the Coronavirus outbreak thread

[jatco]

Originally Posted by logo

Profound indeed, but absolutely necessary. Travel-related spread needs to stop to prevent further community spread, so post travel quarantine is important. And the economy would be in a much worse position in the long run with a virus that rampages through and destroys health systems world wide like it has in Italy. Everyone is taking a financial loss, whether we like it or not.

I agree, but the oddity, imo is that " .. Travel has not been restricted within Canada, domestic travel is continuing to operate as usual ".
- - So, travel between to infectious cities, ie, Vancouver and Toronto is OK..??
Don't get that.. Just sayin'

[superdog]

Originally Posted by gmh1013

im 62 one heart attack and diabetes.....im in poor health....need a cane or walker to get around.....

My dad is 75. Today is his birthday.

He’s had 5 heart attacks, has diabetes and his blood flow is so reduced to his heart he can’t walk 25 feet without stopping to catch his breath. He too walks with a cane.

Just about a year ago he beat cancer. They took his bladder and his prostate. He’s got a bag that goes along with him everywhere he goes.

He’s got a great attitude. Almost always in good spirits. Admittedly during the cancer fight he told me he wished he was dead a few times. But the man is an animal.

He has an unbeatable spirit. I wish I could control him a little better. But he’s in Arizona in a spot with zero cases at the moment. He’s a tough guy to keep down.

Always so impressed with him. But he too refuses to work on his health. He somehow managed to get McDonald’s breakfast for his birthday dinner tonight.

I wish you the best. I’m feel confident you will be just fine. Be well.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by 77T

This is an example of over-reacting when no underlying local emergency (outside of fear) warrants it. Sorry to hear you’re having to deal with it.

The NC Atty. General ought to school the County on “state of emergency” vs. “martial law”. The local powers granted counties under NC §166A-19.22. (Municipal or county declaration of state of emergency) do not include the action that news story explained.

Trump hasn’t invoked Stafford Act, NC Governor hasn’t enacted martial law, so Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 of the US Constitution is still intact. (Freedom of movement guaranteed in the Privileges and Immunities Clause)

Just my 2¢


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Paul:

I have never looked at this issue before. But you might want to look at N.C.G.S. § 166A-19.3(b)

(b) Type of Prohibitions and Restrictions Authorized.--The ordinances authorized by this section may permit prohibitions and restrictions:
(1) Of movements of people in public places, including any of the following:
a. Imposing a curfew.
b. Directing and compelling the voluntary or mandatory evacuation of all or part of the population from any stricken or threatened area within the governing body's jurisdiction.
c. Prescribing routes, modes of transportation, and destinations in connection with evacuation.
d. Controlling ingress and egress of an emergency area, and the movement of persons within that area.
e. Providing for the closure, within the emergency area, of streets, roads, highways, bridges, public vehicular areas, or other areas ordinarily used for vehicular travel, except to the movement of emergency responders and other persons necessary for recovery from the emergency. In addition to any other notice or dissemination of information, notification of any closure of a road or public vehicular area under the authority of this sub-subdivision shall be given to the Department of Transportation as soon as practicable. The ordinance may designate the sheriff to exercise the authority granted by this sub-subdivision. G.S. 166A-19.70(c) and (d) shall apply to this sub-subdivision.
(2) Of the operation of offices, business establishments, and other places to or from which people may travel or at which they may congregate.
(3) Upon the possession, transportation, sale, purchase, and consumption of alcoholic beverages.
(4) Upon the possession, transportation, sale, purchase, storage, and use of gasoline, and dangerous weapons and substances, except that this subdivision does not authorize prohibitions or restrictions on lawfully possessed firearms or ammunition. As used in this subdivision, the term “dangerous weapons and substances” has the same meaning as it does under G. S. 14-288.1. As used in this subdivision, the term “firearm” has the same meaning as it does under G.S. 14-409.39(2).
(5) Upon other activities or conditions the control of which may be reasonably necessary to maintain order and protect lives or property during the state of emergency.

N.C.G.S. § 166A-19.31

Stay safe.

[Star Ferry]

Paul, "police power" has been interpreted broadly by the courts. It's not as clear-cut as saying freedom of movement is a constitutional right.

[77T]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

Paul:

I have never looked at this issue before. But you might want to look at N.C.G.S. § 166A-19.3(b)

Thanks, I think you mean N.C.G.S. § 166A- 19.31(b)

I looked at that, but I believe it is governed by N.C.G.S. § 166A-19.22(a) - that a state of emergency exists in a county.

In other words, in absence of a true emergency then the governing body is using a tortured interpretation of the statute. But again just my 2¢.

I understand why they are doing it - perhaps motivated by fear - or to insure the peace of mind among constituents.




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[logo]

Originally Posted by jatco

I agree, but the oddity, imo is that " .. Travel has not been restricted within Canada, domestic travel is continuing to operate as usual ".
- - So, travel between to infectious cities, ie, Vancouver and Toronto is OK..??
Don't get that.. Just sayin'

I agree with you 100% on that. Everything should shut down in North America

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by logo

I agree with you 100% on that. Everything should shut down in North America

Everything???

[chappuy1750]

This is interesting.

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coro...-20200317.html

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Let’s see... The Beach in California.... or the frozen North.... uhm.... Decisions Decisions....

The beach never changes. My yard looks like this today, but it will look different in a month.

[logo]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Everything???

Anything where there’s ability to make significant public interaction - bars, restaurants, stores, flights. Take out, groceries and drive thru food ok, as well as essential services. Transit needs to be limited to low numbers. Businesses must make every effort to have people work from home. Even doctors should reduce patient loads to only those cases that truly must be seen urgently, non-urgent things can be delayed. The more seriously and we take this thing now in reducing all possible public interaction, the easier it will be in a week or two weeks from now.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by logo

Anything where there’s ability to make significant public interaction - bars, restaurants, stores, flights. Take out, groceries and drive thru food ok, as well as essential services. Transit needs to be limited to low numbers. Businesses must make every effort to have people work from home. Even doctors should reduce patient loads to only those cases that truly must be seen urgently, non-urgent things can be delayed. The more seriously and we take this thing now in reducing all possible public interaction, the easier it will be in a week or two weeks from now.

OK that’s not everything. Thanks for clarifying.

[superdog]

Kansas canceled school for the rest of the year.

Not two weeks. Not a month and we will see. For the year.

Sorry, this just idiotic. Okay, close em up. Take time off. Reevaluate in a few weeks.

But nope. Let’s go. Let’s just cancel it right now. 100 deaths at the moment.

Tom Hanks out if they hospital in 3 days. But no one is talking about that.

Everyone is drunk off their ass for St paddies day. Yet everyone is worried about their immune system.

Cmon!!!

I mean, cmon!!!!

[42itus]

Originally Posted by superdog

Kansas canceled school for the rest of the year.

Not two weeks. Not a month and we will see. For the year.

Sorry, this just idiotic. Okay, close em up. Take time off. Reevaluate in a few weeks.

But nope. Let’s go. Let’s just cancel it right now. 100 deaths at the moment.

Tom Hanks out if they hospital in 3 days. But no one is talking about that.

Everyone is drunk off their ass for St paddies day. Yet everyone is worried about their immune system.

Cmon!!!

I mean, cmon!!!!

I love your views on this topic.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by superdog

Kansas canceled school for the rest of the year.

Not two weeks. Not a month and we will see. For the year.

Sorry, this just idiotic. Okay, close em up. Take time off. Reevaluate in a few weeks.

But nope. Let’s go. Let’s just cancel it right now. 100 deaths at the moment.

Tom Hanks out if they hospital in 3 days. But no one is talking about that.

Everyone is drunk off their ass for St paddies day. Yet everyone is worried about their immune system.

Cmon!!!

I mean, cmon!!!!

I think that's the rest of this SCHOOL year. 2019 / 2020 semester, which would be over in May anyway.

[JasoninDenver]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I think that's the rest of this SCHOOL year. 2019 / 2020 semester, which would be over in May anyway.

I agree, plus a great deal of commentary I have heard on the issue said it my be cheaper to make the decision now rather than keep them on standby for an indeterminate time. I recall Kansas having budget issue a couple of years ago and wonder if this might be the reason for such an early move.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

I agree, plus a great deal of commentary I have heard on the issue said it my be cheaper to make the decision now rather than keep them on standby for an indeterminate time. I recall Kansas having budget issue a couple of years ago and wonder if this might be the reason for such an early move.

They are still paying the teachers.

Which they should be. It’s the right thing to do.

But no plan in place at all. No info on remote schooling...nothing. Just a sweeping measure with little to no thought whatsoever.

But hey. No one can accuse them of not doing enough. Or thinking and finding a measured solution.

[superdog]

I suppose zero thought to how the families will be effected or a accomodate. Someone will have to stay home. Local economies will soon fall.

Hunger, famine, mobs.

Say goodbye to Rome. This is how the latest empire falls. Panic.

Interesting how this all went down.

I feel like this is a James Bond movie.

[statsman]

It seems to me that the lesson here is be like Hong Kong, and don’t be like Italy. Hong Kong remembered lessons from SARS and snapped to it on first word, social distancing, hygiene and so forth. Italy had no such experience and did too little, too late.

The US is both. NYC (950 diagnosed cases), Seattle (650 cases) and the Bay Area (300+ cases) are Italy (NYC didn’t close bars until today). The rest of the country is more like Hong Kong (Dallas, with 28 diagnoses cases, closed bars and gyms a few days ago). My hope is that the period of severe intervention can be less than in the areas with more severe outbreaks (weeks instead of months).

[77T]

Originally Posted by superdog

I suppose zero thought to how the families will be effected or a accomodate. Someone will have to stay home. Local economies will soon fall.

Hunger, famine, mobs.

Say goodbye to Rome. This is how the latest empire falls. Panic.

Interesting how this all went down.

I feel like this is a James Bond movie.

Well I get your passion on this Seth.

But the school system doesn’t run right if teachers, custodians, culinary and other staff become infected along with the kids who transit twixt home and school. There is a burden to the parents but the alternative is much worse.

This will not be 2 weeks and done.

Kansas may well be right - only time will tell.


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[TheDude]

Originally Posted by statsman

It seems to me that the lesson here is be like Hong Kong, and don’t be like Italy. Hong Kong remembered lessons from SARS and snapped to it on first word, social distancing, hygiene and so forth. Italy had no such experience and did too little, too late.

The US is both. NYC (950 diagnosed cases), Seattle (650 cases) and the Bay Area (300+ cases) are Italy (NYC didn’t close bars until today). The rest of the country is more like Hong Kong (Dallas, with 28 diagnoses cases, closed bars and gyms a few days ago). My hope is that the period of severe intervention can be less than in the areas with more severe outbreaks (weeks instead of months).

Yup. We just had a conference call with our HK colleagues and they were adamant that we should be wearing masks to cut down on unwittingly spreading the virus. They made the claim that Asians wear masks out of consideration to others, not for protection of self... They also said people over there give you dirty looks if you aren’t wearing a mask in times like this because in their culture you’re the bad guy not doing his part.


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[c41006]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

I think that's the rest of this SCHOOL year. 2019 / 2020 semester, which would be over in May anyway.

Exactly. Saying the rest of the YEAR sounds far more dramatic than it actually is.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by superdog

Tom Hanks out if they hospital in 3 days. But no one is talking about that.
!!!

Tom Hanks humor.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Tom Hanks humor.

I saw this. There’s a few out there.

Very funny stuff.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by statsman

It seems to me that the lesson here is be like Hong Kong, and don’t be like Italy. Hong Kong remembered lessons from SARS and snapped to it on first word, social distancing, hygiene and so forth. Italy had no such experience and did too little, too late.

The US is both. NYC (950 diagnosed cases), Seattle (650 cases) and the Bay Area (300+ cases) are Italy (NYC didn’t close bars until today). The rest of the country is more like Hong Kong (Dallas, with 28 diagnoses cases, closed bars and gyms a few days ago). My hope is that the period of severe intervention can be less than in the areas with more severe outbreaks (weeks instead of months).

Having lived in hong kong for 3 years, I don't think it's a fair comparison.

It's a semi-autonomous city-state with few points of entry. It's not a big, diverse country with several layers of government.

Logistically, they are experienced with past epidemics. most of the people live in large apartment towers, and half are in public housing towers, which means testing/screening can be concentrated at entries to these buildings. Culturally, there's more conformity than we have here (and that's my observation from living there, it's not a critique) and the people care a lot about being hygienic. Many people already own masks and wear them any time they get sick.

I'm glad HK, Korea, Japan, etc. have gotten things under control. I think we can learn from them, but I do not think their results are a meaningul yardstick for us.

[BNABOD]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Yup. We just had a conference call with our HK colleagues and they were adamant that we should be wearing masks to cut down on unwittingly spreading the virus. They made the claim that Asians wear masks out of consideration to others, not for protection of self... They also said people over there give you dirty looks if you aren’t wearing a mask in times like this because in their culture you’re the bad guy not doing his part.


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Totally agree with how they do things.
I travelled home back from DEN Sunday wore a mask, went to the store Monday first thing wore a mask ....guess what all I heard was “jeez “
“What are you doing “ .....people just don’t get it

[scarlet knight]

Originally Posted by statsman

It seems to me that the lesson here is be like Hong Kong, and don’t be like Italy. Hong Kong remembered lessons from SARS and snapped to it on first word, social distancing, hygiene and so forth. Italy had no such experience and did too little, too late.

The US is both. NYC (950 diagnosed cases), Seattle (650 cases) and the Bay Area (300+ cases) are Italy (NYC didn’t close bars until today). The rest of the country is more like Hong Kong (Dallas, with 28 diagnoses cases, closed bars and gyms a few days ago). My hope is that the period of severe intervention can be less than in the areas with more severe outbreaks (weeks instead of months).

Let’s be South Korea, Singapore, South Korea. We need more tests, more social distancing, more hospital beds and more ventilators.

[gmh1013]

I read 20 percent unemployment ???WTH thats getting up to great depression level.
My best guess would be 13-14 percent ....the highest I have ever seen was right after Ronnie took office it hit 11 percent in Nov/ Dec of 81 if I remember right but 20 is unbelievable?

[Dawg2]

Originally Posted by gmh1013

I read 20 percent unemployment ???WTH thats getting up to great depression level.
My best guess would be 13-14 percent ....the highest I have ever seen was right after Ronnie took office it hit 11 percent in Nov/ Dec of 81 if I remember right but 20 is unbelievable?

We are setting up to make the great depression look like a recession.

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[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Having lived in hong kong for 3 years, I don't think it's a fair comparison.

It's a semi-autonomous city-state with few points of entry. It's not a big, diverse country with several layers of government.

Logistically, they are experienced with past epidemics. most of the people live in large apartment towers, and half are in public housing towers, which means testing/screening can be concentrated at entries to these buildings. Culturally, there's more conformity than we have here (and that's my observation from living there, it's not a critique) and the people care a lot about being hygienic. Many people already own masks and wear them any time they get sick.

I'm glad HK, Korea, Japan, etc. have gotten things under control. I think we can learn from them, but I do not think their results are a meaningul yardstick for us.

As I wrote earlier, even from an optics point of view, when you see footage of the HK response, it looks very reassuring to the public.

Everybody in a responding role has uniformity in their equipment and they are actively disinfecting places, testing, taking temps.


SARS was actually 17yrs ago, so for that muscle memory to still be in place is damn impressive.

[scarlet knight]

If businesses are closed, workers unpaid, how do people buy or pay for things? A $1000 check from the government doesn’t solve much. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. This looks bad.