My First Vintage Rolex!!!

[JoJo78]

Hello everyone,

New to this forum and was hoping to get a little help on my first vintage Rolex purchased this weekend at a local sale for $3.

It's a little beat-up (scratches, missing crystal & hour-hand), but still runs/works. The case test positive for sterling silver and the caseback is stainless if I'm not mistaken?

My question(s)...

What era is it from and model? I've searched ans searched, but have not been able to find this exact piece.

Also, what would be an guesstimated cost of having it "restored"? --- Crystal, hand, polished, cleaned and serviced?

I thank you all so much for your time and replies.

Thank you!

[Gabe218]

$3 or $300?


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[DevinH]

What a wonderful watch. I would bet you could get it fully restored for around 10-15 usd. Congrats.


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[JoJo78]

Yes, $3 USD is correct...

We purchased a lot of items (old paper and silver coin currency) this Rolex and a couple other older items for a total of $215 USD at the sale. So when divided evenly, all items came to approx $3 USD each.

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by DevinH

What a wonderful watch. I would bet you could get it fully restored for around 10-15 usd. Congrats.


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Thank you!

No. I'm sure the cost would be a bit more than that?

[JoJo78]

@DevinH

You're kidding right?

I'm sure the cost to restore will be a bit more than that ($10 - $15 USD)?

[DevinH]

Originally Posted by JoJo78

@DevinH

You're kidding right?

I'm sure the cost to restore will be a bit more than that ($10 - $15 USD)?

Yes. Yes I am kidding.


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[Base-Z]

Please put that watch somewhere safe, until you have the dial checked-out.
Looks like a Radium dial and hands exposed, without the crystal installed.

[JoJo78]

That's not good, thank you!

So I assume this dates to the 1940s or earlier?

Model?

[GLADIATOR]

Rolex?
I do not think so!
Fake to me
A

[landroverking]

Looks like an old Oyster Watch Co with redone dial

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by landroverking

Looks like an old Oyster Watch Co with redone dial

OYSTER, by Rolex?
Crown does NOT look Rolex, case back is not Rolex.
ROLEX stamping on inside case looks fake?

Movement?

[offrdmania]

Also, movement is not Rolex

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Also, movement is not Rolex

Correct.

Hence my original post
"Rolex?
I do not think so!
Fake to me
A"

And dial is a joke! Never Rolex

[landroverking]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

OYSTER, by Rolex?
Crown does NOT look Rolex, case back is not Rolex.
ROLEX stamping on inside case looks fake?

Movement?

Rolex bought the Oyster Watch Co in the 30s. Most never signed Rolex.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by landroverking

Rolex bought the Oyster Watch Co in the 30s. Most never signed Rolex.

Bought from whom?

Rolex bought the already patented "screw down crown" in 1926, they patented that crown design on 29th July 1926 as "oyster"
It was not a company but a patent for a screw down crown.

I can find no other reference to Rolex registering the name "Oyster Watch Co"

You already asked this as a question in May 2011.
There was no affirmative response to such a company.
Rolex did sell models in Canada that used the "Fontainemelon" NOT FONTMELON) caliber 59.
They had special names like Lipton, Raleigh, Centregraph, AQUA) but NOT Oyster Watch Company.

Here is your original thread
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=177326
Regards
adam

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Also, movement is not Rolex

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies.

I'm a "nobody" when it comes to vintage Rolex watches, movements, etc. but if I'm not mistaken, the images below show the same exact movement, dated to the 1940s and clearly marked/engraved 'Rolex Geneve' at front as oppose to the rear....

[GLADIATOR]

NO disputing that.
A

[JoJo78]

I assume your reply in sarcasm?

So, the movement which appears to be nearly identical to the one housed within the watch I posted is a fake as well?

Not sure if this matters or not, but the former owner of this watch was a military serviceman during WWII. We acquired this watch and some of the contents he collected during the war years such as the old currency. medals, etc.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by JoJo78

I assume your reply in sarcasm?

.

No! Absolutely not.
The opposite, I was giving "KUDOS" for proving the movement was/is Rolex

However nothing short of Wilsdorf, will convince me that dial, crown or case is Rolex original
adam

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

No! Absolutely not.
The opposite, I was giving "KUDOS" for proving the movement was/is Rolex

However nothing short of Wilsdorf, will convince me that dial, crown or case is Rolex original
adam

Thank you!

Now, it's taken me a while to find, but I believe I've found why the case, caseback, crown and dial are quite unusual for Rolex.

I'm not 100% sure as of yet, but it appears my watch was made for the "Canadian Market" from what I've read so far on another site. Below you will see images of a nearly identical crown, case, caseback and interior caseback 'Rolex' mark/stamp on a piece made in 1943 for the Canadian Market...

[JoJo78]

Below is the info I found on another site stating why the cases, crowns and dials are of an unusual style for Rolex:

"To understand this watch fully, we need to give some background information regarding the significance of the Canadian market to Rolex in the 1940s. The majority of Rolex movements during what we now regard as the company’s vintage period were produced in Switzerland by the Jean Aegler concern, in which Rolex held a large financial stake. Rolex had worked out a deal with Aegler that meant that it was the exclusive user of Aegler movements in Britain, Europe and the British Empire countries, but was not able to supply these to the American market. Instead, the USA would be covered by the Gruen company. Hence it is that many of the best Gruen watches sold during this era in the United States contain the identical Aegler movements that are to be found in their Rolex equivalents which were sold elsewhere.

While Rolex couldn’t offer its products in the USA, it could feed the Canadian market and in conjunction with its agent there, a range of watches was created entirely for Canadian sale. These have a distinctive look and as one becomes more experienced as a collector, are quite easy to recognise.

A major factor for this individuality of the Canadian models is that they were not cased in Switzerland. Rolex was no stranger to the concept of casing watches in their country of intended sale and in fact, the vast majority of its models offered in the UK had been fitted with British made cases since the World War I era. This arrangement came about initially because the British government had banned the import of precious metal into the UK in December 1916 in an attempt to reduce public spending at a time of national crisis. In order to avoid losing its lucrative British market, Rolex imported only uncased movements to the UK, these being not subject to any restriction, and then had them housed in domestically manufactured gold and silver cases. When normality was resumed and the import ban lifted, the same casing of Rolex movements in the UK continued simply because it had proved to be so convenient for all concerned. The situation that led to these Canadian models wasn’t quite the same but was certainly similar. The Canadian government had imposed high import taxes on watches brought into the country from Switzerland. By importing movements and housing them in cases made in the USA, this high duty rate was avoided and Rolex could still keep the eventual retail prices of its watches sold in Canada at a reasonable level.

Canadian Rolex models were typically given names that were never used for their European counterparts, often with an upmarket traditional British theme. This one, the Wellington, would be the classic example with which to illustrate this point.

The case on this watch is exceedingly interesting. In common with most of those used on Canadian market Rolex models, it’s a gold capped item with a stainless steel back. It is not an Oyster case, meaning that the winding crown doesn’t screw down against the case side, and was never intended to be waterproof. However, like the Oyster, it does have a screw threaded, rather than snap on, back. Very unusually, the threads on the case body stand proud from the back of the watch and are on the outside, not the inside, of the case. Correspondingly, the case back is threaded internally, not, as we’d find on the Oyster models, on its outer surface. We have seen a handful of Canadian market Rolex cases over the years that were the same as the one here, and each time this curious inversion of the Oyster format threading has caught our eye.

The case back interior is simply signed “Rolex”. This is absolutely correct for this model. No case maker’s marks are present and we don’t know for sure, but looking at this case in detail with an eyeglass as this is written, we can be pretty confident that it was the product of the Keystone Watch Case Co, of Keystone . We have encountered other Canadian market Rolex cases on which the Keystone name was signed and this looks to be a good example of the company’s output."

[JoJo78]

I believe I solved my watch's mystery ???

[michael067]

Makes a good conversation piece. (Or maybe not so good)

[JoJo78]

I don't understand... am I doing something wrong?

All I'm trying to do is figure out the who, what, when, where and hoping for a little assistance.

With all do respect... I know I'm a newbie-novice and don't have as much experience with such watches as you all, but is there anyone here who can actually help?

So far I've received jokes, sarcasm and was told a particular part was a "fake" until proven otherwise. Again, I mean no disrespect whatsoever, just looking for a little help.

I don't know. Maybe I joined the wrong forum? I'll move-on in hopes of finding answers elsewhere or on my own.

Thank you all any way for your time and thanks landroverking (Jay) for your Oyster Watch Company suggestion, most appreciated.

Thank you!

[Kingface66]

No, you haven't done anything wrong. And, you're right. You've gotten some vague answers. And we owe you more than that.

And come on, guys, not everyone posting for the first time will be clued-in on the meanings behind answers with some innuendo attached.

[landroverking]

OP you're okay, nothing wrong.
It's an international site, some don't come a across as they may have intended.
That said some are just not friendly to newcomers as they can't be schooled any more.
Keep posting and keep asking questions.
The mods are great and helpful.

[JoJo78]

Thanks Kingface66 and landroverling.

I *think* I pretty much figured out most of what I wanted to know about this watch.

Definitely a Canadian model made during the late-30s and 1940s in original untouched condition. In Googling "Canadian Rolex" and other keywords, I was able to find a number of comparables with near identical dials, cases, casebacks, crowns and Rolex markings.

My next steps.... have the case and caseback cleaned & polished, replace damaged hour-hand and crystal with new-old-stock or comparable and have the movement serviced.

Hopefully, this won't cost much and in the near future I'll post images once complete.

Thank you both again for your time and kind words.

Thank you!