Evolution of the Ceramic GMT: A Lesson in Denying the Customer

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

I'm a Pep-C fan, have been since 2014. I just wonder now that it's in steel, if the colors will be more palatable for the "masses".

I doubt it. $10k+ is still a lot of money for something that doesn't sing.

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[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

You left off the most important part: "...but none of that matters, as long as Rolex pleases me of all the time."

I've never felt that way about Rolex or any other watch company. I guess that's why I don't understand all the hand wringing.

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[Hogtown Fatty]

This isn't exclusive to watches, it happens in countless other arenas as well, the most familiar to me being guitars, so let me speak on the similarities for a moment as they're identical.

In the world of guitars the 1959 Les Paul Standard "Burst" is the holy grail. Back then they sold for about $250 + $40 for the case. "Bursts" were only produced for three years, from '58-'60, and only about 1600 total were ever made. The '59's in specific are the holy grail because they possess most desirable attributes (i.e. they had the most traditionally pretty curly maple tops and had the most desirable neck profile (not as thick as '58, not as slim as '60), as well as a few other things), but mostly the value soared to what it is today because many rock & roll giants of the era played them, from Clapton to Keith Richards to Peter Green to Jimmy Page and so on. They seemed to be the weapon of choice for these larger-than-life names. People slowly started catching on and the concept of 'vintage guitars' was at the earliest introduced in the late 60's/early 70's, where an enlightened few started chasing these older models due to their seemingly superior build techniques. It's worth noting Gibson was bought out in '65 and many changes happened (for the worse).

Anyways, they slowly started appreciate in value and sometime I'm guessing in the 80's or early 90's demand for a reissue prompted the creation of the Gibson Art & Historic custom shop department. They were tasked with recreating the famed guitars. But here's the thing... they haven't been able to recreate them since 1959 and many people believe it's on purpose because each and every year another iteration is released claiming to be truer to the original specs, using hide glue, nitrocellulose, this and that, etc. Every year one little detail is added to bring it closer to original specs, but they've never given the full package so as to keep buyers on edge, hoping it'll one day come. I see a lot of similarities to Rolex because Rolex could easily give the customers exactly what they want, but don't because they're following the same method which is proven to sell large numbers.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I've never felt that way about Rolex or any other watch company. I guess that's why I don't understand all the hand wringing.

I was saying it ironically, since it does seem like some people might actually feel that way. I'm certainly interested to see what various watch brands bring out, and the guessing game is a fun intellectual exercise. But in the end, it doesn't matter that much to me. I already have what was my grail Rolex, so the rest is gravy. Heck, today I strapped on a 12-year-old Panerai I just acquired - a model that was discontinued nine years ago - and damn if I didn't find it far more interesting than anything I saw previewed yesterday. That could just be because it was on my wrist, and not a digital rendering or an Instagram photo, but even so. It's a good reminder that no one brand is all of watchdom, and watch enthusiasm can be found in any number of places.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I was saying it ironically, since it does seem like some people might actually feel that way. I'm certainly interested to see what various watch brands bring out, and the guessing game is a fun intellectual exercise. But in the end, it doesn't matter that much to me. I already have what was my grail Rolex, so the rest is gravy. Heck, today I strapped on a 12-year-old Panerai I just acquired - a model that was discontinued nine years ago - and damn if I didn't find it far more interesting than anything I saw previewed yesterday. It's a good reminder that no one brand is all of watchdom, and watch enthusiasm can be found in any number of places.

I know you were kidding. I answered as though you were serious, because so many are serious.

I forgot to use the appropriate emoticon.

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[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I know you were kidding. I answered as though you were serious, because so many are serious.

I forgot to use the appropriate emoticon.

I figured you got the joke. I just used it as an excuse to get philosophical for a minute.

[codecow]

I don’t know about that. I have 3 Rolex GMTs and this is exactly what I wanted, wouldn’t change a thing.

[KeithP]

I'm still stuck on the idea that the OP knows what "the masses" want.

Anyhow, I love it. Loved the original WG version too. I love the shades of red & blue. To my eye they're richer than the shades of the alu bezels and suit the ceramic perfectly. They also ape the shades of the original bakelite bezels.

I'm a Jubilee fan and would choose it even if it were offered alongside PCL and even non-PCL oysters. I think its a home run. And I suspect more options will roll out down the road.

And all that said, I can imagine being a bit irked if I had the WG version.



PS Strangely enough, I may still prefer the BLNR. Its more intuitive to me to have night represented by black, and day by blue.

[Rolexavidfan]

Professionals as in airline pilot wear suit-like attire on board. The Pepsi GMT in Jubilee fits perfectly to it. Moreover, even with PCL on the Jubilee, it is hardly revealing of scratches on the center link. I think Rolex did think this through in introducing the Pepsi GMT.


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[asudarno]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

[Quailhunter]

I think the statement implying “the masses want” a particular watch configuration isn’t consistent with the real world.

I would contend that a tiny percent of a tiny percent give a flip what watch Rolex makes. The “masses” wouldn’t recognize a Rolex from a Timex.

My guess is that Rolex does some market research and then decides what would be a profitable watch to add to the product mix.

[904VT]

People say they “don’t” want this. We’ll see if they stick to what they say or just banter

[904VT]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I doubt it. $10k+ is still a lot of money for something that doesn't sing.

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I wouldn’t doubt at all, bc it seems they always find a way to sell. The Daytona C is also the same Daytona people lined up for the 15 years or so prior and they’re still doing it all for a ceramic bezel addition. People line up for the BLNR while you could argue that black and blue should never be mixed on a watch (I like it btw). You can say the LV reminds of St Patty’s Day and all green, but people will drop $10k in a heartbeat on it. Another that I like btw so nothing against those watches, just that we should assume the masses wouldn’t like, but they do in a lot of cases. Maxi Sub as well.
We’re never going to have normal demand again

[AaronRolex]

Spot on

Originally Posted by no subctitute

i want to love the new pepsi gmt. But i just don't. The colors aren't right and the jubilee bracelet isn't working for me (i know some like it). It seems rolex likes to make watches that leave us wanting for something slightly different, something more. That way, we'll buy now, but then we'll still buy something else in the future to scratch an itch. Brilliant.

In 2007, when the ceramic gmt came out in stainless steel with a black bezel, wiss started calling for a coke or pepsi in stainless steel.

So, in 2013, rolex obliged---by giving us a two-color bezel. Just not a pepsi or coke. Don't get me wrong. The blnr is a looker, its a seller. But it left many still wanting a pepsi or coke.

Then in 2014, rolex gave us a pepsi. But it was in white gold and the bezel colors received a lukewarm reception. However, some of us ponied up the big bucks for a precious metal watch when all we really wanted was a stainless steel pepsi or coke.

Now, in 2018, some will buy the new stainless steel pepsi on a jubilee even if its not their choice bracelet and even if the bezel color isn't quite right. No oyster bracelet for the faithful. And to rub it in our faces, rolex slightly changed the case so that you cannot put a stainless steel oyster on the new pepsi. Wow, rolex went out of their way to prevent us from making the watch we want.

So, here we are, more than ten years after the latest generation stainless steel ceramic gmt was introduced. And, after seeing the release of three two-color ceramic bezel watches, none of them are what the masses wants. Rolex, give us a freaking pepsi or coke in stainless steel on an oyster bracelet. Ten years wait is long enough.

[SteelSubmarinerGuy]

It’s the Grandpa Pepsi!


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[watchwatcher]

Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott

I doubt it. $10k+ is still a lot of money for something that doesn't sing.

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You mistake my meaning, Grady. I was saying now that it's in steel, I think it will be singing for a lot more people than it was in gold.

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by WJGESQ

Nope. It was a place holder at best. Coke and Pepsi is what history demands.

You sure about that ???
Cause it doesn’t really seem to appear that
way in day to day reality as of now !!!
Maybe once upon a time pre BLNR !!!

[roadster198]

Originally Posted by Etschell

wait until they do this with the smurf in ss. people will be upset.

Why upset. If u can afford a £28k watch it’s most likely you can buy when u feel like it. Your WG SMURF won’t suddenly turn into rolesor overnight.

[Fedpete]

Originally Posted by BobDyl

I do find it odd that Rolex has styled itself such a luxury brand that they no longer feel the need or urge to offer the consumer much choice. They are playing an annoying scarcity game and I hope it comes back to bite them in the @$$.

These watches are not low quantity, hand made, hand finished works of horological art. They are mass produced, highly engineered, top quality consumer goods. And, as fun as it is to discuss their future collectibility and value, there's likely nothing modern from Rolex that will be truly collectible in the same way that certain vintage models have become. Rolex is a totally different company today, producing hundreds of thousands of pieces a year, with tons of savvy buyers for even the most "limited" pieces like the Daytona.

I don't mind the high prices, I think the products are generally worth it. What other product can you buy that will probably outlive you? But I'd just like to walk into an AD, have some choice, and buy a friggin watch. "A GMT sir, surely, what bezel would you like, black, pepsi, coke, or rootbeer? What metal? What bracelet? Here you are, sir."

This nonsense of treating Rolex like it's Patek selling small batches of hand made grand complications is seriously misguided.

Amen.

[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

You mistake my meaning, Grady. I was saying now that it's in steel, I think it will be singing for a lot more people than it was in gold.

Yes, I do understand that, but I asked myself the question, does the bezel look better at a third the price?

I don't think it does and I wouldn't be happy with it, unless it looks better in normal light under ever-changing conditions.

It is true that there are no photographs that accurately depict the experience of wearing a BLNR.

We have been assured by owners of the WGBLRO, though, many times that with that bezel, what you see in pictures is what you get.

Last night I didn't feel like typing out all that, so you got the short answer.

I don't think people will change their minds about the bezel based on price.

This is not to say it will not sell like hot cakes.

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[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I wouldn’t doubt at all, bc it seems they always find a way to sell. The Daytona C is also the same Daytona people lined up for the 15 years or so prior and they’re still doing it all for a ceramic bezel addition. People line up for the BLNR while you could argue that black and blue should never be mixed on a watch (I like it btw). You can say the LV reminds of St Patty’s Day and all green, but people will drop $10k in a heartbeat on it. Another that I like btw so nothing against those watches, just that we should assume the masses wouldn’t like, but they do in a lot of cases. Maxi Sub as well.
We’re never going to have normal demand again

The watch will sell. I have no doubt of that, but the price will not make the bezel colors look better.

They could grow on people the way the BLNR grew on me and actually still grows on me.

You'll know that I was wrong when I post an SSBLNR. :TWIT:

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[GradyPhilpott]

Originally Posted by SteelSubmarinerGuy

It’s the Grandpa Pepsi!


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I'm tired of this assertion that the Jubilee is not for the young.

It's for those with refined tastes, which for some takes some years to develop.

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[c41006]

Originally Posted by SteelSubmarinerGuy

It’s the Grandpa Pepsi!


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Why is it the grandpa Pepsi?

[TimingsEverything]

I'm not a fan of the Jubilee bracelet either, even though it's historically accurate if the intent was to offer an updated GMT Pepsi as it was released back in 1955. It's no doubt a better watch with the new movement and Cerachrom bezel, but I wish they would have offered one with an Oyster bracelet.

[SteelSubmarinerGuy]

Originally Posted by c41006

Why is it the grandpa Pepsi?

The Jubilee bracelet makes it the grandpa Pepsi


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[c41006]

Originally Posted by SteelSubmarinerGuy

The Jubilee bracelet makes it the grandpa Pepsi


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I don’t get it

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by c41006

I don’t get it

He's saying only old men like it. I don't agree with him, but that is clearly what he is implying.

[kaien]

Originally Posted by mrporter

Rolex works like Apple I believe. Small updates, people complain, yet they still have followings willing to buy and pay for the products.

This is exactly what came to my mind.

I'm a relative newbie in this universe, but it's pretty clear that there's always that oooonnnnee thing that would've made the "perfect" watch.

Then, they add it to the new model, but take something away at the same time.

[RHIII]

Usually if I don’t like something I just don’t buy it. But I can only speak for myself....


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[Mousehunter]

At this point, I like the GMT on a Jubalee as it differentiates it from the common SubC. That said, I have no clue how it will look on my wrist. I tried on the SDDS in both faces, and the SD4K. I really wanted to like the SDDS, but it did nothing for me. I had no expectation the SD43 would sing to me, but it did.

This GMT will work better with a collection that includes a SD and a Sub.