3035 not self winding after service

[johnbicht]

I have just finished servicing my 16800 Submariner and there is one remaining problem. It drops about 5 to 10 degrees of amplitude every 24 hours. While it keeps good time - within the same 1.5 seconds for days - it eventually looses enough amplitude to alter it's rate.

In the process of servicing it, I discovered that the intermediate crown wheel had apparently not been lubricated at the last service, and running dry had worn considerably into the barrel bridge post that it pivots on. I presumed this was the trouble, so bought a better, but used, wheel and bridge.

I replaced the mainspring with an aftermarket Swiss made part. Barrel cleaned an oiled, at the inner surface that the bridal rubs on, with the proper Moebius 8201.

Carefully cleaned and oiled all quite according to the Rolex service information.

It still did not autowind. On manual winding of 40 turns the amplitude would run up to 300-310, and then within an hour and a half drop to 285 - 295, and then fall off each day. Let the spring wind down and it lasted 47 hours.

I then replaced that spring with a NOS sealed container Rolex part - regular strength - redoing the barrel cleaning and oiling again. Redid the automatic mechanism. Clean and oil to make certain I had done it correctly. By the way, there were no signs of wear on these parts under the 20X stereo scope I use all the time.

As a not insignificant aside, the thread by LordNinja which included much valuable comments by Rikki, and krone, was wonderful. I had never seen any mention anywhere of the ability to adjust beat error with that mechanism holding the hairspring stud.

I can only think of a couple possibilities. One the NOS spring may be not well lubricated after maybe possibly 20 years in the container? Is OE-07 on the lid a date code? The second is that the gib clip might be too thick? The previous service chap wasn't all that good and he replaced it. I thought that I could detect a minute amount of end float, but I might be wrong. Next, the intermediate crown wheel was lubricated by me this time by some pretty viscous stuff, but I don't think it is involved with auto wind.

[dogguru]

You may want to check the finish of the barrel bushings and barrel bridge bushings ,they should have a scratch free ,high polish appearance . That said , you should always wait 1-2 hours after manually winding the watch to get an accurate reading of the amplitude . This is SOP as a freshly wound watch can give you artificially high amplitude readings .

[johnbicht]

I never thought of those surfaces. Thanks very much. I seem to be slow applying my decades of similar experience in other mechanical areas. Really slow.

Sorry I am just now getting back to you, I had not clicked the check box to get instant email notice of responses.

What about the reversers. I find that the "first service" paperwork from Rolex shows lubing the little inner upstanding rim of the outer part - anodized part - where the inner piece touches - yet I have been told that I should epilame both parts and lube only the two pivot jewels. Comments?

[Rikki]

Morning the reversers should be epilamed then hp 1000 on the pivots including the drive wheel for ratchet. You also need to check barrel arbor end shake. The grease for the barrel now is tepa a white homogenous grease that is put in a ribbon all along the middle of the barrel wall. To check your axle hold the watch vertical and slowly rotate the watch the oscillating weight should not move but stay at the bottom as you rotate if it hangs up something is causing a drag on the axle clip or scored axle. Rikki

[johnbicht]

Hi Rikki, thanks for the information. Do you really mean that the weight should stay dead still while the movement is rotated, or hitch slightly but return to the bottom?

Is 8201 out of favor now?

Sorry for the late response. I was certain that I should get instant email notification for this thread but it isn't happening.

[Rikki]

A small hitch means something is rubbing where it shouldn't and will only get worse over time. It should be as free to spin as possible. Lubes change all the time and tepa is the new grease for now. Also Microgliss D5 is also not used anymore as it is half synthetic half organic and will go bad. HP 1000 or 1300 are used instead. Rikki

[johnbicht]

Can I further detail this freedom of movement? Weight axle horizontal. Rotating the watch slowly around, the weight will hesitate 2 mm. (at periphery) and then move. This is consistent all the way around. If I swing the weight by moving the watch back and forth gently perhaps 8+ mm. the weight swings perfectly free. Consistent all the way around. No signs of it touching anything, nor can I hear such a thing.

[Rikki]

Sounds like you're good to go. Now test it. Rikki

[johnbicht]

I am in the middle of a test. It still loses a bit of amplitude everyday. From 290, touching 301, down in three days to 275 - 286. Wound 40T at the beginning three days ago, and measured several hours later. Tomorrow will show whether it is becoming consistent day to day. I am wondering whether I move my hand enough. Most of my day is reading print - little movement - to reading and typing on the computer - very little movement.

By the way, I have 0.0/0.1 beat error all around except pendant down which is pretty consistently (presently my favorite word?) 0.3m/s. Sounds to me like a dynamic poise error?

[Rikki]

Right on right on right on but unless you're real anal about it I wouldn't worry will make very little difference in overall timing. Rikki

[johnbicht]

Rikki, I am anal about everything, which is probably why I got back to watches after 54 years, when I got my first watch. I adjusted it by WWV and still check time by the same voice!

But in this case what I would like is to know how to determine which microstella screw is making the error. Can you explain how to do this based on the information that the only time it has the .3 ms error is in the pendant down position. I assume it is one of the screws.

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by johnbicht

Rikki, I am anal about everything, which is probably why I got back to watches after 54 years, when I got my first watch. I adjusted it by WWV and still check time by the same voice!

But in this case what I would like is to know how to determine which microstella screw is making the error. Can you explain how to do this based on the information that the only time it has the .3 ms error is in the pendant down position. I assume it is one of the screws.

This is exactly why I won't go any deeper than replacing crystals, bezels and bracelets...

[Darlinboy]

OT.... Rikki, good to see you back. Hope all is well.

[Rikki]

Yeah starting to feel a bit better still have to have the stent removed next wednesday so the pain isn't over yet. As far as the balance goes screw all microstella screws in towards the balance till they stop them slowly turn all the screws out at regular intervals till timing is reached. Then do your 5 or six position testing and see where you stand if it still has a beat error jump then remove the balance then the hairspring and poise the balance put back together and retime. Good luck Rik

[johnbicht]

Jeez, Rikki I hadn't heard you had a problem. Good luck with it!

Thanks as always for the advice.

[Rikki]

Yeah freaking kidney stone took me out for a week but feeling much better now and slowly getting back to work. Rik

[mikkibarry]

Originally Posted by Rikki

Yeah freaking kidney stone took me out for a week but feeling much better now and slowly getting back to work. Rik

I really hope you're doing well. The world needs to keep its watchmakers healthy :-).

[rmfnla]

Originally Posted by mikkibarry

I really hope you're doing well. The world needs to keep its watchmakers healthy :-).

Amen!