AP 15400 vs 15500

[blacke90]

Originally Posted by blacke90

But then the argument can be having the word “automatic” is in line with the Jumbo lol

Opps, I meant the breaking up the Logo and “Audemars Piguet” separately in line with Jumbo.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by nnicot

No way, that'd mean they'd be swapping out a properly sized movement for an undersized movement. And adding the word "automatic". The uproar would be deafening!

Talking look wise of the dial. AP releases this SIHH has been, well, meh at best in my opinion.


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[lhawli]

Originally Posted by nnicot

No way, that'd mean they'd be swapping out a properly sized movement for an undersized movement. And adding the word "automatic". The uproar would be deafening!

Your argument of the movement is arbitrary and the “automatic” has been around with the RO for ever - check out the jumbo!


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[lhawli]

Originally Posted by ericksakti

well look wise and dial wise I agree this is true,



however, movement wise, I think it can be agreed upon that the new movement is superior and more suitable for the case.

The extra 10h reserve is neither here or there and the 4Hz is arbitrary. It’s like saying a V8 is better than a flat 6 of a 911.


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[ericksakti]

Originally Posted by lhawli

The extra 10h reserve is neither here or there and the 4Hz is arbitrary. It’s like saying a V8 is better than a flat 6 of a 911.


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Okay sure if thats how you want to think of it lol.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by ericksakti

Okay sure if thats how you want to think of it lol.

lets just ignore all the obvious upgrades and focus on the indices.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by ericksakti

Okay sure if thats how you want to think of it lol.

Originally Posted by GB-man

lets just ignore all the obvious upgrades and focus on the indices.

It’s not, I think you misunderstood. What I’m saying is that the design and look of the watch is what drives me (maybe most). If you were to own a 911 and they up the power by an extra 20hp and increased efficiency but the new design does not speak to you, would you buy it - example 911 (996).

The truth of the matter is I stare at my watch dial 99.9% of the time. The extra 10h I will not even notice and my 15400 is running at an epic +0.5 sec per day so what would the 4 Hz do for me - faster sweeping seconds?

I’m all for progress and pushing limits to higher levels - but had they upped WR to 100m and introduces a perpetual date, it may compensate for the ones that aren’t sold on the design.

I do appreciate the new movement, I really do. But not enough to say I will buy a watch that I don’t like the dial of over my current 15400. Of course that’s a personal taste and some (as we see) love the new design.

I’m just fundamentally turned off by the minute track and the date window that’s cut off as if they ran out of dial space. Feels like an afterthought especially from a brand like AP. Couple that with the reactions from the 11.59, it may have played with my perception.

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[SMD]

Originally Posted by ericksakti

well look wise and dial wise I agree this is true,

however, movement wise, I think it can be agreed upon that the new movement is superior and more suitable for the case.

Don’t know how anyone can conclude the movement is superior yet. It will take years to know how reliable and robust the new movement is.

[ericksakti]

Originally Posted by SMD

Don’t know how anyone can conclude the movement is superior yet. It will take years to know how reliable and robust the new movement is.

Well I meant its superior in term of power reserve, frequency, and size. For reliability and robustness it remains to be seen.

[redsubby]

To me, the only thing better on 15500 is the bigger movement with longer reserve, but other than that I would take 15400 in a heart beat.

[masterserg]

Higher frequency per se doesn't mean much.

Here's an interesting read.

https://quillandpad.com/2016/09/03/m...ncy-movements/

Key line here:

"Indeed, when it comes to mechanical accuracy, expert construction, adjustment, and overall movement quality can take precedence over the speed of a regulating organ."

Sounds a lot like the megapixel discussion ... 4 must be better than 3 ....

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by lhawli

It’s not, I think you misunderstood. What I’m saying is that the design and look of the watch is what drives me (maybe most). If you were to own a 911 and they up the power by an extra 20hp and increased efficiency but the new design does not speak to you, would you buy it - example 911 (996).

The truth of the matter is I stare at my watch dial 99.9% of the time. The extra 10h I will not even notice and my 15400 is running at an epic +0.5 sec per day so what would the 4 Hz do for me - faster sweeping seconds?

I’m all for progress and pushing limits to higher levels - but had they upped WR to 100m and introduces a perpetual date, it may compensate for the ones that aren’t sold on the design.

I do appreciate the new movement, I really do. But not enough to say I will buy a watch that I don’t like the dial of over my current 15400. Of course that’s a personal taste and some (as we see) love the new design.

I’m just fundamentally turned off by the minute track and the date window that’s cut off as if they ran out of dial space. Feels like an afterthought especially from a brand like AP. Couple that with the reactions from the 11.59, it may have played with my perception.

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Fair enough. I too put aesthetics first when choosing any watch.

BTW you are incredibly fortunate with that accuracy on your 15400. I’ve had 7 APs with a 3120 base caliber and most averaged ~15 seconds per day.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Fair enough. I too put aesthetics first when choosing any watch.



BTW you are incredibly fortunate with that accuracy on your 15400. I’ve had 7 APs with a 3120 base caliber and most averaged ~15 seconds per day.

That’s surprising coming from a caliber that is hailed as one of the greatest automatic movement ever made.

Funny prior to my 15400 addition, my most accurate watch was my speedy pro - ironically also 3Hz and not even COSC.


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[SMD]

Originally Posted by lhawli

That’s surprising coming from a caliber that is hailed as one of the greatest automatic movement ever made.

Funny prior to my 15400 addition, my most accurate watch was my speedy pro - ironically also 3Hz and not even COSC.


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Not surprising. Out of the factory the 3120 is within spec at +13 (they usually run fast). Need to get it dialed in by APSC. Not sure about greatest movement - I most certainly would never say that given my experiences.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by SMD

Not surprising. Out of the factory the 3120 is within spec at +13 (they usually run fast). Need to get it dialed in by APSC. Not sure about greatest movement - I most certainly would never say that given my experiences.

You can get the BEST movement ever and still have it run fast or slow - doesn’t make the caliber bad! It’s all about how you adjust your movement and that’s a skilled watchmaker.

Cal. 3120 is COSC so for them to officially claim +13 out of factory and call that to spec is quite surprising.

Also, regarding it being one of the greatest auto movements is not my claim - just google it.


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[singe89]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Fair enough. I too put aesthetics first when choosing any watch.

BTW you are incredibly fortunate with that accuracy on your 15400. I’ve had 7 APs with a 3120 base caliber and most averaged ~15 seconds per day.

Think that had more to do with APs lack of proper regulation. I’ve had a few that ran fast but we’re all H serial. All the later ones have run less than 3 sec fast per day. My ceramic 44mm is my most accurate at + 1/2 sec per day.

I don’t care about 3 vs. 4hz as long as it’s regulated properly. Although wouldn’t 3hz have less wear than a 4hz?

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by singe89

I don’t care about 3 vs. 4hz as long as it’s regulated properly. Although wouldn’t 3hz have less wear than a 4hz?

In theory yes, 3Hz has less wear and some argue can have higher PR also. I’ll let experts chime in on the technical stuff.

15500 or 15400 - I don’t see it as new vs old - more so a slightly rugged sporty look vs a more elegant elegant sporty look. It’s a brand by AP so can’t go wrong!

That date window running out of dial space on the 15500 drives me absolutely nuts.

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[SMD]

Originally Posted by lhawli

You can get the BEST movement ever and still have it run fast or slow - doesn’t make the caliber bad! It’s all about how you adjust your movement and that’s a skilled watchmaker.

Cal. 3120 is COSC so for them to officially claim +13 out of factory and call that to spec is quite surprising.

Also, regarding it being one of the greatest auto movements is not my claim - just google it.


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COSC? Not sure what that has to do with AP. I had many issues with the 3120, being “consistently” fast was not one of them. As for greatest auto movements I guess it must be true since it’s on the internet.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by SMD

COSC? Not sure what that has to do with AP. I had many issues with the 3120, being “consistently” fast was not one of them. As for greatest auto movements I guess it must be true since it’s on the internet.

I think we’re getting off topic here and partly my fault. Appreciate your sarcasm tho!

Don’t take my comment out of context. I brought up COSC referencing a mention of +15 sec fast out of the factory or something like that. Would expect AP doing at best as good as or better. I did make a typo and I meant to say “isn’t” COSC.

Also just cause you had issues with you 3120 doesn’t make it a bad caliber. I had a misaligned hour hand with a DJ, a day that stayed on Sunday with my day-date and 2 issues with my BLNR one needing a crown replacement. I guess that makes Rolex a bad watchmaker?

Plus the internet is a good source for information - you need to filter through all the BS. It also has claims that the Valjoux 7750 being one of the greatest chronograph out there, but that must be BS also as it’s on the internet right?

Cheers


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by lhawli

That’s surprising coming from a caliber that is hailed as one of the greatest automatic movement ever made.

Funny prior to my 15400 addition, my most accurate watch was my speedy pro - ironically also 3Hz and not even COSC.


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My most accurate watch was a tudor Pelagos blue dial

Also I do not believe the 3120 is cosc.

Originally Posted by singe89

Think that had more to do with APs lack of proper regulation. I’ve had a few that ran fast but we’re all H serial. All the later ones have run less than 3 sec fast per day. My ceramic 44mm is my most accurate at + 1/2 sec per day.

I don’t care about 3 vs. 4hz as long as it’s regulated properly. Although wouldn’t 3hz have less wear than a 4hz?

I agree most any caliber can be regulated to keep good time, the thing is they should already come regulated properly.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Also I do not believe the 3120 is cosc.

You are correct and I knew that. I just realized I said is instead of isn’t. What I meant to say is that +13 is outside COSC and you would expect as good as or better from an AP caliber.



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[sophicmercury]

Originally Posted by rexg1

Hey everyone,

I just picked up my RO 15400 today and saw that the 15500 was just released. What does this mean for the 15400? Are prices going to drop immediately due to it being discontinued?

Bonus: Attaching the picture of the 15400 in Ruthenium dial below

I think that prices will increase for the 15400 in the long term.

[Zucca]

Originally Posted by blacke90

I don’t think you’ll notice much on the thicker case of the 15500. I have a 41mm ROC and the thicker case doesn’t bother me at all. I believe the 15500 is thinner than ROC. Hope this helps. Will you be selling your 15400?

Yes, Maybe you Are right, Maybe it want bother me. But still dont like it getting bigger. I will probably sell the 15400 if i get my hands on a 15500 blue. Or maybe i will keep Both for a while and see which one i prefer.

[dwatcher]

i think the 15400 should hold a prominent value especially that great ruthenium dial.

[blacke90]

Originally Posted by dwatcher

i think the 15400 should hold a prominent value especially that great ruthenium dial.

Agree with you. Some prefer the more elongated hour markers. Still debating whether I should keep my black 15400 or own both 15500 and 15400 the same time.

[Tschyvon]

Originally Posted by dwatcher

i think the 15400 should hold a prominent value especially that great ruthenium dial.

*Blue

[masterserg]

I never had issues with any 3120 and most I had (quite a few) had been accurate. I never bothered measuring anything. True I never kept anything long enough to assess long term. I had a crown pop out on a 3126 but that's about it.

Either way, the bigger display window looks great. I just hope the skeleton weight is not the finished product.

[redsubby]

Originally Posted by masterserg

I never had issues with any 3120 and most I had (quite a few) had been accurate. I never bothered measuring anything. True I never kept anything long enough to assess long term. I had a crown pop out on a 3126 but that's about it.

Either way, the bigger display window looks great. I just hope the skeleton weight is not the finished product.

+1 on skeleton weight not the finished product. The one on 11.59 looks much better.

[Fedpete]

Originally Posted by lhawli

Do you plan on racing with a 911 or off-road with a G-Wagon? The answer is no - but you get satisfaction from knowing it’s capable.

The RO (and I own a 15400) is not a dive watch correct. But it is a sports watch and in this day and age, at least 100m is expected from a sports watch. Rating of 50m is what I would expect from a dress watch with a leather strap.

So yea, the 15500 missed an apportioning in my opinion to up the WR rating.

With regards to the comparison, my whole collection is sports / professional watches - as is the majority of people here. So the fact that the RO is classified as a sports watch, I still prefer the 15400 as it is a more elegant sports watch that the more rugged sporty looking 15500.

Cheers!


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+1.


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[karasus]

I see lots of people arguing about how 4hz will make the watch somehow more accurate and closer to cosc.

Dunno what you will say about my 1960 Vacheron Chronometre Royal that is COSC rated but runs at a slow 2.5hz.

Accuracy depends on the skill of the watch maker regulating the watch, having higher HZ makes it easier to regulate but if the watch maker is not expected to spend time regulating the watch then its meaningless. Best wait for a few collectors to get their hands on these and see how they run (fast/slow/on-time).