Rolex 16710 with 3186 Movement. Yes or No.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Alpino

You shoud (re)read the title of this post ...

Perfectly aware of the title; Mr. title/content police officer.

[busytimmy]

Originally Posted by subtona

No

+1

But I understand there are many ways to enjoy the 'watch' hobby.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

The one going for 20k has been listed here for about six weeks, and I imagine it will be here for a very long time at that price.

There's a Zenith Daytona for sale for $20,000 as well. I guess Zenith Daytona's are worth 20K now.

It's a watch, not an investment. For the record, my crappy unpolished mint 16710 with the old movement has easily doubled in value since I bought it - back before a lot of people talking nonsense were even into watches.

[Jason71]

I wouldn't pay a penny more for a 16710 with a 3186

[Gaijin]

Nor would I. But some will. The one at the grey near my house lasted days. I think it was like $ 16,500 +.


Link to thread with pics of that GMT with 3186.


http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=435220

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Only RSC can match the movement and case serials.

And that website you linked to seems to specialise in hyperbole.

Exactomundo, plus I saw a fair share or Z serials with tempered movements, where they replace the movement by the 3186 from the explorer.
So only safe bet is the M serial since the complete M serial is equiped with the 3186, while only late Z seial has the 3186.

[Sarko]

Originally Posted by Rolex Freak

Hello TRF Friends,

I'm not sure if this has been discussed recently. I did see a thread dating back to 2010/11, but nothing current. Now that we are in 2016 I thought I'd bring it up. Just wondering if people feel that the 16710 GMT with 3186 movement is worth the premium. In most cases, they run about almost double what a non-3186 would go for. My understanding is that the late Z serial and M serial's were fitted with a 3186 movement along with either a stick or rectangular dial. I've also read that there were only about a total of 30,000 pieces made this way. In the grand scheme of things, they are very rare and extremely hard to find. Especially recently. I've searched pretty much all forums and other places like watchrecon and eBay and there are only a hand full, but only one complete set that comes with a ridiculously high price. Having said that, I just wanted some opinions on whether you feel the extra premium is worth paying. I've set up a poll, so feel free to vote and give me your opinion. I know some will feel that you can buy two for the price of one or just about, but what about future consideration. All thoughts are welcome and I appreciate the feedback.

Only if u want to speculate that this "Investment" will be worth more in the future. As a watch to wear, I woul not.

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

Nor would I. But some will. The one at the grey near my house lasted days. I think it was like $ 16,500 +.


Link to thread with pics of that GMT with 3186.


http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=435220

Wow, crazy.

[997.2]

Originally Posted by Rolex Freak

Thanks for the input Larry. Here is the link where I found the info on the numbers.

http://classicwatchny.com/watch-collection-2/

I don't know who this person is, but he obviously is trying to push the sale a little. With regards to your comment about "movement swapper," I guess more than ever you need to buy from a reputable source. Having said that, I'd still have my watchmaker open the case back to insure not that only that the movement is a 3186, but to insure that that movement serial is registered to that particular 16710. At the end of the day, whether it's internet hype, speculation or otherwise, it's up to the buyer to determine it's worth. Having said that, it's interesting to see and hear what people have to say about.

Lol how will your watchmaker EVER be able to verify such a thing?

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by 997.2

Lol how will your watchmaker EVER be able to verify such a thing?

Because he works for a RSC and each movement has a serial number that correlates to the watch that it's supposed to be with.

[jfmiii]

id rather have a Z serial without the 3186s. cheaper and has the same dial as the 3186, which i find really aesthetically pleasing with its taller coronet.

[MTROIS]

All tastes are out there and I certainly can understand why some people would be enticed to pay more for something being perceived as more rare (whether real or not), especially if intended as a collector's item.
For me, I'd rather have a 116710 with the 3186 and a 16710 with a 3185... But to each their own.
(Of course I would love a 1675 over all of them...)

[Rolex Freak]

Originally Posted by MTROIS

All tastes are out there and I certainly can understand why some people would be enticed to pay more for something being perceived as more rare (whether real or not), especially if intended as a collector's item.
For me, I'd rather have a 116710 with the 3186 and a 16710 with a 3185... But to each their own.
(Of course I would love a 1675 over all of them...)

Interesting. Thank you.

[shellbmb]

Originally Posted by TheRolexKingofLV

x2 Definite things to pay attention too as well.

I found a GMT Master II for sale at a local reputable grey dealer. They say it's a Z serial with a 3186 movement, but it comes with a paper warranty. And it has the roman numerals, not the stick type.

I couldn't care less if it's a 3185 or 3186. The watch is local to me and I just dont' want to get a fake or one that's been tampered with.

Thoughts?

[Robert993]

For collector mentality, yes it's worth every penny!
For daily beater, NO! Hell NO!

[droptopman]

Not worth the extra cost IMHO. Those that were smart/lucky to grab these when price was still reasonable are in a good position. Those coming late to the party will pay a premium for not much difference.

[slorollin]

"Except if someone have a proof of the contrary, all 16710/16570 with 3186 were delivered with credit card format warranty. All 3185 versions were delivered with a paper warranty.

So if you find a 16710/3186 with paper warranty , or a 16570/3185 with credit card warranty , especially if it's from the same vendor, there's a problem ..."

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this only applies to the U.S. Paper warranties were used in other countries for a while longer. I have a paper warranty from an overseas purchase, Z79XXXX serial, from late 2007. Whether I have a 3186, I don't know for sure. Maybe so, maybe not. I have never had the back off. I'd like to know, but not enough to pop the case.

[Alpino]

Originally Posted by slorollin

I have a paper warranty from an overseas purchase, Z79XXXX serial, from late 2007. Whether I have a 3186, I don't know for sure. Maybe so, maybe not. I have never had the back off. I'd like to know, but not enough to pop the case.

Make the crown test and you'll know for sure if it's a 3185 or a 3186, no need to open the case.

Crown in position 2 (hour hand alone), make exactly one turn of the crown. If hour hour hand moved 8/9 position it's a 3186 , if it moved 5/6 positions it's a 3185. That's it.

Keep us informed , i am interested in the result.

[slorollin]

Originally Posted by Alpino

Make the crown test and you'll know for sure if it's a 3185 or a 3186, no need to open the case.

Crown in position 2 (hour hand alone), make exactly one turn of the crown. If hour hour hand moved 8/9 position it's a 3186 , if it moved 5/6 positions it's a 3185. That's it.

Keep us informed , i am interested in the result.

Sigh..........3185. Well, now I know. You can't take the "Z" from me though. And on the upside there's no longer any indecision about whether to wear or hoard it.

[kirksingleton]

Rats, mine must be the 3185 also per the crown test. It advanced 6 hours with one rotation of the crown. I'll still crack the case at some point as I am hoping for a miracle!

[Alpino]

Originally Posted by slorollin

Sigh..........3185. Well, now I know. You can't take the "Z" from me though. And on the upside there's no longer any indecision about whether to wear or hoard it.

Originally Posted by kirksingleton

Rats, mine must be the 3185 also per the crown test. It advanced 6 hours with one rotation of the crown. I'll still crack the case at some point as I am hoping for a miracle!

At least you can be sure now that your 16710 aren't fake ... a fake doesn't execute the crown test well

[slorollin]

Originally Posted by kirksingleton

Rats, mine must be the 3185 also per the crown test. It advanced 6 hours with one rotation of the crown. I'll still crack the case at some point as I am hoping for a miracle!

You mean the miracle of having a severely impaired 3186? I'll take my perfectly performing 3185 and through the power of self delusion convince myself that I'm better off. Will only take me a couple days.

[Speed]

Anyone interested in more minutiae dealing with GMTs / 3185, 3186, dials, fonts etc...

Checkout TRF member Sheldon's site:

https://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.php

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by Speed

Anyone interested in more minutiae dealing with GMTs / 3185, 3186, dials, fonts etc...

Checkout TRF member Sheldon's site:

https://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.php

Great info here on the 3186s

[slorollin]

Originally Posted by Speed

Anyone interested in more minutiae dealing with GMTs / 3185, 3186, dials, fonts etc...

Checkout TRF member Sheldon's site:

https://www.minus4plus6.com/paracromblu16710.php

Good info here. Found out that while my "Z" has no 3186 it does have the rare "Rectangular ll" dial.

"So I got that goin' for me." Carl Spackler

[Speed]

Yes. Sheldon is a great member and a GMT fan as well. His site is a great source of info.

[shellbmb]

Originally Posted by Alpino

Make the crown test and you'll know for sure if it's a 3185 or a 3186, no need to open the case.

Crown in position 2 (hour hand alone), make exactly one turn of the crown. If hour hour hand moved 8/9 position it's a 3186 , if it moved 5/6 positions it's a 3185. That's it.

Keep us informed , i am interested in the result.

Will do. Going to go check it out this afternoon. Will perform the "crown test."

What's a fair price for a Z serial "pepsi" GMT in mint condition with 3186? Grey market dealer. Out of warranty anyways. I've seen 3185's in the 6k range depending on condition.

[TheRolexKingofLV]

Originally Posted by shellbmb

What's a fair price for a Z serial "pepsi" GMT in mint condition with 3186? Grey market dealer. Out of warranty anyways. I've seen 3185's in the 6k range depending on condition.

Pepsi's go for 12k-14k consistently, and Coke's a bit less. I've been offered these numbers for mine as well. They've turned into great investments for me.

[shellbmb]

Originally Posted by slorollin

"Except if someone have a proof of the contrary, all 16710/16570 with 3186 were delivered with credit card format warranty. All 3185 versions were delivered with a paper warranty.

So if you find a 16710/3186 with paper warranty , or a 16570/3185 with credit card warranty , especially if it's from the same vendor, there's a problem ..."

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this only applies to the U.S. Paper warranties were used in other countries for a while longer. I have a paper warranty from an overseas purchase, Z79XXXX serial, from late 2007. Whether I have a 3186, I don't know for sure. Maybe so, maybe not. I have never had the back off. I'd like to know, but not enough to pop the case.

You are correct. This was purchased originally in Argentina thus the paper warranty. It is in fact a Z serial GMT with 3186 with paper warranty.

Originally Posted by Alpino

Make the crown test and you'll know for sure if it's a 3185 or a 3186, no need to open the case.

Crown in position 2 (hour hand alone), make exactly one turn of the crown. If hour hour hand moved 8/9 position it's a 3186 , if it moved 5/6 positions it's a 3185. That's it.

Keep us informed , i am interested in the result.

Passed the crown test. It moved roughly 8/9 positions.

Now too bad it's already spoken for. Or at least on hold. Fair price too. Much less than 10-12k.

[Speed]

Crazy prices.

I have a lowly / but minty D Serial 3185...

I had a permanent link removed from my original oyster bracelet. I suppose someone would want to negotiate me down as a result. I also have a jubilee / B&P, tags etc...so I'd have to ponder what to sell the whole kit for.

Who am I kidding? I'm not selling! 😀