I'm definitely getting a 5522A, Wait a minute I'm not getting a 5522A?!?!?!?!

[RussW]

Originally Posted by jnelson3097

In no ways am I trying to question the worthiness of Mike in regards to the 5522, and if it came off that way, I apologize.

My only issue with this thread is that everyone seems to bash the AD for not treating a "loyal" customer the right way. What i have trouble with is the definition of loyal in regards to a customer. Am I loyal if I bought one watch from you in the last 5 or 6 years? Am I loyal if I come to your events but have never bought anything? It's easy for me to say that I've been a loyal customer to a local AD to my work that I drop by every once in awhile on lunch but the only thing I've ever paid for there is an appraisal for a watch purchased used from a private seller.

I know we can all argue about what we think is right and wrong and that's the joy of the forums. We're all not going to agree with everything posted and I'm sure most won't agree with my opinion on this. I know for a fact that even if I've purchased a dozen watches from an AD, there are several others who have purchased several more and spent thousands more than I have so I'll never have a chance at getting something like a 5522. For those that were able to purchase without a history like thomas, that's great and that AD should be commended.

For full disclaimer, because a simple search would reveal my preferred and only AD, I've been a customer of Govberg for almost 10 years now. I consider the family good friends so everyone can take what I post and think what you want.

I think Mike also thought he was good friends with Govberg before, to put it bluntly, he was s*at on.

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by Watch Admirer

Unfortunate, but they probably have customers they value more than you, don't let it get through your skin.

If they valued someone more they would have told him it wasn’t available. Instead they tried to make a quick buck. The only thing they seem to value here is adding to the bottom line.

[KarlS]

@Justin and yes you perfectly within your rights to support a contrary view. In fact it's always difficult as I know tgat PP will not comment in public forums and sometimes the AD is not able to respond. The point I made and remains is called extortion!!! You can't turn around at the last moment and renege on a verbal contract by trying g to sell some crappy Jewellery. The fact they mention chrono implies that they are trying to align their retail price to what they could get on the grey market!!! Now that's a thought???? I wonder how many they sold to greys!!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by KarlS

@Justin and yes you perfectly within your rights to support a contrary view. In fact it's always difficult as I know tgat PP will not comment in public forums and sometimes the AD is not able to respond. The point I made and remains is called extortion!!! You can't turn around at the last moment and renege on a verbal contract by trying g to sell some crappy Jewellery. The fact they mention chrono implies that they are trying to align their retail price to what they could get on the grey market!!! Now that's a thought???? I wonder how many they sold to greys!!

Probably a few as IMO thats what they are when you mix new sales and BNIB used sales.

Im curious as an official PP AD, how can they sell "pre-owned" PP's double sealed? I would assume their AD status would preclude them from doing this "used" or not. They seem to sell a lot of new watches that are "used".

[martinr]

Another thing I don't get with Govberg is they sell preowned LNIB Patek on their website and the watch is shown sealed and in a brown transport box in some cases. Also, a 5524G for $59000+ LNIB with the new style certificate. Do they open it, put a made up name on the certificate and jack the price from 47,600 which is retail? I would suspect that's the case. I too was a Govberg customer, a good enough one to be invited on a trip to AP three years ago. So I don't want to criticize but........... you get the idea.

[kultschar]

Hmm one would think some are going out the back door, around the block and back in the front door if that’s the case

[KarlS]

Didn't they also proudly giver another TRFer his 5131 recognizing his patronage of many years and then someone pointed out that particular dial had been discontinued!! They obviously went "oh crap it's lying in the safe we better shift it"

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by KarlS

Didn't they also proudly giver another TRFer his 5131 recognizing his patronage of many years and then someone pointed out that particular dial had been discontinued!! They obviously went "oh crap it's lying in the safe we better shift it"

Love to see the thread on this one

[jon_jon]

This thread has brought up some interesting topics like,

1) What does it mean to have a good relationship with your AD?
2) How much do you trust the AD's words?
3) How can one get a LE piece if you have only purchased pre-owned Pateks from the secondary market?
4) If you are young and new to Patek, how do you get one of these watches in demand?

The first question is the most complicated one because AD's vary widely from huge ADs to small local jewelers. If your AD is located in one of the 10 largest cities in the country and/or has more than 2-3 branch locations, more than likely they will have some big customers and most of us here on this forum are small fish.

As for the second question, I think it is with any business relationship. You have a gut feeling as to if you can trust someone and what he/she says. Unfortunately times change and people change too. Their livelihood (and take home pay) may be more important than the relationship they have built over the years.

The third question is the hardest to grapple with for those who buy and sell a lot of watches. We can infer from the SS Daytona thread that it is hard to develop a relationship with an AD and get allocation of hard to find pieces if you have not purchased anything from them.

The new customer that TS speaks about are really those who have explored other Swiss watch brands and are starting to realize what is special with Patek. They are the future customer base that Patek is trying to attract and not those who are new to the world of Swiss watches. They will be introduced to Patek by a friend, a business colleague or a family member and will appreciate the brand and want to get a special piece like the 5522A. I do not feel Patek will alienate this group of people as long as they sense a true interest in the brand and not someone looking to make a quick buck on flip.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Probably a few as IMO thats what they are when you mix new sales and BNIB used sales.

Im curious as an official PP AD, how can they sell "pre-owned" PP's double sealed? I would assume their AD status would preclude them from doing this "used" or not. They seem to sell a lot of new watches that are "used".

Originally Posted by martinr

Another thing I don't get with Govberg is they sell preowned LNIB Patek on their website and the watch is shown sealed and in a brown transport box in some cases. Also, a 5524G for $59000+ LNIB with the new style certificate. Do they open it, put a made up
name on the certificate and jack the price from 47,600 which is retail? I would suspect that's the case. I too was a Govberg customer, a good enough one to be invited on a trip to AP three years ago. So I don't want to criticize but........... you get the idea.

I was going to say the same thing. They have an awful lot of double sealed Pateks for sale, some above msrp lol. Patek must not care because they aren't subtle about it.



With respect to George at Govberg he was kind enough to return my email and give me the honest truth that they were all spoken for. I had only bought one Patek from him so I was expecting that answer and cool with it.

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by martinr

It isn't about loyalty jnelson3097, Mike was lied to and on top of that the AD tried to extort him for a needless and expensive jewelry purchase. That's all there is to it.

This.

[Socal to az]

Originally Posted by GB-man

With respect to George at Govberg he was kind enough to return my email and give me the honest truth that they were all spoken for. I had only bought one Patek from him so I was expecting that answer and cool with it.

What’s his email? I’d be happy to share my thoughts with him re the extortion they tried to pull.

[Calatrava r]

Most ADs I see with nice watch lines do not make a market in used watches. They always tell me the manufactures frown on it. I think it is because they may tend to move the used inventory over the new. Plus selling used watches demeans the whole buying experience of a new watch meant to be kept for generations. In good condition, a used watch with everything can probably fetch almost as much as a new watch in an ADs case side by side with a new one. Who knows what the mark up can be on a used watch. I think its big. To me there is a myriad of issues that could arise where the dealer is also a major reseller of used watches. I would think PP would not want it either. ADs may take a trade-in, but it has always been a deal set up to a third party buyer, in my cases.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Socal to az

What’s his email? I’d be happy to share my thoughts with him re the extortion they tried to pull.

Brian Govberg puts his email address on all the videos he does on youtube.

I am amazed at their attempted extortion, can't believe PP would do anything other than throw the book at them for this behaviour.

[martinr]

From a couple weeks ago.

http://www.hautetime.com/danny-govbe...p-primary-menu

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Most ADs I see with nice watch lines do not make a market in used watches. They always tell me the manufactures frown on it. I think it is because they may tend to move the used inventory over the new. Plus selling used watches demeans the whole buying experience of a new watch meant to be kept for generations. In good condition, a used watch with everything can probably fetch almost as much as a new watch in an ADs case side by side with a new one. Who knows what the mark up can be on a used watch. I think its big. To me there is a myriad of issues that could arise where the dealer is also a major reseller of used watches. I would think PP would not want it either. ADs may take a trade-in, but it has always been a deal set up to a third party buyer, in my cases.

its a conflict of interest no doubt. Whats your incentive to sell new watches to customers when you can just move it out the back the right back in the front and call it used? I would use the term "used" watches loosely though as its a lot of popular models above retail probably never worn.

[walds11]

Originally Posted by martinr

From a couple weeks ago.

http://www.hautetime.com/danny-govbe...p-primary-menu

Yeah, I saw this article. Govbergs is becoming a watch empire!

[brandrea]

Does anyone from Govberg belong to this forum? Maybe they'd like to comment

[remz07twos]

Originally Posted by walds11

Yeah, I saw this article. Govbergs is becoming a watch empire!

Looks like we know why they need the extra 20k in jewelry, need to pay the electric bill.

[tyler1980]

I wonder what the possibility would be of getting the 5522 and buying the extra jewelry and then returning the jewelry the next day for a refund.

return policy: "We stand behind everything we sell. Upon presentation of a sales receipt, we will gladly exchange, return or adjust the purchase price within 7-days from the date of purchase, provided the item has not been worn and is in it’s original package. All sales are final after 7-days."

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I wonder what the possibility of getting the 5522 and buying the extra jewelry and then returning the jewelry the next day for a refund.

Ha - this did cross my mind with this thread!

I guess in UK they wouldn't be able to stop you with consumer laws etc??????

[AK797]

The idea that the 5522 was to bring in new vitality and younger buyers into the fold seems to be backfiring, just seems to have made everything more divisive and cynical. I'm sure we'll see lots of jacked up 5522s flooding Chrono24 right up there next to the sea of D500s.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

The new customer that TS speaks about are really those who have explored other Swiss watch brands and are starting to realize what is special with Patek. They are the future customer base that Patek is trying to attract and not those who are new to the world of Swiss watches. They will be introduced to Patek by a friend, a business colleague or a family member and will appreciate the brand and want to get a special piece like the 5522A. I do not feel Patek will alienate this group of people as long as they sense a true interest in the brand and not someone looking to make a quick buck on flip.

As I've said upthread - it's more than likely that many new customers to the brand will be interested in an Aquanaut or Nautilus. However, basically none are available at dealers, and are not generally available if you don't have an existing relationship with a Patek AD. Then the new customer has to play BS games with the AD to get that watch. I mean, it is possible that the potential customer will go to another Patek model, but more than likely they will just quit in frustration. I know I would, speaking from my experience of trying to get a 5712/1A from an AD - it just isn't going to happen in my country unless I'm a high roller/VIP at those ADs.

TS may have one vision - but the way ADs behave and reserve these pieces only for VIPs make me think otherwise.

[KarlS]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I wonder what the possibility would be of getting the 5522 and buying the extra jewelry and then returning the jewelry the next day for a refund.

return policy: "We stand behind everything we sell. Upon presentation of a sales receipt, we will gladly exchange, return or adjust the purchase price within 7-days from the date of purchase, provided the item has not been worn and is in it’s original package. All sales are final after 7-days."

Damn wish I had thought of that!!

[kultschar]

As a newcomer to PP it makes absolutely no sense to me if Stern is saying one of the purpose's of the 5522 is to attract new / young people to the brand i.e. people with no Patek relationship when its a limited edition.

Its like Rolex saying the 116500 was produced for newcomers.

As a newcomer it was a battle and over a year wait to get a Nautilus and I only managed that thanks to former member Brian from Taipei - I was very lucky

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kultschar

As a newcomer to PP it makes absolutely no sense to me if Stern is saying one of the purpose's of the 5522 is to attract new / young people to the brand i.e. people with no Patek relationship when its a limited edition.

Its like Rolex saying the 116500 was produced for newcomers

i agree and also agree with Tom's comments on trying to get into Patek with difficulty. I faced the same issues. Luckily for me, my AP purchases at the same AD helped get me through for sports models.

In any case the younger generation (of which i belong, sort of) is less patient and less brand loyal than the older generations generally. I think poorly executed attempts at creating new customers in an age demographic younger than the current average PP age demo needs to be done vary carefully as its bound to backfire if not done well.

No one (here anyway) actually thought these watches were actually going to go to brand new PP buyers except maybe the brand new PP buyers who tried and failed.

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by tng11

As I've said upthread - it's more than likely that many new customers to the brand will be interested in an Aquanaut or Nautilus. However, basically none are available at dealers, and are not generally available if you don't have an existing relationship with a Patek AD. Then the new customer has to play BS games with the AD to get that watch

Indeed - if PP really wanted more new / young people as customers all they need to do is pump out more of the above since I imagine thats what the young demographic really wants, however I guess thats the last model they want to improve sales!!

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Indeed - if PP really wanted more new / young people as customers all they need to do is pump out more of the above since I imagine thats what the young demographic really wants, however I guess thats the last model they want to improve sales!!

I don't even think they need to make more watches, just don't target new buyers with a LE. As much as i like the 5522 if it was not a LE and regular production there would not be nearly as much hype around it. Might have to wait, but you would get it.

[HorologyK]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I was going to say the same thing. They have an awful lot of double sealed Pateks for sale, some above msrp lol. Patek must not care because they aren't subtle about it.



With respect to George at Govberg he was kind enough to return my email and give me the honest truth that they were all spoken for. I had only bought one Patek from him so I was expecting that answer and cool with it.

At the speed Patek works, they probably have no idea.

[incontrol]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

having a vested interest makes it hard to be objective. If it was a different AD you may think differently.

No one was bashing the AD based on how many watches it takes to qualify. It was about promising a watch, and then waiting for the secondary prices to be known, and then and only then adding additional conditions to the purchase. If the AD said this up front the OP could have made his choice if he wanted to proceed or not. Making the OP wait until it was too late to find a different AD and then adding conditions is what makes this particularly bad.

No purchase history or a huge purchase history, its still wrong.

Yes, this is the entire point of this thread. Well said!


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