep up with the Jones. At this point, its in every major city in the US....IE its spread nationwide, period. Avoiding large crowds, being smart, washing hands etc are all good practices that everyone should be doing everyday. At this point, containing it within neighborhoods, schools, households etc is the smartest course of action. Shutting down interstate commerce is window dressing and will have catastrophic effects on our economy with little health gain.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by lear60man

I can't wrap my head around the panic vs death rate percentage. Here in the US we had a nasty flu bug wipe out 50k in the 2017-18 season. I had to look that up because it wasn't news worthy, at least not 24/7 on TV. I get that this strain is reported to be even nastier but we are mid spring at this point and 50 deaths so far. Even if we hit 4,000 deaths, the panic is way out of proportion. Im a commercial pilot, even flew medivac for a few years with infected folk (SARS/MRSA). Nothing has gotten more air time than this bug.

Ill be super pissed if they impose some sort of nation wide travel ban to keep up with the Jones. At this point, its in every major city in the US....IE its spread nationwide, period. Avoiding large crowds, being smart, washing hands etc are all good practices that everyone should be doing everyday. At this point, containing it within neighborhoods, schools, households etc is the smartest course of action. Shutting down interstate commerce is window dressing and will have catastrophic effects on our economy with little health gain.

Extremely well expressed and from one Commercial Pilot to another I wholeheartedly agree. Let’s hold off on declaring the four horses of apocalypse inbound. Is it a serious issue? Absolutely. Do we all need to take appropriate precautions? Absolutely. But as you pointed out, there were far more deaths in the last bad virus and there was no panic, hoarding of toilet paper or other ridiculous demonstrations of human stupidity. I shook my head in disgust at some of the antics portrayed today when I visited my local super market. Toilet Paper? Really?

[THC]

Hey here is a question for any Doctors..

I am a hermit by rule anyway, but on the off chance I get this, I had a Pneumonia Vaccine about 2 years ago, and supposedly it stays good for five years. Will this help mitigate the virus pneumonia symptoms?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by THC

Hey here is a question for any Doctors..

I am a hermit by rule anyway, but on the off chance I get this, I had a Pneumonia Vaccine about 2 years ago, and supposedly it stays good for five years. Will this help mitigate the virus pneumonia symptoms?

Good question. I doubt it because I think the 19 is a unique strain, but if it helps, then that is good! Doctors?

[77T]

Originally Posted by THC

Hey here is a question for any Doctors..

I am a hermit by rule anyway, but on the off chance I get this, I had a Pneumonia Vaccine about 2 years ago, and supposedly it stays good for five years. Will this help mitigate the virus pneumonia symptoms?

Good question - interesting.

Did you re-vaccinate after they discovered the Prevnar13 was not enough? Or did you get the Pneumovax23 to start with?

There are many strains of bacteria that each of those vaccines protect against. (As you can see from their names’ numeric identifier).

But I haven’t seen anything about COVID-19 induced pneumonia having a unique class of bacteria. Pneumonia usually starts as viral pneumonia and then progresses to bacterial (the dangerous version).


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[THC]

Originally Posted by 77T

Good question - interesting.

Did you re-vaccinate after they discovered the Prevnar13 was not enough? Or did you get the Pneumovax23 to start with?

There are many strains of bacteria that each of those vaccines protect against. (As you can see from their names’ numeric identifier).

But I haven’t seen anything about COVID-19 induced pneumonia having a unique class of bacteria. Pneumonia usually starts as viral pneumonia and then progresses to bacterial (the dangerous version).


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Another great question.. I have no idea, as it was an afterthought when I got it, but only got the one.

[77T]

Originally Posted by THC

Another great question.. I have no idea, as it was an afterthought when I got it, but only got the one.

I’m not a doctor but here is a good overview. https://www.rediclinic.com/blog/faq-...hot-get-often/

So the answer for you will be that “1-shit” vaccination protection is valid for either 13 or 23 strains of bacteria. For those who get both shots, they are supposed to be protected against 36 total strains.

Once some medical professional can opine on the bacteria specificity in the current situation, you might be able to trace back with the doctor or clinic who vaccinated you.


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[THC]

Thanks Paul G (and you too, Paul)

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Here is a link to the ACEP site describing the physicians’ conditions. Though I realize you may not recognize the college of emergency physicians as a legitimate source of medical information during a time of media hysteria.

https://www.acep.org/corona/covid-19...quis-md-facep/

Well, good luck to you. Admirable.

To say that ACEP is accepted as a legitimate source of information is an understatement.

Last time I checked ACEP had about 20,000 emergency medicine physician members. Their practice guidelines and clinical policies are considered credible and authoritative by emergency medicine physicians.

In the legal arena, ACEP is accepted by state medical boards on clinical protocol and protocol related SOC (standard of care) issues. And in court, any person who calls himself an "expert" on emergency medicine who is not versed in ACEP's guidelines and policies is toast. So, yes I would say that ACEP is accepted a legitimate by physicians.

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by lear60man

I can't wrap my head around the panic vs death rate percentage. Here in the US we had a nasty flu bug wipe out 50k in the 2017-18 season. I had to look that up because it wasn't news worthy, at least not 24/7 on TV. I get that this strain is reported to be even nastier but we are mid spring at this point and 50 deaths so far. Even if we hit 4,000 deaths, the panic is way out of proportion. Im a commercial pilot, even flew medivac for a few years with infected folk (SARS/MRSA). Nothing has gotten more air time than this bug.

Ill be super pissed if they impose some sort of nation wide travel ban to keep up with the Jones. At this point, its in every major city in the US....IE its spread nationwide, period. Avoiding large crowds, being smart, washing hands etc are all good practices that everyone should be doing everyday. At this point, containing it within neighborhoods, schools, households etc is the smartest course of action. Shutting down interstate commerce is window dressing and will have catastrophic effects on our economy with little health gain.

Agreed


Before these knee jerk panic reactions were made, and jobs eliminated, I wish they would have thought about a man I once knew :

He was young, hard working, left to his own means raising a daughter by himself. Lived paycheck to paycheck, struggling to provide what was necessary without a young daughter knowing of the situation, because he was raised to be responsible. On occasion, there was only enough dinner for daughter on Thursday. Friday paychecks meant groceries, gas, and hopefully a packed sandwich daily for work the next week.

So, ................ instead telling little Buffy and Bobby that you have to cancel the weekend ski trip to the Alps, imagine telling a daughter “ you go ahead and eat dinner baby, daddy’s not hungry this evening”.


I still know that man, and now you do too ....................

Those that nonchalantly say “we’re going to have some hardships” don’t have a damn clue what hardships are.

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by THC

Hey here is a question for any Doctors..

I am a hermit by rule anyway, but on the off chance I get this, I had a Pneumonia Vaccine about 2 years ago, and supposedly it stays good for five years. Will this help mitigate the virus pneumonia symptoms?

The coronavirus can cause pneumonia, much like numerous other viruses and bacteria. Current pneumonia vaccines will not prevent lung infection caused by Covid-19, but they can prevent secondary pneumonias that might be caused by one of the agents covered by the vaccine. It’s my understanding that secondary pneumonias have not been common in this pandemic.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Extremely well expressed and from one Commercial Pilot to another I wholeheartedly agree. Let’s hold off on declaring the four horses of apocalypse inbound. Is it a serious issue? Absolutely. Do we all need to take appropriate precautions? Absolutely. But as you pointed out, there were far more deaths in the last bad virus and there was no panic, hoarding of toilet paper or other ridiculous demonstrations of human stupidity. I shook my head in disgust at some of the antics portrayed today when I visited my local super market. Toilet Paper? Really?

Good morning my friend. I believe the massive concern from some here comes from the scientific establishment being 100% convinced that 40-60% of the US population will contact this virus with at least (best case scenario) 1-1.5% death rate. Well with a population of 320,000,000 that would mean 160,000,000 infected and 1.6 Million dead. Also the reason for the forced social distancing is to attempt to prevent all 160,000,000 from getting sick at the same time. We only have 985,000 hospital beds and most of them are being used at any given time so the more we can spread out the infections the better.

My main problem with all this is all the misinformation. This thread has had a bunch of it as well. I have no idea what to believe. I have a very smart friend convinced that the US will be like Italy in a few weeks only he says we will be losing 3000-5000 people a day. He gets this from medical websites and some immunology doctor he listens to on a podcast. You don’t want to know his predictions this will have on small business.

In my opinion we are definitely in a day and age of overreaction in general. We see it with all kinds of other situations. Whether the media, the government and the population are overreacting in this situation we will be finding out shortly. I pray we are because the predictions are too terrible to contemplate.

[Brew]

My local grocer is rationing some goods already. We have one confirmed case in the county (I think, still).

FYI: https://www.wegmans.com/covid-19-res...purchase-items