GMTIIc Clasp Buckle issue - common?

[Auragentum]

So yesterday I went to my AD to adjust the bracelet on my GMTIIc. No big deal, just removed one link on the 12 o'clock side and moved the easy link to the middle position.

But when the watchmaker returned the watch to me I immediately noticed that the clasp buckle (the springy part which snaps in place) had come undone. I don't wear my GMT that often, but I have never experienced this before. The watchmaker just snapped it back in place and off I went.

Today I fiddled around with the watch and took it off and put it on a couple of time and suddenly I noticed that it had come undone again. I can snap it back in place, but obviously I don't think this is acceptable.

So I'd like to hear from other GMTIIc owners or those with the newer clasps... Is this common? If so, what is the fix?

[nch209]

Yea, that should not just pop open like that... I wonder if the person was messing with the spring bar there or somthing? I had one apart years ago to see how it worked, but never had an issue with them, and I have had several come and go. I would ensure the springbar is seated correct, and not damaged or broken.

The bottom line is if the clasp is assembled properly and that springbar is OK, I dont see how that part could pop out???? I am betting the person you were dealing with was messing with it for some reason...

-n8

[BH13GMT]

My rolex clip popped off once, luckily I was at home. This was caused by the locator screw hidden by the clasp had come undone by 1mm. This was pushing the clip width out and causing it to pop off. Ater tightening the screw I have had no issues.

[nch209]

As for the fix, I say remove the single springbar in the clasp, lift up gently so you can push the springy clip thing back towards the clasp and under the part that the springbar is attached to, and then re-seat the spring bars.

(ITS WAY LATE< HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE!!!!! If your near Northern VA, I am happy to look at it for ya....

[Auragentum]

The watchmaker would have no reason to mess with the spring bar next to the buckle at all. As mentioned, he only relocated the easy link and removed one link on the 12 o'clock.

As for the locator screw I do not think it has any relevance to my case, as the new clasp works differently.

But thanks for comments anyways.

[acce1999]

Not good, IMO. There seems to be a lot of small tolerances in the new clasps... and I am yet to be convinced that they offer better longevity and functionality than the older clasps... By all means, the feeling and percieved quality is impressive.

Best,

A

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by nch209

As for the fix, I say remove the single springbar in the clasp, lift up gently so you can push the springy clip thing back towards the clasp and under the part that the springbar is attached to, and then re-seat the spring bars.

(ITS WAY LATE< HOPE THAT MAKES SENSE!!!!! If your near Northern VA, I am happy to look at it for ya....

Thanks, but I can push the springy clip back towards/under the clasp without messing with the spring bar. I just need to apply a bit of pressure and pull the clip away from the clasp and then slide it under the clasp, so it snaps in place.

The spring bar simply seems to hold the "wall" and attached arm that holds and supports the springy clip. The issue seems to be that the tolerances are very small like acce1999 mentioned, and that there is not a lot of metal on the clip that goes underneath the clasp. Hence the risk of the clip coming undone.

I am actually not too worried about it once it has snapped in place and the clasp is locked as there will be tension on the clip creating a firmer connection under the clasp. It seems to be an issue with when the clasp is not locked and the clip is not under tension (spring plates not applied) due to the low tolerances.

Anyone else with the NEW style clasp who has experienced this or know what I mean?

[nch209]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

The watchmaker would have no reason to mess with the spring bar next to the buckle at all. As mentioned, he only relocated the easy link and removed one link on the 12 o'clock.

As for the locator screw I do not think it has any relevance to my case, as the new clasp works differently.

But thanks for comments anyways.

No reason- I agree... but I think he did! That, or your spring bar is loose/broken. If it is in there properly, I can not see how the heck the springy clip thing was moved...

Just my opinion!

[nch209]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

Thanks, but I can push the springy clip back towards/under the clasp without messing with the spring bar. I just need to apply a bit of pressure and pull the clip away from the clasp and then slide it under the clasp, so it snaps in place.

The spring bar simply seems to hold the "wall" and attached arm that holds and supports the springy clip.

Interesting, perhaps I am off base then. I have a SS subc on now that is the same setup on that end, and I can not budge it. Maybe you have more of an issue...

Best of luck!

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by nch209

Interesting, perhaps I am off base then. I have a SS subc on now that is the same setup on that end, and I can not budge it. Maybe you have more of an issue...

Best of luck!

Thanks for the info. Could I ask you to open up your clasp and wiggle the clip towards the outside (away from the center) and tell me what the arm/wall with the springbar does?

Does it wiggle/give a little bit or is it completely firm? If you look at the 3rd picture... with the clip properly seated as it is on yours, if you put a little pressure on the clip downwards, does the wall/arm move at all?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by acce1999

Not good, IMO. There seems to be a lot of small tolerances in the new clasps... and I am yet to be convinced that they offer better longevity and functionality than the older clasps... By all means, the feeling and percieved quality is impressive.

Best,

A

X2 Most times the simple design works best although the newer clasps are perceived better. Perhaps they are over complicated engineering with quite a few reports of clasp just popping open.

[nch209]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

Thanks for the info. Could I ask you to open up your clasp and wiggle the clip towards the outside (away from the center) and tell me what the arm/wall with the springbar does?

Does it wiggle/give a little bit or is it completely firm? If you look at the 3rd picture... with the clip properly seated as it is on yours, if you put a little pressure on the clip downwards, does the wall/arm move at all?

I think I am following what your asking... the arm moves ever so slightly (just as much as allowed by it slightly twisting where the spring bar is.

Such slight movement will not allow you to pull out the part that should be spring loaded and is out of place on yours. I may be off base, but I say someone messed with that springbar or the bar is broken.

[nch209]

Originally Posted by padi56

X2 Most times the simple design works best although the newer clasps are perceived better. Perhaps they are over complicated engineering with quite a few reports of clasp just popping open.

Are there actually reports of this, Padi? What parts are being broken or wearing to allow the above to happen? I need to do some digging into this!!!

[caryyee]

Hmmm, that's interesting, I'm yet to encounter that with my GMTII-c, I'll a close eye on it ...

[nch209]

I should have already asked, but do you have a spring bar tool? If so, simply put the part back in place to its spring loaded properly and give it a tug to see if you can make it slip/pop out. I am betting that you can't.... and HOPING that you can't and this was just a freak thing or somthing!

Keep us posted... I am very curious! Almost bed time!

[Auragentum]

UPDATE: Just fixed the issue. It turns out nch209 was right about the spring bar. It had not snapped in place on one of the sides. Just put it back in place and the issue is gone with no wiggle on the wall/arm and the clip is now more firm as well.

Thanks Nathan for putting me on the right track!

Must say I am disappointed with the watchmaker. This particular AD is the biggest and most reputable Rolex watchmaker and dealer within 3 smaller countries and yet they have messed up on two recent occassions.

First, when I asked them to replace three screws (long story), one of them was the wrong spec - the end and top was slightly curved instead of flat.

And in this case they undid the springbar that holds the locking clip - even if they did not need to touch it at all.

I am becoming more and more inclined to do things myself. It seems it is just like with my cars. I do most of the work myself as I then know it is done properly... I.e. lots of workshops don't have the time or patience to properly clean or torque things.

Thanks again guys.

[nch209]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

UPDATE: Just fixed the issue. It turns out nch209 was right about the spring bar. It had not snapped in place on one of the sides. Just put it back in place and the issue is gone with no wiggle on the wall/arm and the clip is now more firm as well.

Thanks Nathan for putting me on the right track!

Must say I am disappointed with the watchmaker. This particular AD is the biggest and most reputable Rolex watchmaker and dealer within 3 smaller countries and yet they have messed up on two recent occassions.

First, when I asked them to replace three screws (long story), one of them was the wrong spec - the end and top was slightly curved instead of flat.

And in this case they undid the springbar that holds the locking clip - even if they did not need to touch it at all.

I am becoming more and more inclined to do things myself. It seems it is just like with my cars. I do most of the work myself as I then know it is done properly... I.e. lots of workshops don't have the time or patience to properly clean or torque things.

Thanks again guys.

Phewwwww... glad to hear that is all it was! I have had great luck with these, and have updated most of my collection to the new style braclets/clasps and even have some more extras on hand.... so needless to say I like the complex design and feel they will last a long time.

Lucky for you it didnt drop out the whole way and render your watch lost or broken... or should I say, LUCKY FOR THE DEALER!!! LOL!!!

All the best,
-n8

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by nch209

Phewwwww... glad to hear that is all it was! I have had great luck with these, and have updated most of my collection to the new style braclets/clasps and even have some more extras on hand.... so needless to say I like the complex design and feel they will last a long time.

All the best,
-n8

Yes I am relieved as well! Can't blame the design when it is the watchmaker messing up.

Come to think of it I think this springbar unloading may have been the work of another Rolex AD and only yesterday did the issue arise as I have hardly been using the watch. Either way, two ADs with so-called highly trained and certified Rolex watchmakers have managed to mess up the simplest of jobs. Not exactly encouraging when thinking these are the same guys doing full service...

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

UPDATE: Just fixed the issue. It turns out nch209 was right about the spring bar. It had not snapped in place on one of the sides. Just put it back in place and the issue is gone with no wiggle on the wall/arm and the clip is now more firm as well.

Thanks Nathan for putting me on the right track!

Must say I am disappointed with the watchmaker. This particular AD is the biggest and most reputable Rolex watchmaker and dealer within 3 smaller countries and yet they have messed up on two recent occassions.

First, when I asked them to replace three screws (long story), one of them was the wrong spec - the end and top was slightly curved instead of flat.

And in this case they undid the springbar that holds the locking clip - even if they did not need to touch it at all.

I am becoming more and more inclined to do things myself. It seems it is just like with my cars. I do most of the work myself as I then know it is done properly... I.e. lots of workshops don't have the time or patience to properly clean or torque things.

Thanks again guys.

Good news! And a great TRF effort from Nathan here.

[w4rmk]

Unfortunately many ADs hire sales people who really don't know much (if anything) about watches, so you are handing your Rolex to someone who knows less about them than you. Of course this isn't the case when going to a "watchmaker" who works on Rolex every day, some ADs employ them and it seems that most don't. They are just showrooms that hire people who are good at sales.

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by w4rmk

Unfortunately many ADs hire sales people who really don't know much (if anything) about watches, so you are handing your Rolex to someone who knows less about them than you. Of course this isn't the case when going to a "watchmaker" who works on Rolex every day, some ADs employ them and it seems that most don't. They are just showrooms that hire people who are good at sales.

I hear what you are saying but that was not the case here. I have been to a fair share of ADs in the US and China were the sales reps would have been fired on the spot, if I was managing the business, so I think I know what you mean.

But actually the sales guys at my preferred AD are incredibly knowledgeable and the guys I stick with know more than most members of this forum. They are also pretty skilled and careful when it comes to watch adjustments. The guy my family and I have bought from owns more than 10 Rolex (plus some Omegas, Panerais and so on) and has worked with the brand for more than 20 years. Apart from Rolex they carry AP and VC amongst their high end brands.

Even so, I did not hand in my watch to a sales rep. We are talking about certified Rolex watchmakers working at the Rolex AD(s) I go to. I let the watchmaker do the adjustment and I was standing 6 feet away from him the whole time. Their workshop has completely transparent walls so you can see what is going on.

The AD who made the mistake with the wrong screw has 6 trained and educated watchmakers, who also go to Switzerland for training at Rolex, Omega and even AP. They are the biggest, most reputable AD/workshop in the country, including the neighboring countries. They have all the specialist and expensive equipment which many normal ADs do not - i.e. they have the necessary tools/skills to polish the matt part of my platinum Yachtmaster bezel.

Hence, I find it incredible that they can make crude mistakes like this - with such a blatant lack of attention to detail. That is the core job of a watchmaker for crying out loud But just goes to show that with or without education, the person doing the job is more important than the certificate he/she holds.

At the other AD where I am now pretty sure my springbar was undone by mistake, it was also done by one of their certified Rolex watchmakers. Not that it makes a difference, but at least that's a small mom and pop shop AD with much smaller budget - so I would be less surprised when they screw up

Hopefully I have just been incredibly unlucky and so far it has only been my GMTIIc which has been subject to this. It seems like it is cursed Thankfully it is only small things, so thus far no harm.

[Puffy]

seen that lots of times

too many moving parts to give a great fit is a recipe for a disaster if you're not looking after it / overusing it

looks like the AD loved playing with the clasp!

[JohnnyS.]

Originally Posted by acce1999

Not good, IMO. There seems to be a lot of small tolerances in the new clasps... and I am yet to be convinced that they offer better longevity and functionality than the older clasps... By all means, the feeling and percieved quality is impressive.
Best,
A

Originally Posted by padi56

X2 Most times the simple design works best although the newer clasps are perceived better. Perhaps they are over complicated engineering with quite a few reports of clasp just popping open.

I'm glad more established posters like you two wrote this before I did

The buckle on my 30 year old 16013 still works flawlessly, and has never given me an issue in the years that I've owned it since buying from the original owner. But these new clasps, although look fantastic, also look like they will not hold up for 30 years.

The more moving parts there are, the easier it is for something to fail.

[tkerrmd]

Ok glad someone else posted this. I had the same thing happen to my new YG sub bracelet.
First local AD watchmaker " tightened" the spring bar. Still easily popped open. Sent to Rolex NYC and when returned same thing! mayors and Rolex said oh we'll too bad new clasp is 5500.00 and you ain't getting one!
Took to another AD and he said he would make sure the clasp was replaced this IS a defect in worksmanship. It is currently at RSC in Houston

I do not think it is a spring bar tension problem. It is defective and the clasp should be replaced IMO.

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by JohnnyS.

I'm glad more established posters like you two wrote this before I did

The buckle on my 30 year old 16013 still works flawlessly, and has never given me an issue in the years that I've owned it since buying from the original owner. But these new clasps, although look fantastic, also look like they will not hold up for 30 years.

The more moving parts there are, the easier it is for something to fail.

I agree with the last sentence. But let's not get carried away here with the old vs new debate. I realize there have been reported issues with the new style clasps, but in this case I don't think it is right to bring this into the statistics. If the spring bar of the old clasp came undone it would also cause an issue.

As mentioned, one can't fault design or engineering if the issue is due to a person not being diligent when putting things back together.

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by tkerrmd

Ok glad someone else posted this. I had the same thing happen to my new YG sub bracelet.
First local AD watchmaker " tightened" the spring bar. Still easily popped open. Sent to Rolex NYC and when returned same thing! mayors and Rolex said oh we'll too bad new clasp is 5500.00 and you ain't getting one!
Took to another AD and he said he would make sure the clasp was replaced this IS a defect in worksmanship. It is currently at RSC in Houston

I do not think it is a spring bar tension problem. It is defective and the clasp should be replaced IMO.

Thanks for giving us your experiences.

In my case, it seems to be a simple matter of the watchmaker not ensuring that the spring bar had attached it itself on both sides. Now that I clicked the other side into place, nothing comes undone even when I apply a good amount of pressure and wiggle to the clip or the springbar wall/arm.

Hope things work out for you though. Out of curiousity, which year is your Sub?

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by Auragentum

I agree with the last sentence. But let's not get carried away here with the old vs new debate. I realize there have been reported issues with the new style clasps, but in this case I don't think it is right to bring this into the statistics. If the spring bar of the old clasp came undone it would also cause an issue.

As mentioned, one can't fault design or engineering if the issue is due to a person not being diligent when putting things back together.

True. Time will tell. Interesting thread!

Best,

A

[acce1999]

Originally Posted by tkerrmd

Ok glad someone else posted this. I had the same thing happen to my new YG sub bracelet.
First local AD watchmaker " tightened" the spring bar. Still easily popped open. Sent to Rolex NYC and when returned same thing! mayors and Rolex said oh we'll too bad new clasp is 5500.00 and you ain't getting one!
Took to another AD and he said he would make sure the clasp was replaced this IS a defect in worksmanship. It is currently at RSC in Houston

I do not think it is a spring bar tension problem. It is defective and the clasp should be replaced IMO.

Ouch! Pls let us know about the outcome!

Good luck!

Best,

A

[Auragentum]

Originally Posted by acce1999

True. Time will tell. Interesting thread!

Best,

A

Yes, time will tell.

Btw, it reminded me to put in a short signature list of my most used watches. As you can see the majority of my Rolexes have the old style clasp and I am perfectly happy with those as well