I weep for the future….

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

'The children now love luxury; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are tyrants, not servants of the households. They no longer rise when their elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize over their teachers.'

(Commonly attributed to SOCRATES by Plato

I get that every generation of old men claims that the young people suck. But I’m a millennial, and I can confirm the kids today do legitimately have a bunch of issues. Unprecedented technological development, combined with unprecedented globalization, and various other events I need not mention since you could guess them, have created bizarre problems with the young kids of today.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Question: if I say a quarter to four or twenty past five am I going to be understood or do I have to say three forty-five and five twenty?

My sons girlfriend from Brooklyn doesn't understand that. It is how I speak, Half twelve etc.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Andad

When all the kids in the US can read an analogue dial Paul can you teach them how to write the date correctly.

Day/Month/Year?

But call it the 4th of July.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I get that every generation of old men claims that the young people suck. But I’m a millennial, and I can confirm the kids today do legitimately have a bunch of issues. Unprecedented technological development, combined with unprecedented globalization, and various other events I need not mention since you could guess them, have created bizarre problems with the young kids of today.

In the past we had the constant threat of global thermonuclear war, the draft, a new recreational drug culture, and a hyperactive youth political movement.

Todays kids are docile compared to my generation.

Don’t get me started on hippies and stoners.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Maybe so. I voted in the public elementary school near me, and it was clear that school doesn’t even require being able to read. Most of the signs were pictorials (like a no-hitting sign, a picture of sports items to mark the gym door, etc). To the extent any words were used, they were in both Spanish and English, so I’d think Spanish alone could get you through NYC public schools probably. But they also have kids at these schools now who can’t speak Spanish, either — I figure they just sit around for the free lunch — in which case reading a clock would be highly relevant.

A good bit of the fault of todays education has to do with the parents who don’t parent. Schools have little if anything to say when it comes to holding little Johnny or Susie accountable for their actions let alone whether little Johnny or Susie advances to the next grade or even whether they even do any homework.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Maleg

In the past we had the constant threat of global thermonuclear war, the draft, a new recreational drug culture, and a hyperactive youth political movement.

Todays kids are docile compared to my generation.

Don’t get me started on hippies and stoners.

So am I overreacting to these newly arrived colleagues?

25 year old John Doe — refuses to answer the phone, ever. Any time you call, he responds by instant message or by email.

26 year old Jane Doe — me telling her anything was “mansplaining” so we just booted her off the project.

25 year old Jane Doe — wants to work only on things with a positive social impact and that will not exacerbate inequality of any kind (impossible as a corporate law firm, given who our clients are. Apparently she wants to get paid like a corporate lawyer while doing the work of a non-profit).

[joeychitwood]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Schools don’t have analog clocks anymore? Mine did, and I’m not old

Our classroom clocks were heavily pasted with dried spitballs.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

So am I overreacting to these newly arrived colleagues?

25 year old John Doe — refuses to answer the phone, ever. Any time you call, he responds by instant message or by email.

26 year old Jane Doe — me telling her anything was “mansplaining” so we just booted her off the project.

25 year old Jane Doe — wants to work only on things with a positive social impact and that will not exacerbate inequality of any kind (impossible as a corporate law firm, given who our clients are. Apparently she wants to get paid like a corporate lawyer while doing the work of a non-profit).

Define overreacting.

I have witnessed manifestations of all those behaviors throughout my career. Adapting to the team you have versus the team you want is part of the process. Coach, mentor, train the team members is another part. It’s never been instantaneous or easy to assemble and maintain a great team, but it’s always been a part of the workplace.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Maleg

Define overreacting.

I have witnessed manifestations of all those behaviors throughout my career. Adapting to the team you have versus the team you want is part of the process. Coach, mentor, train the team members is another part. It’s never been instantaneous or easy to assemble and maintain a great team, but it’s always been a part of the workplace.

“Weeping for the future”

[JTL31]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

It all comes down to teaching.

Teach your children well....

Both wife's kids can read an analog clockface.

^This As a former I was stunned when I’d ask the students to move clockwise or counter clockwise while in a circle. Even the older ones.

I’m in the process of teaching my adult daughter how to set the time, date, and wind my mechanical watches. It’s been interesting as she uses her cell phone to tell time. She did learn as a young child how to read analog based on the clocks at school though.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

“Weeping for the future”

Ha! A very melodramatic title for certain. But, he was very clever to suck us all in with it.

[East Bay Rider]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

So am I overreacting to these newly arrived colleagues?

25 year old John Doe — refuses to answer the phone, ever. Any time you call, he responds by instant message or by email.

26 year old Jane Doe — me telling her anything was “mansplaining” so we just booted her off the project.

25 year old Jane Doe — wants to work only on things with a positive social impact and that will not exacerbate inequality of any kind (impossible as a corporate law firm, given who our clients are. Apparently she wants to get paid like a corporate lawyer while doing the work of a non-profit).

That sounds like a maturity (probably shouldn't have hired) issue. Now that you're stuck with them someone might need to have the dutch uncle "Welcome to the world after college - here's how things work. If you're not going to conform and perform you should leave" talk.

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Our classroom clocks were heavily pasted with dried spitballs.

We must have gone to the same school.

[m j b]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I get that every generation of old men claims that the young people suck. But I’m a millennial, and I can confirm the kids today do legitimately have a bunch of issues. Unprecedented technological development, combined with unprecedented globalization, and various other events I need not mention since you could guess them, have created bizarre problems with the young kids of today.

I blame the parents.

Originally Posted by dddrees

A good bit of the fault of todays education has to do with the parents who don’t parent. Schools have little if anything to say when it comes to holding little Johnny or Susie accountable for their actions let alone whether little Johnny or Susie advances to the next grade or even whether they even do any homework.

Great minds...

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

So am I overreacting to these newly arrived colleagues?

25 year old John Doe — refuses to answer the phone, ever. Any time you call, he responds by instant message or by email.

26 year old Jane Doe — me telling her anything was “mansplaining” so we just booted her off the project.

25 year old Jane Doe — wants to work only on things with a positive social impact and that will not exacerbate inequality of any kind (impossible as a corporate law firm, given who our clients are. Apparently she wants to get paid like a corporate lawyer while doing the work of a non-profit).

OK, your first problem is hiring these kids with the same name. That must be confusing in the office. "Doe, please come to my office."



I have a couple of millennials on my team, and a couple at home. I've not experienced the issues that you have, but it is interesting to see/hear their perspective on things, like being perhaps more socially responsible than my generation. But also they don't get why there is a land line in their office when Skype is readily available. I've also had issues with a former female employee who felt that I didn't treat her fairly and gave her too much work to do. I only found out about that in her exit interview.

So I'm trying to do better, listen more, ask them about their feelings and crap like that.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by m j b

I blame the parents.

Great minds...

OK, your first problem is hiring these kids with the same name. That must be confusing in the office. "Doe, please come to my office."



I have a couple of millennials on my team, and a couple at home. I've not experienced the issues that you have, but it is interesting to see/hear their perspective on things, like being perhaps more socially responsible than my generation. But also they don't get why there is a land line in their office when Skype is readily available. I've also had issues with a former female employee who felt that I didn't treat her fairly and gave her too much work to do. I only found out about that in her exit interview.

So I'm trying to do better, listen more, ask them about their feelings and crap like that.

Try bribing them. Company car for high achievers. Top 1% get BMWs.

[Blansky]

As someone who's been around awhile, I see a lot of this, as just a pre-computer world vs post-computer world.

Google changed research. We used to have to look up stuff in Encyclopedia Britannica.

Now people converse by text, we used to talk.

People now type out letters to make words, we used to write (cursive) which I can barely do legibly anymore. Even my signature which I used to do 20 times a day, sucks.

Digital timing devices basically has or could replace analog. Analog could just be a novelty if we don't keep introducing it.

Digital has basically replaced analog music and photography although it's still a niche or novelty.

I don't really get the complaining about young people today, since we created them. They were a blank sheet when they entered the world. They are merely reacting to the world they see.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by Blansky

As someone who's been around awhile, I see a lot of this, as just a pre-computer world vs post-computer world.

Google changed research. We used to have to look up stuff in Encyclopedia Britannica.

Now people converse by text, we used to talk.

People now type out letters to make words, we used to write (cursive) which I can barely do legibly anymore. Even my signature which I used to do 20 times a day, sucks.

Digital timing devices basically has or could replace analog. Analog could just be a novelty if we don't keep introducing it.

Digital has basically replaced analog music and photography although it's still a niche or novelty.

I don't really get the complaining about young people today, since we created them. They were a blank sheet when they entered the world. They are merely reacting to the world they see.

I completely agree. Reading threads on this forum present far worse and disturbing things than someone who cannot read an analog gauge

[GB-man]

I’ve got a watch for them Paul. They will say it’s lit af fr fr.



(Photo credit monochrome)

[cartesian Product]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Unprecedented technological development, combined with unprecedented globalization, and various other events I need not mention since you could guess them, have created bizarre problems with the young kids of today.

I agree.

I would add that America has not responded well to the past two generations of unprecedented prosperity we’ve enjoyed. The kids are largely the way they are as a result of our (older folks') parenting habits. As we sow, we reap.

[cartesian Product]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Our classroom clocks were heavily pasted with dried spitballs.

Lol!

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by beshannon

I completely agree. Reading threads on this forum present far worse and disturbing things than someone who cannot read an analog gauge

And added to that, there is something addictive about computers. And it hits every age.

My wife and I take her mother 88 years old, and her 2 sisters 50-60ish to Hawaii every autumn for 1 week. Every morning my wife and I get up and go out for a walk for about 3 miles. When we come back they are sitting inside all on their iPads playing games. We are right on the beach in PARADISE and they don't even get up to go outside.

When we make dinner in the room, they're all sitting at the table engrossed in their iPads.

It ain't just kids doing it.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Maleg

In the past we had the constant threat of global thermonuclear war, the draft, a new recreational drug culture, and a hyperactive youth political movement.

Todays kids are docile compared to my generation.

Don’t get me started on hippies and stoners.

We don't have a current threat of nuclear war with Russia?

We can't even trust the drugs we buy won't kill us. Fentanyl is in everything. The dirt weed you had in the 70s is cute compared to strains we have out today. Can't even smoke it without triggering psychosis. Not to mention there's heroine, cocaine, meth and crack making its way into wealthier communities as a result of the interwebs.

Shrooms are stronger, acid is just as easy to come by, not to mention theres so many legal designer versions of most any drug out there that are perfectly legal. Kids these days have it coming at them from all angles.

to say there isn't a hyperactive political movement of millenials is extremely naive. Everyone thinks they're a political activist fighting for social justice these days. Not saying it's a great direction, but they are certainly strong in their convictions; however misguided they may be. Pretty sure it started with the boys coming back from Nam anyways. The boomers were not thrilled seeing their kids sent off for slaughter.

As for the draft, we were at war from the time I was 7-26, we didn't have to draft because recruiting officers were fixtures in school from middle school onward signing on any body who showed the remotest interest.

And what do you think happened when Snowden and Assange leaked all those files?

I know I looked, and I will never be able to unsee the atrocities committed by my country. Seeing murdered civilians being pissed on in ditches, dead children blown up on the side of streets, entire villages blown apart that had been around for thousands of years. An entire country turned to rubble and another generation of soldiers afflicted by the hell they were told to endure.

You think it makes me feel good knowing that these men sacrificed years of their life only to come home to battle their internal demons, with plenty of them claiming their own life in the end.

Call me docile all you want, but there isn't enough money in the world to do the US governments bidding. Especially when they don't give a shit about you when you return home. If there is ever an active threat to the US, I won't hesitate a moment to take up arms and arm my fellow man. We haven't fought a worthwhile war since Korea though in my opinion.

Kids these days are docile?

Do you watch the news?

These kids will walk into a school, shoot all their classmates and laugh in the face of the judge. Kids are angrier than ever with nowhere to place it.

I couldn't even kick my bullies ass in school without fearing assault charges. So instead I had to show up every day. Get made fun of for who I was and learned to hate myself as a result.

Then only to get home and have complete disdain from my father for failing to fulfill whatever standard he had set for me at the time.

As a millenial, I have had to put up with everyone's shit for years, listen to adults that ran this country into the ground with their poor financial decisions and political choices over the past 30-50years tell me how my generation who has hardly been in the job market for the past 15 years has entirely tanked this country and it's value system.

It's obnoxious.

My generation has had to make do with less than prior generations, the job market is oversaturated. Educations are practically worthless, allowing the Chinese in was the worst decision you guys could have made and from my viewpoint there is almost no chance of recovery.

Why would I pursue a job in Engineering when someone from China is willing to do the work for half price for 10 years so they can dip out with all our secrets and live a lavish life back home in short time. Plus they have 10 engineering students for every one of ours. And that's just the industry I studied for, Chinese labor has devalued plenty of other skilled job markets as well. I'm not the only one whose been shafted.

Had Gen Xers and Boomers not sold out our job market, I could sympathize a bit. America as it was known in the 20th century is dead. it wasn't millenial policy that got us to this point.

I'm not saying this generation is better by any means, but to say they're a bunch of peaceful pushovers without any of the threats you experienced is completely out of touch with reality.

I can almost guarantee you're a middle to upper class white male based on your world view. As the next generation, I am blamed for everything you've stood for. The only reason I am a hippie is because I'd be in prison if I acted out. I'm a piece of shit for existing according to society. Would be nice if I wasn't villainized by the generation I do my best to respect.

Choosing Peace over Chaos is not an easy decision to make. But being upset at the world for it not conforming to my world view is an unhealthy way of living. So I make due. Anytime I open my mouth, most people just think I'm an asshole anyways.

Be thankful you don't have to see how this all plays out.







At the end of the day, the world is a messy place; and its been going down hill since the beginning of time. The human spirit has an amazing way of adapting and overcoming which leaves me hopeful we can stop this train wreck.

There's plenty of blame to go around though.

And while my generation has its issues, we're not as pathetic as everyone makes us out to be.

[TswaneNguni]

The cellphone made the human dumb and social media gave the fool a voice .
They cant read time,they cant spell,the zombies cant think.
They cannot read a book,because the attention span is too short .
Search mode tuned to instant gratification.
Interest isn't subject of matter,but rather spying on others,doing nothing in a fake social media world.
Botox and fillers with a dash of photoshop .
The social media video,more important than the actual experience
Vegetables !!

[GB-man]

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by 330ci

We don't have a current threat of nuclear war with Russia?

We can't even trust the drugs we buy won't kill us. Fentanyl is in everything. The dirt weed you had in the 70s is cute compared to strains we have out today. Can't even smoke it without triggering psychosis. Not to mention there's heroine, cocaine, meth and crack making its way into wealthier communities as a result of the interwebs.

Shrooms are stronger, acid is just as easy to come by, not to mention theres so many legal designer versions of most any drug out there that are perfectly legal. Kids these days have it coming at them from all angles.

to say there isn't a hyperactive political movement of millenials is extremely naive. Everyone thinks they're a political activist fighting for social justice these days. Not saying it's a great direction, but they are certainly strong in their convictions; however misguided they may be. Pretty sure it started with the boys coming back from Nam anyways. The boomers were not thrilled seeing their kids sent off for slaughter.

As for the draft, we were at war from the time I was 7-26, we didn't have to draft because recruiting officers were fixtures in school from middle school onward signing on any body who showed the remotest interest.

And what do you think happened when Snowden and Assange leaked all those files?

I know I looked, and I will never be able to unsee the atrocities committed by my country. Seeing murdered civilians being pissed on in ditches, dead children blown up on the side of streets, entire villages blown apart that had been around for thousands of years. An entire country turned to rubble and another generation of soldiers afflicted by the hell they were told to endure.

You think it makes me feel good knowing that these men sacrificed years of their life only to come home to battle their internal demons, with plenty of them claiming their own life in the end.

Call me docile all you want, but there isn't enough money in the world to do the US governments bidding. Especially when they don't give a shit about you when you return home. If there is ever an active threat to the US, I won't hesitate a moment to take up arms and arm my fellow man. We haven't fought a worthwhile war since Korea though in my opinion.

Kids these days are docile?

Do you watch the news?

These kids will walk into a school, shoot all their classmates and laugh in the face of the judge. Kids are angrier than ever with nowhere to place it.

I couldn't even kick my bullies ass in school without fearing assault charges. So instead I had to show up every day. Get made fun of for who I was and learned to hate myself as a result.

Then only to get home and have complete disdain from my father for failing to fulfill whatever standard he had set for me at the time.

As a millenial, I have had to put up with everyone's shit for years, listen to adults that ran this country into the ground with their poor financial decisions and political choices over the past 30-50years tell me how my generation who has hardly been in the job market for the past 15 years has entirely tanked this country and it's value system.

It's obnoxious.

My generation has had to make do with less than prior generations, the job market is oversaturated. Educations are practically worthless, allowing the Chinese in was the worst decision you guys could have made and from my viewpoint there is almost no chance of recovery.

Why would I pursue a job in Engineering when someone from China is willing to do the work for half price for 10 years so they can dip out with all our secrets and live a lavish life back home in short time. Plus they have 10 engineering students for every one of ours. And that's just the industry I studied for, Chinese labor has devalued plenty of other skilled job markets as well. I'm not the only one whose been shafted.

Had Gen Xers and Boomers not sold out our job market, I could sympathize a bit. America as it was known in the 20th century is dead. it wasn't millenial policy that got us to this point.

I'm not saying this generation is better by any means, but to say they're a bunch of peaceful pushovers without any of the threats you experienced is completely out of touch with reality.

I can almost guarantee you're a middle to upper class white male based on your world view. As the next generation, I am blamed for everything you've stood for. The only reason I am a hippie is because I'd be in prison if I acted out

Choosing Peace over Chaos is not an easy decision to make. But being upset at the world for it not conforming to my world view is an unhealthy way of living. So I make due.

Be thankful you don't have to see how this all plays out.







At the end of the day, the world is a messy place; and its been going down hill since the beginning of time. The human spirit has an amazing way of adapting and overcoming which leaves me hopeful we can stop this train wreck.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Memories fade and everyone points to the current time as especially different and new generation as the one that’s a problem. You are no different. In 40 years you will see the light.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by 330ci

We don't have a current threat of nuclear war with Russia?

We can't even trust the drugs we buy won't kill us. Fentanyl is in everything. The dirt weed you had in the 70s is cute compared to strains we have out today. Can't even smoke it without triggering psychosis. Not to mention there's heroine, cocaine, meth and crack making its way into wealthier communities as a result of the interwebs.

Shrooms are stronger, acid is just as easy to come by, not to mention theres so many legal designer versions of most any drug out there that are perfectly legal. Kids these days have it coming at them from all angles.

to say there isn't a hyperactive political movement of millenials is extremely naive. Everyone thinks they're a political activist fighting for social justice these days. Not saying it's a great direction, but they are certainly strong in their convictions; however misguided they may be. Pretty sure it started with the boys coming back from Nam anyways. The boomers were not thrilled seeing their kids sent off for slaughter.

As for the draft, we were at war from the time I was 7-26, we didn't have to draft because recruiting officers were fixtures in school from middle school onward signing on any body who showed the remotest interest.

And what do you think happened when Snowden and Assange leaked all those files?

I know I looked, and I will never be able to unsee the atrocities committed by my country. Seeing murdered civilians being pissed on in ditches, dead children blown up on the side of streets, entire villages blown apart that had been around for thousands of years. An entire country turned to rubble and another generation of soldiers afflicted by the hell they were told to endure.

You think it makes me feel good knowing that these men sacrificed years of their life only to come home to battle their internal demons, with plenty of them claiming their own life in the end.

Call me docile all you want, but there isn't enough money in the world to do the US governments bidding. Especially when they don't give a shit about you when you return home. If there is ever an active threat to the US, I won't hesitate a moment to take up arms and arm my fellow man. We haven't fought a worthwhile war since Korea though in my opinion.

Kids these days are docile?

Do you watch the news?

These kids will walk into a school, shoot all their classmates and laugh in the face of the judge. Kids are angrier than ever with nowhere to place it.

I couldn't even kick my bullies ass in school without fearing assault charges. So instead I had to show up every day. Get made fun of for who I was and learned to hate myself as a result.

Then only to get home and have complete disdain from my father for failing to fulfill whatever standard he had set for me at the time.

As a millenial, I have had to put up with everyone's shit for years, listen to adults that ran this country into the ground with their poor financial decisions and political choices over the past 30-50years tell me how my generation who has hardly been in the job market for the past 15 years has entirely tanked this country and it's value system.

It's obnoxious.

My generation has had to make do with less than prior generations, the job market is oversaturated. Educations are practically worthless, allowing the Chinese in was the worst decision you guys could have made and from my viewpoint there is almost no chance of recovery.

Why would I pursue a job in Engineering when someone from China is willing to do the work for half price for 10 years so they can dip out with all our secrets and live a lavish life back home in short time. Plus they have 10 engineering students for every one of ours. And that's just the industry I studied for, Chinese labor has devalued plenty of other skilled job markets as well. I'm not the only one whose been shafted.

Had Gen Xers and Boomers not sold out our job market, I could sympathize a bit. America as it was known in the 20th century is dead. it wasn't millenial policy that got us to this point.

I'm not saying this generation is better by any means, but to say they're a bunch of peaceful pushovers without any of the threats you experienced is completely out of touch with reality.

I can almost guarantee you're a middle to upper class white male based on your world view. As the next generation, I am blamed for everything you've stood for. The only reason I am a hippie is because I'd be in prison if I acted out. I'm a piece of shit for existing according to society. Would be nice if I wasn't villainized by the generation I do my best to respect.

Choosing Peace over Chaos is not an easy decision to make. But being upset at the world for it not conforming to my world view is an unhealthy way of living. So I make due. Anytime I open my mouth, most people just think I'm an asshole anyways.

Be thankful you don't have to see how this all plays out.







At the end of the day, the world is a messy place; and its been going down hill since the beginning of time. The human spirit has an amazing way of adapting and overcoming which leaves me hopeful we can stop this train wreck.

There's plenty of blame to go around though.

And while my generation has its issues, we're not as pathetic as everyone makes us out to be.

I don't have any answers for this but I'm truly sorry for the pain you are feeling.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I don't have any answers for this but I'm truly sorry for the pain you are feeling.

The pain is in the past at this point. Just seems interesting that we recognize every generation as problematic yet offer no sympathy to the next one, trying to bridge the gaps of inequality so to speak.

Alot of these issues seem to be intergenerational

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by 330ci

The pain is in the past at this point. Just seems interesting that we recognize every generation as problematic yet offer no sympathy to the next one, trying to bridge the gaps of inequality so to speak.

Despite their many transgressions against future generations, we have to forgive Boomers. Why? because boomers can read analog clocks

[Knappo 1307]

I'm not going to copy and paste 330ci's quote, but I will say I believe there is something in todays culture that has bred desensitivity whether it be video games about killing and stealing cars, or just instant access to anything in seconds at your finger tips. Unfortunately, video games and iphones were this generations babysitters for many nowadays. It 100% comes back to parenting...
Sorry Paul, didn't mean to add to the derailment of the thread.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

Despite their many transgressions against future generations, we have to forgive Boomers. Why? because boomers can read analog clocks

Boomers are probably the greatest generation of Americans. They pulled together when it counted and saved the world. Whatever they messed up pales in comparison when I truely reflect.

Maybe I was a bit "triggered" lol I just feel like we haven't been around long enough to screw everything up or share as much of the blame as we're handed.