What's the point of trying to establish a relationship with Ap?

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by RJG

Life is just wayyyyyy too short to goof with these AD bozos and "cultivate" a relationship. It would be like trying to have a real relationship with a call girl.

My .02 worth.

I totally agree with you. We all have different priorities and points of view and I think that's what makes most of the conversations on here so interesting and informative (at least to me).

I know AP has some tactics to try and limit flipping, but to me, you either go all in and stop it, or just let it follow its natural course and try and weed out the obvious offenses. I feel they are too often playing both ends, and I find that bothersome. For me, it's driven me to the gray market. I don't see any changes coming about unless there is an economic catastrophe (possible) or an increase in supply (very, very unlikely).

[Rockland]

Originally Posted by westoque

Congrats! Wear in good health! What color did you get?


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Silver. Of course I wanted blue, but that ship will never enter my port. I do like this dial a lot!




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[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I totally agree with you. We all have different priorities and points of view and I think that's what makes most of the conversations on here so interesting and informative (at least to me).

I know AP has some tactics to try and limit flipping, but to me, you either go all in and stop it, or just let it follow its natural course and try and weed out the obvious offenses. I feel they are too often playing both ends, and I find that bothersome. For me, it's driven me to the gray market. I don't see any changes coming about unless there is an economic catastrophe (possible) or an increase in supply (very, very unlikely).

For me the buying experience of purchasing luxury goods was always a fun part of the whole experience. Other than the fear of being scammed that is what has held me back from buying grey. Maybe if you live in NYC you can technically go to grey dealers and try on watches but let's say it is most likely a less classy experience. Even worse ordering a really expensive watch online and then getting a watch in a package lessens the experience for me (most people call it convenience). Of course since the watch world has become so crazy I might have to do it if I really want a certain watch these days but I think I will not enjoy as much.

I am sure there are some here that will say, who cares I only care about the watch and that is fine but I would really enjoy establishing a relationship over a long time with a brand like AP and be invited to events and buy my watches in a nice environment with a tasty beverage - call me old school:)

[westoque]

Originally Posted by dauster

For me the buying experience of purchasing luxury goods was always a fun part of the whole experience. Other than the fear of being scammed that is what has held me back from buying grey. Maybe if you live in NYC you can technically go to grey dealers and try on watches but let's say it is most likely a less classy experience. Even worse ordering a really expensive watch online and then getting a watch in a package lessens the experience for me (most people call it convenience). Of course since the watch world has become so crazy I might have to do it if I really want a certain watch these days but I think I will not enjoy as much.

I am sure there are some here that will say, who cares I only care about the watch and that is fine but I would really enjoy establishing a relationship over a long time with a brand like AP and be invited to events and buy my watches in a nice environment with a tasty beverage - call me old school:)

Good take there my friend. I’m in the same boat as you here. The buying experience is definitely fun however frustrating because you don’t get what you want, only initially of course. But once you have that relationship going, not only do you get what you want, but also get to go to events etc and makes everything worthwhile.


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[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by dauster

For me the buying experience of purchasing luxury goods was always a fun part of the whole experience. Other than the fear of being scammed that is what has held me back from buying grey. Maybe if you live in NYC you can technically go to grey dealers and try on watches but let's say it is most likely a less classy experience. Even worse ordering a really expensive watch online and then getting a watch in a package lessens the experience for me (most people call it convenience). Of course since the watch world has become so crazy I might have to do it if I really want a certain watch these days but I think I will not enjoy as much.

I am sure there are some here that will say, who cares I only care about the watch and that is fine but I would really enjoy establishing a relationship over a long time with a brand like AP and be invited to events and buy my watches in a nice environment with a tasty beverage - call me old school:)

Hey, don't get me wrong! I love the boutique treatment. It's literally intoxicating and for sure completes the overall experience. I'd strongly prefer to buy everything at a boutique or AD, but that's become impossible but for all of a handful of pieces that quite frankly aren't always of interest.

In this market though, I'm simply not waiting months/years for almost anything remotely in demand. Especially when there is no guarantee. If there was a guarantee, it would be a completely different story. I think this is the part that irks me. I am totally fine with being patient, but what I will not tolerate is the games or changing on a whim.

[fsprow]

When you order a hard to get Ferrari from a dealer, if your order is accepted by the factory (with a deposit) you are given an estimated manufacturing and delivery date. Works well and eliminates frustration. Also, you sign a contract to only sell the vehicle back to the dealer for x years. No “flipping”. When they instituted this, the grey market disappeared and sales are all at MSRP.

I think AP, PP, Rolex etc. should go this way.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by fsprow

When you order a hard to get Ferrari from a dealer, if your order is accepted by the factory (with a deposit) you are given an estimated manufacturing and delivery date. Works well and eliminates frustration. Also, you sign a contract to only sell the vehicle back to the dealer for x years. No “flipping”. When they instituted this, the grey market disappeared and sales are all at MSRP.

I think AP, PP, Rolex etc. should go this way.

Hear hear!! Totally agree with you.

It'll never happen, because make no mistake the players are all making money in the current world.

If all that mattered was getting watches in the hands of people genuinely interested in them, something like this would be implemented.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by westoque

Good take there my friend. I’m in the same boat as you here. The buying experience is definitely fun however frustrating because you don’t get what you want, only initially of course. But once you have that relationship going, not only do you get what you want, but also get to go to events etc and makes everything worthwhile.


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Very true, establishing the relationship is definitely tough these days. I don't even think if I had the funds not to care I would start buying watches that I dont like just for the relationship. That's why I started this thread. Ill try to be patient and hopefully I will get somewhere over the next years. Maybe Ill go grey once or twice if it does not gt any better.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Hey, don't get me wrong! I love the boutique treatment. It's literally intoxicating and for sure completes the overall experience. I'd strongly prefer to buy everything at a boutique or AD, but that's become impossible but for all of a handful of pieces that quite frankly aren't always of interest.

In this market though, I'm simply not waiting months/years for almost anything remotely in demand. Especially when there is no guarantee. If there was a guarantee, it would be a completely different story. I think this is the part that irks me. I am totally fine with being patient, but what I will not tolerate is the games or changing on a whim.

agreed, it would go a long way if "AD boutiques" would not act like shady used car salesman - AP (and PP for that matter) should do something about it but I doubt they will.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Hear hear!! Totally agree with you.

It'll never happen, because make no mistake the players are all making money in the current world.

If all that mattered was getting watches in the hands of people genuinely interested in them, something like this would be implemented.

I would love an interviewer bringing this up to T. Stern or Francois B but I doubt they would dive into the details beyond "we buy back a number watches each year to counteract the flipping".

[macrowatch]

Forget the watches! I want the RO pen!

[Waybach]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Forget the watches! I want the RO pen!

Do they still give these out?

[tmw88]

This seems like an appropriate place to ask since there’s some criticisms of AP. Fratello Watches recently posted an article about the RO Jumbo and in it the authors talked about the AP brand and specifically the CEO putting them off owning their watches.

Why exactly is their CEO disliked? That was the first I had heard.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Waybach

Do they still give these out?

Yes, I received the gold one last year from NYC boutique.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by tmw88

This seems like an appropriate place to ask since there’s some criticisms of AP. Fratello Watches recently posted an article about the RO Jumbo and in it the authors talked about the AP brand and specifically the CEO putting them off owning their watches.

Why exactly is their CEO disliked? That was the first I had heard.

FB made a lot of folks angry by pulling the brand from ADs that helped build it over decades. And I believe, having recently discussed this with RJ, there’s also some things that happen behind the scenes with regard to the media that RJ had his reasons not to like.

More generally though, I think people as engaged as us lot often feel that these brands are somehow a part of our collective culture that, in a way, belongs to us too in such capacity, especially if we purchase their products with our hard earned money. So when a guy comes around that is less of a diligent custodian of our common cultural good and more of a cost/revenue focussed manager seeking to make as much money for the family who own the brand as possible, some can feel a bit expropriated... and likely not entirely without justification.

[Waybach]

Originally Posted by SMD

Yes, I received the gold one last year from NYC boutique.

Thanks! When my friend picked up his ROC from the Dallas boutique they told him they don’t make them anymore. I’ve always wanted one.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Waybach

Thanks! When my friend picked up his ROC from the Dallas boutique they told him they don’t make them anymore. I’ve always wanted one.

I believe they are sent around the holidays and not as swag with a purchase. They are quite pricey I believe.

[maciej]

Originally Posted by SMD

I believe they are sent around the holidays and not as swag with a purchase. They are quite pricey I believe.

They don't have any more pens, that's just when they happened to distribute them.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by maciej

They don't have any more pens, that's just when they happened to distribute them.

Okay. Received mine as part of a holiday package along with a few other things.

[McGooberstein]

It's really unfortunate that AP doesn't have a few "less desirable" models that are still attractive. For someone with an average sized circumference wrist (7"), there are really zero options that I'd consider purchasing outside the 39-41mm royal oaks.

My only options to "cultivate a relationship" prior to getting what I actually want- a 41mm royal oak in SS, are to either buy some hideous and undesirable overstylized, oversized flavor of the month ROO's built for NBA/NFL players, or an inferior and overpriced dress watch in the code 11:59 or milleniary lines.

Rolex has nailed it in terms of getting people to keep coming back for their product and "building a relationship." No, you're not likely to get a daytona or GMT in SS right out of the gate, but at least you can buy a classic watch like a DJ, sub, explorer, or daydate prior to getting access to the hottest models.

Especially after the release of the code 11:59 line, AP seems completely lost at the moment. They probably think their strategy is going to build a more exclusive brand, but in reality it's just putting a sour taste in the mouths of many potential customers who are just going to find a better experience elsewhere.

If its games they want to play, I'll happily stick with the great AD's I've been able to work with for Rolex and PP.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by McGooberstein

It's really unfortunate that AP doesn't have a few "less desirable" models that are still attractive. For someone with an average sized circumference wrist (7"), there are really zero options that I'd consider purchasing outside the 39-41mm royal oaks.

My only options to "cultivate a relationship" prior to getting what I actually want- a 41mm royal oak in SS, are to either buy some hideous and undesirable overstylized, oversized flavor of the month ROO's built for NBA/NFL players, or an inferior and overpriced dress watch in the code 11:59 or milleniary lines.

Rolex has nailed it in terms of getting people to keep coming back for their product and "building a relationship." No, you're not likely to get a daytona or GMT in SS right out of the gate, but at least you can buy a classic watch like a DJ, sub, explorer, or daydate prior to getting access to the hottest models.

Especially after the release of the code 11:59 line, AP seems completely lost at the moment. They probably think their strategy is going to build a more exclusive brand, but in reality it's just putting a sour taste in the mouths of many potential customers who are just going to find a better experience elsewhere.

If its games they want to play, I'll happily stick with the great AD's I've been able to work with for Rolex and PP.

So, I think my posts show I'm pretty critical of AP and it's been my experience that there have been some shenanigans I don't care for.

That said, I don't think it's as dire as you're saying. I used to dismiss the Offshore line, but have come to discover there are SO MANY fun watches and some of them are very attainable. Sure, there are a few that fit the description you mention, but I think you'd be hard pressed not to find 4-5 models that would be a great addition to your collection. I encourage you to get to a boutique if you can and try some of them out.

I also don't think it's fair to call the Code line "inferior". They are precious medal watches, with a very nicely styled and finished case and a modern movement. It's definitely not gotten a lot of positive press, but I'm starting to see some changes that make me think in the end this line will be successful.

At the end of the day, if only a 41mm SS Royal Oak speaks to you, just go gray and be done with it. You'll certainly be happier. This said, if you show genuine interest and also exercise some patience, I'm pretty sure you'll be rewarded in no more than a year or two without having to buy anything else.

[macrowatch]

Seems like you need about 250k-500k to properly start the AP relationship in this current crazy Bubble (and maybe 100-150k for Rolex).

I find it interesting to read all the Rolex threads contemplating upgrading from a Hulk or Daytona into AP. And who can blame that decision?

[dauster]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Seems like you need about 250k-500k to properly start the AP relationship in this current crazy Bubble (and maybe 100-150k for Rolex).

I find it interesting to read all the Rolex threads contemplating upgrading from a Hulk or Daytona into AP. And who can blame that decision?

Sure but that’s only the case if you want a concept or skeleton or CE perpetual. I don’t think you need 500k for a 15202 or blue 15500, maybe I’m wrong. Also premiums for most AP watches are ok not like PP.