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Old 1 October 2019, 05:03 PM   #1
JasonBetts
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Explorer II Steve McQueen 1655 reading

Help needed from all Steve McQueen aficionados out here.

I'm by far not an expert in vintage Rolexes as I only have a transitional 16750 matte dial bought from a friend.

I was offered this 1655 full set available locally. What's known / claimed:

- Serial 3.4 million
- all original untouched dial, hands, date wheel
- unpolished case, bezel and bracelet

Any inputs on the conditions ie: period correctness, Franken, touched up, etc?

Price offered is really attractive for a full set at below usd30k as I did my homework at chrono24 and found the cheapest full set on offer is at usd40k.

Should I be cautious or should I jump at it?







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Old 1 October 2019, 05:20 PM   #2
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I managed to get a zoom on the dial


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Old 2 October 2019, 12:53 AM   #3
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I managed to get a zoom on the dial


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Also take a chance to get the photos of the box and paper to Ensure that it is correct full set.


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Old 2 October 2019, 04:19 AM   #4
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As stated, much better photos are needed, especially of the dial/hands.

What I will say is that the case does indeed look very nice, and possibly unpolished. Those crown guards look untouched. See how long they are? That's very distinctive to this reference. (See my MK2's crown guards below for comparison; I believe my watch was lightly polished at some point.)

However, that minute hand looks shot and would definitely bug me. Not sure if it's just dirt or corrosion, but something's going on. The tritium also looks a little funky on the 24-hour hand, but hard to tell for sure in the photos.

And what exactly is the "full set?" It can mean different things to different sellers. Is the Rolex guarantee paper punched?

Assuming everything checks out, it could be a fair deal for an MKI full set, but the jury's still out.
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Old 2 October 2019, 11:08 AM   #5
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As stated, much better photos are needed, especially of the dial/hands.

What I will say is that the case does indeed look very nice, and possibly unpolished. Those crown guards look untouched. See how long they are? That's very distinctive to this reference. (See my MK2's crown guards below for comparison; I believe my watch was lightly polished at some point.)

However, that minute hand looks shot and would definitely bug me. Not sure if it's just dirt or corrosion, but something's going on. The tritium also looks a little funky on the 24-hour hand, but hard to tell for sure in the photos.

And what exactly is the "full set?" It can mean different things to different sellers. Is the Rolex guarantee paper punched?

Assuming everything checks out, it could be a fair deal for an MKI full set, but the jury's still out.


That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


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Old 2 October 2019, 11:15 AM   #6
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That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


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The straight seconds is of the earlier, mark 1 versions.
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Old 3 October 2019, 05:30 AM   #7
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That's a really nice example you have there swish. As questioned, 1655 have variations on the second hand? I noticed yours have this 'lollipop' hand. Which one came first and does it determine some sort of value?


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Thanks! The MKIs, first version with the straight seconds hand, usually command a premium, but condition is a lot more important overall. But if there was an MKI and, say, an MK2 in exactly the same condition, the MKI theoretically would be priced a little higher.

I would humbly, politely and respectfully suggest that you research the reference for at least several weeks (maybe months) before plunging into the deep end with the purchase of a $30,000 full set. There's a ton of information online and you will learn a lot. It could also save you a lot of money and headaches.

Good luck.
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Old 2 October 2019, 11:00 AM   #8
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Also take a chance to get the photos of the box and paper to Ensure that it is correct full set.


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Old 1 October 2019, 11:46 PM   #9
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If you want informed advice, it would be a good idea for you to post better photos at high resolution. Try to take photos where the hands aren't blocking important parts of the dial. And photos that really show the condition of the case. Various angles, etc.

Regarding price, I'd do some research beyond C24. For example, EWC recently had a full set (MkII, if I recall correctly) listed for $27.5k, and it took a long time to sell. It's all about condition. Prices on C24 are all over the place, and without knowing the specific seller, the price doesn't mean much to me. Watches can sit unsold on C24 for years.
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Old 2 October 2019, 12:27 AM   #10
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I haven’t gotten the chance to see the example in person. The photos were provided by the seller but i agree the resolution is bad.

Good point on the value. I’ll take into consideration.

I’m planning to check it out this weekend. Will try to take better photos myself


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Old 2 October 2019, 12:49 AM   #11
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Looks like an MK1 dial with MK1 bezel but like others have said better photos are needed.


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Old 2 October 2019, 06:54 AM   #12
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I’m seeing two different photos here...one straight hand and one with later dot thingie...
Confused ��
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Old 2 October 2019, 07:06 AM   #13
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The photo above your post is Aaron's (Swish77) watch, as stated in his post
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Old 3 October 2019, 06:09 PM   #14
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Here are some more pictures. Hopefully the resolution is a bit better.


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Old 3 October 2019, 06:22 PM   #15
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Old 3 October 2019, 06:40 PM   #16
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Is the case what's identified as 'thin case'?


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Old 3 October 2019, 08:02 PM   #17
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After some research, I'm a bit worried about the crown guards. They look huge, flat and out of proportion. What do you guys think?




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Old 4 October 2019, 12:35 AM   #18
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After some research, I'm a bit worried about the crown guards. They look huge, flat and out of proportion. What do you guys think?



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It could very well be an unpolished case with those long crown guards, and also the angle of the photo. However, you're right to be cautious, and I'd look online to see if you can find photos of an unpolished MKI 1655 with similar crown guards.

Also, keep in mind that cases/crown guards from different versions of the same reference, and even watch to watch, can vary a little. These cases were hand-finished at the Rolex factory back in the day. Even unpolished cases can look slightly funky/uneven at times.

Clear photos of the serial and reference numbers between the lugs could help confirm the authenticity of the case.
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Old 4 October 2019, 12:38 AM   #19
JasonBetts
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It could very well be an unpolished case with those long crown guards, and also the angle of the photo. However, you're right to be cautious, and I'd look online to see if you can find photos of an unpolished MKI 1655 with similar crown guards.

Also, keep in mind that cases/crown guards from different versions of the same reference, and even watch to watch, can vary a little. These cases were hand-finished at the Rolex factory back in the day. Even unpolished cases can look slightly funky/uneven at times.

Clear photos of the serial and reference numbers between the lugs could help confirm the authenticity of the case.


Thanks swish. I'm planning to see the example in person this Saturday. I'll try to get some photos of the fonts in between lugs


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Old 3 October 2019, 09:02 PM   #20
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I think vintage watches are a minefield and I would prefer to not walk into it. So many variations and issues that impact value in a significant way. By not being an expert you are at the mercy of the seller and the internet. I admire these watches from afar but a buying experience I do not want to have.
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Old 3 October 2019, 09:57 PM   #21
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I think vintage watches are a minefield and I would prefer to not walk into it. So many variations and issues that impact value in a significant way. By not being an expert you are at the mercy of the seller and the internet. I admire these watches from afar but a buying experience I do not want to have.
i agree, even after all the research done, id tread softly and at that id walk away more often than not just because its so risky.
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Old 4 October 2019, 12:14 AM   #22
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Like Aaron, I am sensing from the OP's questions that he hasn't quite reached the level of knowledge to feel comfortable buying a watch like this from a local seller. In the absence of first-hand expertise, the only way he should be buying the watch from a stranger is if he gets a fantastic price, and even that would carry risk. If the OP is going to pay a "dealer price", he should be buying from a well-established and respected high-end dealer.
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Old 4 October 2019, 12:35 AM   #23
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Like Aaron, I am sensing from the OP's questions that he hasn't quite reached the level of knowledge to feel comfortable buying a watch like this from a local seller. In the absence of first-hand expertise, the only way he should be buying the watch from a stranger is if he gets a fantastic price, and even that would carry risk. If the OP is going to pay a "dealer price", he should be buying from a well-established and respected high-end dealer.


Actually this watch is being offered by my regular reputable brick and mortar watch dealer.

However I'm not comfortable with their level of expertise too as vintage rolexes are not regularly traded here. I'm just worried my dealer too get a wrong evaluation of the example. I asked them which mark is the 1655 and they don't have a clue.

From where I come from, Rolexes are still considered status watches hence the best selling models are the latest trendy and blingy rolexes. Very few people here are willing to scoop 20-30k for a 'beaten up' vintage while with similar amount of money they can get the latest Daytona, etc.


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Old 4 October 2019, 01:25 AM   #24
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Actually this watch is being offered by my regular reputable brick and mortar watch dealer.

However I'm not comfortable with their level of expertise too as vintage rolexes are not regularly traded here. I'm just worried my dealer too get a wrong evaluation of the example. I asked them which mark is the 1655 and they don't have a clue.

From where I come from, Rolexes are still considered status watches hence the best selling models are the latest trendy and blingy rolexes. Very few people here are willing to scoop 20-30k for a 'beaten up' vintage while with similar amount of money they can get the latest Daytona, etc.


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Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood who was selling the watch. It's good that the seller has an established history, but I agree that vintage Rolex requires special knowledge, and a generic watch/jewelry retailer doesn't typically have that expertise. Perhaps they can give you some information about the history of the watch.

Also, if a high-priced vintage watch will be a hard sell where you live, you might consider making an offer at a significantly lower level. That way you will be protected if you find that the condition is not quite as expected. I would suspect that the seller purchased it at a low price or gave a low trade value for it. In my experience, watch/jewelry stores typically give terrible prices when they buy watches. My local Rolex AD will typically offer less than half of fair market value, and they generally flip it quickly to a broker.
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Old 4 October 2019, 02:27 AM   #25
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Thank you for clarifying, I misunderstood who was selling the watch. It's good that the seller has an established history, but I agree that vintage Rolex requires special knowledge, and a generic watch/jewelry retailer doesn't typically have that expertise. Perhaps they can give you some information about the history of the watch.



Also, if a high-priced vintage watch will be a hard sell where you live, you might consider making an offer at a significantly lower level. That way you will be protected if you find that the condition is not quite as expected. I would suspect that the seller purchased it at a low price or gave a low trade value for it. In my experience, watch/jewelry stores typically give terrible prices when they buy watches. My local Rolex AD will typically offer less than half of fair market value, and they generally flip it quickly to a broker.


Spot on Dan. They called me just now that some broker reserved the watch until they see and inspect it tomorrow. As i can’t make time tomorrow and if it’s sold, i guess it’s not supposed to be mine. If it’s not sold, i guess the broker doesn’t like what they’re seeing


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Old 4 October 2019, 03:06 AM   #26
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Spot on Dan. They called me just now that some broker reserved the watch until they see and inspect it tomorrow. As i can’t make time tomorrow and if it’s sold, i guess it’s not supposed to be mine. If it’s not sold, i guess the broker doesn’t like what they’re seeing


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They won't turn much of a profit with the broker, but they free up the money they invested in it, and they know the sale is final, and they won't have any problems from the broker afterwards.
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Old 5 October 2019, 04:38 PM   #27
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Update: it's now back available.

I saw the example in person andy impression it has all the matched patina from dial, case and bezel. Bracelets is also matched 78360 and 580.

As swish indicated above, the case does look unpolished with uniformed lug thickness. Lug holes seemed balanced too. Bevels are still consistently cut. They don't look new with many micro scratches.

One thing still bothers me is the shape of the crown guards especially the vertical line from the case up to the crown. They look super thick and far of about 1-2mm width.

Am I getting truly unpolished pristine case that or a case of sophisticated fabrication of high tech laser welding.


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Old 9 October 2019, 06:21 AM   #28
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Did you verify the SN and Ref # between the lugs? Also, the bracelet looks like it has a few links removed, are they available?
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Old 10 October 2019, 11:30 AM   #29
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Did you verify the SN and Ref # between the lugs? Also, the bracelet looks like it has a few links removed, are they available?


They failed to remove the 12 o'clock bracelet as it's stuck so the reference number was not visible. Extra Links are not available


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Old 10 October 2019, 05:40 PM   #30
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They failed to remove the 12 o'clock bracelet as it's stuck so the reference number was not visible. Extra Links are not available


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Bracelet is stuck?
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