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Old 24 April 2019, 06:13 AM   #1
bobernet
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Living with a manual wind PCC

I have a Langematik PC today, and two of the things I really like are that it’s an automatic, and the mass-adjust pusher that quickly catches up if the watch has wound down for some time.

I’m considering adding a 5970 or 5270 to a 6-7 watch collection. They are all high-end pieces, so the Patek is not going to instantly dominate wrist time. I expect I’ll wear it no more than once/week most of the time.

Those of you with manual PC/PCC, how do you feel about living with it after the new and shiny has worn off?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

P.S. If it makes any difference, I’m also considering a world timer.
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Old 24 April 2019, 06:55 AM   #2
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I have a 3970 for over a year now which is the exact same movement as the 5970.

It's a pleasure to wind and I do so every 1-2 days. Love it. You have to use the pushers if not but using a toothpick works and it's easy to set.
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Old 24 April 2019, 08:47 AM   #3
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I had a Breguet with the same Lemania movement. Beautiful watches. I kept it for awhile then moved it along. Frankly they aren’t the easiest watches to live with. If you already have a few good pieces then it’s hard to rotate. FWIW, Patek makes a really nice Annual Calendar chronograph. Ref 5905 I think. Beautiful platinum case with a vivid blue dial. Half the price of the other options you’re considering.
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Old 24 April 2019, 09:51 AM   #4
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Or preowned 5960 from $30-50K. Platinum gray dial for $45K an insane value.
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Old 24 April 2019, 10:19 AM   #5
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Or preowned 5960 from $30-50K. Platinum gray dial for $45K an insane value.
Oh yeah, don’t let that secret out!
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Old 24 April 2019, 10:34 AM   #6
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Prefer automatic for a PC.
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Old 24 April 2019, 11:07 AM   #7
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Patek PCs are all automatic (at least the modern ones). Patek PCCs are and have always been manual wind. All of Patek chronographs have been manual wind until Patek released an automatic chrono with the 5960 AC chrono approx 12-13 years ago.

Manual wind PCCs goes back in history as far as the 1518 and even some earlier non-numbered versions before that. I believe Patek will continue this tradition with manual wind PCCs. It makes the watch more special that you have to wind it before putting it on the wrist if you have not worn it for a couple of days.
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Old 24 April 2019, 11:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by soundserious View Post
I had a Breguet with the same Lemania movement. Beautiful watches. I kept it for awhile then moved it along. Frankly they aren’t the easiest watches to live with. If you already have a few good pieces then it’s hard to rotate. FWIW, Patek makes a really nice Annual Calendar chronograph. Ref 5905 I think. Beautiful platinum case with a vivid blue dial. Half the price of the other options you’re considering.
I really like the 5905, but wish it was 39mm or 40mm. Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve considered ACC instead of PCC. That might be worth more time reviewing the possibilities.
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Old 24 April 2019, 02:04 PM   #9
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Old 24 April 2019, 03:19 PM   #10
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Patek PCs are all automatic (at least the modern ones). Patek PCCs are and have always been manual wind. All of Patek chronographs have been manual wind until Patek released an automatic chrono with the 5960 AC chrono approx 12-13 years ago.

Manual wind PCCs goes back in history as far as the 1518 and even some earlier non-numbered versions before that. I believe Patek will continue this tradition with manual wind PCCs. It makes the watch more special that you have to wind it before putting it on the wrist if you have not worn it for a couple of days.
Only exception is 5208, but OK it’s a MR as well, so not the same league.
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Old 24 April 2019, 08:43 PM   #11
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I have a 5270 and wear it daily....makes it easier to manage.
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Old 25 April 2019, 01:37 AM   #12
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I have a 5270 and wear it daily....makes it easier to manage.
That’s what’s holding me back a bit. I think they’d be an awesome daily watch with something on a bracelet for weekends or vacation wear. In a rotation, you’re either remembering to wind it every day or two forever, or you’re resetting it nearly every time you want to wear it. Then, would I skip wearing it because I’m in a hurry, and don’t want to go through setting the calendar and moonphase?

The annual calendar chrono in an automatic might be gaining ground...
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Old 25 April 2019, 01:39 AM   #13
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I have a 5270 and wear it daily....makes it easier to manage.
That’s precisely the problem.
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Old 25 April 2019, 02:12 AM   #14
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That’s what’s holding me back a bit. I think they’d be an awesome daily watch with something on a bracelet for weekends or vacation wear. In a rotation, you’re either remembering to wind it every day or two forever, or you’re resetting it nearly every time you want to wear it. Then, would I skip wearing it because I’m in a hurry, and don’t want to go through setting the calendar and moonphase?

The annual calendar chrono in an automatic might be gaining ground...


If you are rotating regularly, then it’s easy to give the 5270 (PCC) 20-30 winds every other day or so. That’s what I do when I am not wearing my 5270.

And at the end of the day, even if it winds down, if you plan to wear it even once or twice a week, you can just wind the watch forward a few days and not have to set it via the actuators. It is worth it, IMHO. Very.
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Old 25 April 2019, 02:19 AM   #15
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If you are rotating regularly, then it’s easy to give the 5270 (PCC) 20-30 winds every other day or so. That’s what I do when I am not wearing my 5270.

And at the end of the day, even if it winds down, if you plan to wear it even once or twice a week, you can just wind the watch forward a few days and not have to set it via the actuators. It is worth it, IMHO. Very.

Thanks, Stephen. That’s helpful perspective.

I’m assuming the modern PC’s don’t have the issue of having to send for service or wait months if you overshoot the date/month/year when setting?
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Old 25 April 2019, 02:27 AM   #16
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Thanks, Stephen. That’s helpful perspective.

I’m assuming the modern PC’s don’t have the issue of having to send for service or wait months if you overshoot the date/month/year when setting?


When you say overshoot, do you mean if it’s set incorrectly? If so, in that case, I would reset it with the actuators.

As an aside, I personally like setting the PCC, whether by winding it or by using the actuators. It offers an opportunity to “bond” with the mechanical nature / romanticism of the watch. I certainly understand there are times when one is in a rush and cannot spend the time, but hopefully life affords us some free time to set them. Otherwise, life is passing us by too fast!!

Last point, even an automatic AC involves setting if you don’t wear it everyday, unless you plan to keep it on a winder. There are 48-68 (or so) hours on both automatic and manual winds before they wind down. Food for thought.
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Old 25 April 2019, 02:35 AM   #17
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As an aside, I personally like setting the PCC, whether by winding it or by using the actuators. It offers an opportunity to “bond” with the mechanical nature / romanticism of the watch. I certainly understand there are times when one is in a rush and cannot spend the time, but hopefully life affords us some free time to set them. Otherwise, life is passing us by too fast!
Well said!
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Old 25 April 2019, 08:52 AM   #18
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I’m assuming the modern PC’s don’t have the issue of having to send for service or wait months if you overshoot the date/month/year when setting?
I believe this particular issue is related to the IWC Kurt Klaus perpetual calendar module (also used by JLC) which always keeps all calendar indicators (including actual year) in sync but as a consequence cannot be set backwards in time. So if you overshoot you have to either take to service or put in the drawer and wait for real time to catch up with the watch.

The traditional perpetual calendar with actuators found in Patek PCs and PCCs should not have this issue as day, month and leap year circle can be cycled through to arrive at any setting you need.
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Old 25 April 2019, 09:03 AM   #19
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I believe this particular issue is related to the IWC Kurt Klaus perpetual calendar module (also used by JLC) which always keeps all calendar indicators (including actual year) in sync but as a consequence cannot be set backwards in time. So if you overshoot you have to either take to service or put in the drawer and wait for real time to catch up with the watch.

The traditional perpetual calendar with actuators found in Patek PCs and PCCs should not have this issue as day, month and leap year circle can be cycled through to arrive at any setting you need.
That was exactly my question, and good news on the response. It was my understanding that some of Patek’s older PC movements had the same issue. Thanks!
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Old 25 April 2019, 09:12 AM   #20
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That was exactly my question, and good news on the response. It was my understanding that some of Patek’s older PC movements had the same issue. Thanks!
No issue that I am aware of. It is based on a 4 year leap year cycle so if you overshoot you can get back.
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Old 25 April 2019, 11:44 AM   #21
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The market used is soft on the newer 5270s for good reason. While splendid watches, they are a pain to wind every day in todays world. They get flipped fairly soon and hence the very soft resale market. A perpetual calendar needs to be automatic, otherwise for a grand complication get a split seconds or minute repeater which can be worn when wanted and not always wound. The PC complication is a thin module which sits on top of the base caliber. If not running regularly, the parts dry out quick. Plus resetting the movements with the pushers is hard on the movement. No win except to wind every day and every day after.
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Old 25 April 2019, 11:52 AM   #22
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Thanks, Stephen. That’s helpful perspective.

I’m assuming the modern PC’s don’t have the issue of having to send for service or wait months if you overshoot the date/month/year when setting?
They cannot be turned backwards. But the 4 year cycle is fairly quick to run through. Takes less than a few minutes if that. Real issue is the wear and tear on the movement doing it. The month and leap year are synced. The old PC and PCC from Patek did not have the external correctors or leap year indicators and could only be set at the factory, unless you turned the day forwards for years. The 3970 and 3940 revolutionized the PC world.
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Old 25 April 2019, 12:30 PM   #23
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Living with a manual wind PCC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calatrava r View Post
The market used is soft on the newer 5270s for good reason. While splendid watches, they are a pain to wind every day in todays world. They get flipped fairly soon and hence the very soft resale market. A perpetual calendar needs to be automatic, otherwise for a grand complication get a split seconds or minute repeater which can be worn when wanted and not always wound. The PC complication is a thin module which sits on top of the base caliber. If not running regularly, the parts dry out quick. Plus resetting the movements with the pushers is hard on the movement. No win except to wind every day and every day after.

Are you trying to talk down the market on the 5270 so you can pick up one on the cheap?? . I jest!

If worn in rotation, it’s not that big of a deal as the 5270 has up to a 65 hour power reserve. So even if not worn for 5 or 6 days, you only have to wind the watch forward a few.
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Old 27 April 2019, 08:07 AM   #24
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Manual wind PCC = headache

For me at least.
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Old 20 August 2022, 06:40 AM   #25
bobernet
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Necro-revival to say that I got over my concerns, and bought a 5270. It only took me 3 years to decide.
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Old 20 August 2022, 09:32 PM   #26
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Necro-revival to say that I got over my concerns, and bought a 5270. It only took me 3 years to decide.
And to ask you own question, how have you found living with the manual wind?
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Old 20 August 2022, 10:37 PM   #27
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I travel all the time and I don’t want to carry a PCC with me very often and therefore these nice watches are not for me. A PC works out very well and if I’m away and don’t take it the Patek winder is where it lives.
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Old 21 August 2022, 02:03 AM   #28
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And to ask you own question, how have you found living with the manual wind?
Ask me again in a few months. It’s too new to have a perspective, since I’ve worn it 3 days in a row.

Setting the moon phase is the most tedious, since it requires knowing or looking up the last full moon, counting the days since, finding the full moon setting, then advancing from there. The rest of the time and date functions are easy and quick to set.
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Old 21 August 2022, 02:12 AM   #29
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Setting the moon phase is the most tedious, since it requires knowing or looking up the last full moon, counting the days since, finding the full moon setting, then advancing from there. The rest of the time and date functions are easy and quick to set.
Pls allow me to share with you a short cut to setting moonphase. Copy this URL to your browser quick access -
https://www.patek.com/en/retail-serv...tings/settings

The date in the link should be showing today's date (you can change it otherwise and then re-calculate), and the moonphase is right there for you to mirror. I always use the stars to set the exact day as the location of the stars are very precise
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Old 21 August 2022, 09:33 PM   #30
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Ask me again in a few months. It’s too new to have a perspective, since I’ve worn it 3 days in a row.

Setting the moon phase is the most tedious, since it requires knowing or looking up the last full moon, counting the days since, finding the full moon setting, then advancing from there. The rest of the time and date functions are easy and quick to set.
Ah ok, didn't realise you've just acquired it, look forward to a update/review in a few months. Thanks
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