How do I know if the Stella is for real?

[VintageVagabound]

I tried doing a bit of research but I am still a little uncertain. Is there anyway to determine whether an 1803 originally came with a Stella dial? Other than a close inspection of the dial is there anyway to determine its authenticity? I know they have tons of fake ones but the whole value is based upon being an original. This seems to be a risky proposition without anyway of validating it.

I ask this because I saw one that appears to be going for a reasonable amount but it's all for naught if it's a redial. I realize I need better pics but this is the only one I have for now.

[VintageVagabound]

More detailed pic. Looks like it could be real but I see some spotting or pitting on the dial.

[Richard Carver]

Your pics simply aren't detailed enough to tell about that dial but in general your dial has white day and date wheels which should be champagne as in this example. The lume is very white compared to the creamy appearance of this dial. The lettering is always applied after the enameling and has a raised appearance on real dials. The dial below has coffin shaped markers which is common on Stellas but the square ones were used as well.

One of the hardest things for fakers is the correct appearance of the enamel on the date and day windows as well as the step down on the piepan edge of the dial. The sharpness of the step down can be clearly be seen between the 5 and 8 markers from the way the light hits it on the on the dial below.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Your pics simply aren't detailed enough to tell about that dial but in general your dial has white day and date wheels which should be champagne as in this example. The lume is very white compared to the creamy appearance of this dial. The lettering is always applied after the enameling and has a raised appearance on real dials. The dial below has coffin shaped markers which is common on Stellas but the square ones were used as well.

One of the hardest things for fakers is the correct appearance of the enamel on the date and day windows as well as the step down on the piepan edge of the dial. The sharpness of the step down can be clearly be seen between the 5 and 8 markers from the way the light hits it on the on the dial below.

Great advice! Personally I wouldn’t dare to buy a stella if it wasn’t from a very well reputed dealer or auction house that would stand by it any day. Just too much redone dials which basically look like the real thing. Probably one of the hardest vintage Rolex to buy.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by roh123

Great advice! Personally I wouldn’t dare to buy a stella if it wasn’t from a very well reputed dealer or auction house that would stand by it any day. Just too much redone dials which basically look like the real thing. Probably one of the hardest vintage Rolex to buy.

Of course that's true of any vintage Rolex you are unfamiliar with. I've never owned a sub and when I hear the gibberish (to me!) about Mk dials, exclamation points and inserts I would never dip a toe in that fetid pond without a certified expert in tow! :)

[greekbum]

The simple answer is No there is not unless your an expert or have an expert willing to examine it. They are faking dials to an extremely close to original condition these days. If you really want to know you will have to take the dial out of the watch and take high resolution pics. And then if you really know dials you will come to a conclusion. Of course there are low quality fakes that anybody can tell but the high quality ones are 95% as close to the real.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Of course that's true of any vintage Rolex you are unfamiliar with. I've never owned a sub and when I hear the gibberish (to me!) about Mk dials, exclamation points and inserts I would never dip a toe in that fetid pond without a certified expert in tow! :)

Really big difference when it comes to stellas. There really isn’t any good reference examples which stand out compared to most other models where you can easily find correct ones.

With stellas commanding big premiums it wont become easier. I would only pay premium if I could have it verified coming through a well-known source. I am sure fake dials have been sold by auction houses but then it at least has that verification.

Stellas are beatiful and scary.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by roh123

Really big difference when it comes to stellas. There really isn’t any good reference examples which stand out compared to most other models where you can easily find correct ones.

With stellas commanding big premiums it wont become easier. I would only pay premium if I could have it verified coming through a well-known source. I am sure fake dials have been sold by auction houses but then it at least has that verification.

Stellas are beatiful and scary.

LOL! Exactly how I feel about that Mk 92 dial sub with a bleached exclamation point and an oiled tropic dial! The point remains; if you're unsure, get an expert!

[roh123]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL! Exactly how I feel about that Mk 92 dial sub with a bleached exclamation point and an oiled tropic dial! The point remains; if you're unsure, get an expert!

[VintageVagabound]

Originally Posted by roh123

Really big difference when it comes to stellas. There really isn’t any good reference examples which stand out compared to most other models where you can easily find correct ones.

With stellas commanding big premiums it wont become easier. I would only pay premium if I could have it verified coming through a well-known source. I am sure fake dials have been sold by auction houses but then it at least has that verification.

Stellas are beatiful and scary.

True. I read on an earlier post that RSC wouldn't work on re-dialed or altered dial watches. We would have to assume that they could tell the difference themselves (not that I would send an actual Stella dial to RSC). In the case of this particular watch I am looking at they are basically selling it for the going rate of an all gold 1803 so it wouldn't be a huge hit if the dial wasn't real. It seems that they are making no attempt to advertise it as a Stella dial...just as a vintage 1803. It's too bad that Rolex didn't maintain a serial number database of watches that were issued with these. This is a little similar to the way I feel about vintage Tudor snowflakes. I would like to have one but I think at least 70% of the ones in the past 4 years are redialed or have replacement hands (or worse).

[lupus66]

of course they have a database.

[VintageVagabound]

Originally Posted by lupus66

of course they have a database.

If there was a database that identified which specific 1803's came with Stella dials then there would be no issue. If you know how to access such a database please let me know.

For what it's worth I checked out the 1803 in question. The dealer acknowledged that he has no way of determining whether the dial is original but feels 90% confident that it is. It is a middle-east origin watch that he bought from an older man who had it since the 70's. He said he remembers when customers would come in during the late 80's and 90's and ask for the dials to be swapped out since the enameled dials were too seventies looking and they wanted a more modern looking watch. I don't think I'll buy it because I am pretty watch heavy at the moment but it is a nice looking watch.

[J. W. Hall]

Sure is beautiful.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

LOL! Exactly how I feel about that Mk 92 dial sub with a bleached exclamation point and an oiled tropic dial! The point remains; if you're unsure, get an expert!

Thank you Richard!!! There are many more shenanigans going on with these models than one realizes.

[VintageVagabound]

I was looking at my old post and kind of wondered how we left off on this? If you sent a watch into a RSC and they serviced it (versus rejecting) is that some sort of validation? Looking back at the pics of the one I looked at it seems likely to me that it is an original dial. It appeared to be pretty old so if it was a redone or fake dial it looked it was done 30 years ago.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by VintageVagabound

I was looking at my old post and kind of wondered how we left off on this? If you sent a watch into a RSC and they serviced it (versus rejecting) is that some sort of validation? Looking back at the pics of the one I looked at it seems likely to me that it is an original dial. It appeared to be pretty old so if it was a redone or fake dial it looked it was done 30 years ago.

They wouldn’t be able to tell for sure either.

[MonBK]

^