What's the point of trying to establish a relationship with Ap?

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by dauster

Thanks, my frustrations are not really that I can’t get a 15500 that quickly even though that would be nice but that barely any watch are available.

I am with you, and it really is sad (and frustrating). Back in April, I tried to work with the boutique to get my first ROO. It really was a joke. I was offered I believe 3 models and every one of them I would really be a fool to buy at MSRP + tax. Everything else (inclusive of models that are not selling gray at any premium at all) was "Nope, no way. Not now". I wasn't trying to get anything remotely exclusive, either. Although, I did try and get a blue camo which is not the easiest watch to get and may not even be available any longer. I dunno...

Here's what finally became clear in my head - Why would I pay $5k to $7k more for a watch when you're basically telling me nothing is available now, and there was literally no interest in agreeing to work with me towards something more exclusive OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS?

At some point, you really have to pull yourself away and admit you're playing a sucker's game. Which, lead me to what I said. I now try and keep multiple channels open. This approach has already paid dividends for me.

[Rockland]

Originally Posted by dauster

Maybe it's a "Westime phenomenon" but I am a bit curious as to how AP expects people to buy their precious Code or rather establish a real relationship if basically none of their watches are available?

Other than openworked and tourbillion ROO that are basically heavy hitter pieces anyway only two 44mm ROOs are currently readily available at Crystals in Las Vegas: A
REF. #26400IO.OO.A004CA.01 (basically grey titanium model) and REF. #26401RO.OO.A002CA.02 (the pink gold ROO) - one month wait or so.

Both I like and the pink gold is definitely great but that's it? All new ROO are sold out - not that I even like them but still and on top of that I was just told that the only grail watch that seemed somewhat in reach SS PC is discontinued?

WTF AP.

I will just go grey from now on then. They would not even commit to any color 15500 in SS if I were to buy my 2nd watch in 6 months (I like the white diver). So after potentially spending basically $50k loyally at their boutique they would not even promise a SS 15500 ?

My first watch was a 42mm ROO with havanna dial and blue sub dials, which I love but very annoyed that this is the way the game is supposed to be. Not everybody can spend millions.

I am not even talking about any hot pieces but this is just a waste of time...
Sorry for the rant but tonight's conversation with the boutique just opened my eyes

I agree with you. It is simply ridiculous. I live in Atlanta and expressed my interest in a 15500 the day the boutique opened 9 months ago. Have stayed in touch with the salesman and have asked every 6 weeks to keep me in mind if one comes in. Walked in today, and one of the saleswomen said that they get 10 new inquiries per day about the 15500 (most likely BS) and that I have to “build the relationship.” I guess this is code for buying two divers and an 11:59. I have a Ti44 which I love and would like a 15500 but this whole “build the relationship” stuff is crap if they can’t offer me the watch I want to buy.

[kdphan]

Interesting times we live in where we have to kiss someone’s ass so that we can throw $$ at them.

[speedfighter]

Originally Posted by kdphan

Interesting times we live in where we have to kiss someone’s ass so that we can throw $$ at them.

You're absolutely right and no watch is worth that. If I can't have Italian food than Chinese is a perfectly viable option. I would never play this game for a timepiece.

[Laszlo]

Originally Posted by kdphan

Interesting times we live in where we have to kiss someone’s ass so that we can throw $$ at them.

Absolute insanity.

[GS93108]

Supply and demand is basic economics.

We the consumer are driving this demand and AP can't (or won't) supply.

Try buying a new Ferrari...or getting tickets to Hamilton...or centre court tickets to Wimbledon on finals day...or the biggest nonsense of them all, a new iPhone on launch day!!!

Nothing new in any of this and nothing 'interesting about these times', just SSDD.

Let's remember, this isn't a waiting list for kidney, its just a watch. Carry on...

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by GS93108

a new iPhone on launch day!!!

Apple still lets me pre-order on launch day, and I'll receive it a couple weeks later.

I can't pre-order a 15500 Blue dial and receive it a year, or two, or three later. There's no "pre-order."

I hear you on supply/demand, but let's be honest, AP can easily up the supply here (and reduce supply of garbage pieces). Ferrari doesn't have garbage models they can reduce production to increase capacity for hot models. Hamilton can't produce more theatre space.

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Apple still lets me pre-order on launch day, and I'll receive it a couple weeks later.

I can't pre-order a 15500 Blue dial and receive it a year, or two, or three later. There's no "pre-order."

I hear you on supply/demand, but let's be honest, AP can easily up the supply here (and reduce supply of garbage pieces). Ferrari doesn't have garbage models they can reduce production to increase capacity for hot models. Hamilton can't produce more theatre space.

Well while that's true, surely Fiat could surely expand production of more cars if it wanted to reach equilibrium. And of course we have that Disney+ version of Hamilton now... I think in luxury business model, at some point, you are in fact paying for scarcity, i.e. paying a higher price so someone else can't buy an additional unit.

I might suggest to the OP that age and perception as a long term customer might be playing an issue resulting in getting 'disqualified' as a true prospect for the specific boutique or sales associate.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Well while that's true, surely Fiat could surely expand production of more cars if it wanted to reach equilibrium.

Agreed.

Still, that requires expanding production between brands / factories / autonomous corporate entities.

My AP argument simply requires them to reduce output of lower selling references in favor of increasing output for better selling references. :) A much, much simpler action.

[phow]

I haven't read through the entire thread but a few points that might help the OP:

1. Don't waste your time with partner boutiques or AD's. My understanding based on my own experiencing is that Corp AP boutiques get the most allocations and those allocations are sold to real customers. Partner boutiques and AD's are lower priority as many simply sell out the back door to established grey dealers.

Think about is this way, as a partner boutique or AD who really doesn't have a vested interested in the customer perception of the brand, why would they go through the motions and trouble selling to unknown customers (returns, chargebacks, etc) when they can just shoot the inventory right out the back door to established grey dealers who likely pay full price anyway?

2. AP is supposedly phasing out the partner boutiques and AD's. This means establishing a relationship with either of these is a giant waste of time as the purchase history will likely mean very little when those dealers are phased out.

3. I purchased my first AP, a 15500ST from the Corp boutique in NYC. My experience was top notch and I received my watch in a very reasonable amount of time. I see a lot of benefits establishing the relationship with Corp as I continue to build my AP collection over the coming years.

So in summary, deal with a corp owned boutique and try to avoid the grey dealers. They are just buying the watches from the partner boutiques and marking them up. We need to try and discourage this practice as a community. Hopefully, once the transition to all Corp owned boutiques is finished, this will be a thing of the past.

[GS93108]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Apple still lets me pre-order on launch day, and I'll receive it a couple weeks later.

I can't pre-order a 15500 Blue dial and receive it a year, or two, or three later. There's no "pre-order."

I hear you on supply/demand, but let's be honest, AP can easily up the supply here (and reduce supply of garbage pieces). Ferrari doesn't have garbage models they can reduce production to increase capacity for hot models. Hamilton can't produce more theatre space.

It's amusing to me that so many 'hot' models are really only hot because they are scarce. Let's be honest, the 15202, to 15500 and 15407 are so over hyped on forums like this that its no wonder there's huge demand and the grey market prices are bonkers.

We live in times of actual supply and artificial demand. I bet if the 15202 was readily available on a walk in basis and AP supplied everyone that wanted one, then no one would want one.

If a luxury brand ever produce enough product to fulfil demand then they stop being a luxury ("exclusive") brand.

Let's be honest, we are all delusional, paying ridiculous money for watches made out of the same steel that cutlery is made from. Any one ever buy a Scotty Cameron GSS putter? I'm guilty of that sin too.

I really don't think there's an answer, play the game, or don't, I think that's all we have.

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Agreed.

Still, that requires expanding production between brands / factories / autonomous corporate entities.

My AP argument simply requires them to reduce output of lower selling references in favor of increasing output for better selling references. :) A much, much simpler action.

Yes, that's totally true as one course of action. It seems like the CEO is much preferring the route where units can remain roughly the same but increasing revenue through price increases though. Not sure I agree as a customer, guess we'll see if he's right or if we're right when the downturn is in full swing.

In the mean time, I do applaud them on the boldness of trying to increase a desirable line, even if the Code has not found it's stride yet. the open work Code shows potential of the line though. I genuinely hope they succeed since I am preferring AP over PP as the current era of the brand.

Back to the OP, I think if there was a specific ROO you wanted, I don't think the NY or BH botiques would have difficulty sourcing, but they will be noncommittal in person, and they also won't deal over the phone which can be difficult in the current travel hassels. I sincerely hope you're able to get your foot in the door.

[phow]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

but they will be noncommittal in person, and they also won't deal over the phone which can be difficult in the current travel hassels. I sincerely hope you're able to get your foot in the door.

That is not true. My entire purchase with NYC was done over phone, text and email. Shipped to my door in LA.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Which watch do you wear in as a “free agent” still picking which Botique to work with? Serious question.

I wear my ROO 42mm and omega moon watch all the time. Sometimes I steal my wife’s grand seiko in gold for a dinner party or so... that’s why I like AP because it’s casual. I’m not big on Rolex but like PP but even crazier than AP and less entry level watches though.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Agreed.

Still, that requires expanding production between brands / factories / autonomous corporate entities.

My AP argument simply requires them to reduce output of lower selling references in favor of increasing output for better selling references. :) A much, much simpler action.

It’s not quite as simple as flicking a switch to produce more of watch A and less of watch B. That’s just not how manufacturing works.

Sure it’s possible with some planning but that would go directly in the opposite direction AP want to head in so don’t see it happening soon.

If it was your business would you use more or less production slots to manufacture entry level SS pieces or higher value PM/ complicated watches knowing virtually every single watch you will make that year will sell anyway ?

Why flood the market with lower profit pieces, which when kept scarce self fuel hype and drive desirability. They are planning for many years ahead, not just the next quarter.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by GS93108

Just to add my two pennies...

AP try to interact with their clients and do so via their 'events' such as golf, art, music etc, and they are constantly evaluating new mediums to adopt to facilitate that interaction. Unfortunately, if you aren't a golfer or art lover then at the moment you aren't likely to get much direct interaction with them and thus a boutique or AD is the first and only real point of contact.

My wife has two AP's and she's a little miffed that she doesn't get the invitations that I do, so even in my household we have a differing experience :)

AP House 'should' be the main medium for direct interaction with AP, over and above special events, so always make yourself known to an AP House. I can't recommend AP House London enough.

There's no issue buying grey, but equally starting any sort of relationship with AP now costs nothing, and it may not yield anything for years, but then again it might.

Good luck.

I love art and I’m an avid golfer but how do I get invited to these events ? Would love nothing more. Big fan of Ian poulter, Hendrik Stenson And Victor L. ( Norwegian rookie). Would love nothing more to get invited to these events... how do I make that happen I’m assuming one or two watches won’t do it.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I am with you, and it really is sad (and frustrating). Back in April, I tried to work with the boutique to get my first ROO. It really was a joke. I was offered I believe 3 models and every one of them I would really be a fool to buy at MSRP + tax. Everything else (inclusive of models that are not selling gray at any premium at all) was "Nope, no way. Not now". I wasn't trying to get anything remotely exclusive, either. Although, I did try and get a blue camo which is not the easiest watch to get and may not even be available any longer. I dunno...

Here's what finally became clear in my head - Why would I pay $5k to $7k more for a watch when you're basically telling me nothing is available now, and there was literally no interest in agreeing to work with me towards something more exclusive OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS?

At some point, you really have to pull yourself away and admit you're playing a sucker's game. Which, lead me to what I said. I now try and keep multiple channels open. This approach has already paid dividends for me.

Agreed, unfortunately this seems to be the the only reasonable approach. Any AP grey dealers on the West Coast you recommend please PM me.

[trfChris]

Originally Posted by phow

So in summary, deal with a corp owned boutique and try to avoid the grey dealers. They are just buying the watches from the partner boutiques and marking them up. We need to try and discourage this practice as a community.

I disagree, I wholeheartedly encourage the practice of grey dealers marking up the watches! If the grey dealers didn’t mark up the popular watches we’d have to wait on silly waiting lists at the grey dealers too! As others have said, market prices are determined by supply and demand, nothing more nothing less.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Well while that's true, surely Fiat could surely expand production of more cars if it wanted to reach equilibrium. And of course we have that Disney+ version of Hamilton now... I think in luxury business model, at some point, you are in fact paying for scarcity, i.e. paying a higher price so someone else can't buy an additional unit.

I might suggest to the OP that age and perception as a long term customer might be playing an issue resulting in getting 'disqualified' as a true prospect for the specific boutique or sales associate.

Might be truly the case and again this ain’t life or death just getting more and more into it and the chase while frustrating at times is also fun. Sometimes you feel a bit silly though ... thanks for all the feedback from everyone much appreciated.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by macrowatch

Yes, that's totally true as one course of action. It seems like the CEO is much preferring the route where units can remain roughly the same but increasing revenue through price increases though. Not sure I agree as a customer, guess we'll see if he's right or if we're right when the downturn is in full swing.

In the mean time, I do applaud them on the boldness of trying to increase a desirable line, even if the Code has not found it's stride yet. the open work Code shows potential of the line though. I genuinely hope they succeed since I am preferring AP over PP as the current era of the brand.

Back to the OP, I think if there was a specific ROO you wanted, I don't think the NY or BH botiques would have difficulty sourcing, but they will be noncommittal in person, and they also won't deal over the phone which can be difficult in the current travel hassels. I sincerely hope you're able to get your foot in the door.

Checked with Bal Harbour and Vegas and both only have two ROO 44mm available: pink gold and the grey/ black titanium one. Nothing else they commit to. I also like white diver. But I’m not sure because there are so many grey market options including non blue 15500 barely over MSRP.

To put a long story short. I prefer buying new at the boutique and would love nothing more than to attend golf events and such and also see myself being a long term AP collectior. I don’t have millions but I can buy a watch per year and hope to buy more once I get older. Can I buy grey ? sure but only if the situation won’t improve at all over the next year or so.

[phow]

Originally Posted by trfChris

I disagree, I wholeheartedly encourage the practice of grey dealers marking up the watches! If the grey dealers didn’t mark up the popular watches we’d have to wait on silly waiting lists at the grey dealers too! As others have said, market prices are determined by supply and demand, nothing more nothing less.

The grey dealers marking up the watches is one thing. The grey market should be a place you can go to purchase watches that are not brand new from the boutique at whatever price the market dictates.

The partner boutiques not selling to real customers while they secretly sell to the greys is a totally separate issue. AP wants their watches to go from the factory, to the boutique and to the end customer. They don’t want the greys involved and I see no reason to believe the greys are contributing to anything but frustration. AP doesn’t make enough watches to satisfy demand and that’s all that matters when it comes to market values.

Also, the greys don’t actually have the watches they are listing for sale... Most of the listings you see on Chrono24 are from greys that know they can call the local boutique and have the watch within 24 hours.

And none of this really helps the secondary market. Your chances of actually getting those prices as a private seller are slim to none.

[maruchan22]

Originally Posted by GS93108

Just to add my two pennies...

AP try to interact with their clients and do so via their 'events' such as golf, art, music etc, and they are constantly evaluating new mediums to adopt to facilitate that interaction. Unfortunately, if you aren't a golfer or art lover then at the moment you aren't likely to get much direct interaction with them and thus a boutique or AD is the first and only real point of contact.

My wife has two AP's and she's a little miffed that she doesn't get the invitations that I do, so even in my household we have a differing experience :)

AP House 'should' be the main medium for direct interaction with AP, over and above special events, so always make yourself known to an AP House. I can't recommend AP House London enough.



There's no issue buying grey, but equally starting any sort of relationship with AP now costs nothing, and it may not yield anything for years, but then again it might.

Good luck.

Does AP house has a different client /allocation model than Corp Boutique?
In other words, is it easier to get a hot model via AP house?

[mwc5k]

Originally Posted by kdphan

Interesting times we live in where we have to kiss someone’s ass so that we can throw $$ at them.

No luxury item is worth that imo.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Apple still lets me pre-order on launch day, and I'll receive it a couple weeks later.

I can't pre-order a 15500 Blue dial and receive it a year, or two, or three later. There's no "pre-order."

I hear you on supply/demand, but let's be honest, AP can easily up the supply here (and reduce supply of garbage pieces). Ferrari doesn't have garbage models they can reduce production to increase capacity for hot models. Hamilton can't produce more theatre space.

Are you sure that you can’t pre order a blue dial 15500? Do you mean that you can’t or no one can?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sookainian]

Originally Posted by dauster

I will just go grey from now on then. They would not even commit to any color 15500 in SS if I were to buy my 2nd watch in 6 months (I like the white diver). So after potentially spending basically $50k loyally at their boutique they would not even promise a SS 15500 ?

Sad to say, spending $50k loyally is nothing to them. They have alot of customer that buy watch from them every 2-3 weeks and each time easily >$30k... Just like my friends

[dauster]

Originally Posted by phow

I haven't read through the entire thread but a few points that might help the OP:

1. Don't waste your time with partner boutiques or AD's. My understanding based on my own experiencing is that Corp AP boutiques get the most allocations and those allocations are sold to real customers. Partner boutiques and AD's are lower priority as many simply sell out the back door to established grey dealers.

Think about is this way, as a partner boutique or AD who really doesn't have a vested interested in the customer perception of the brand, why would they go through the motions and trouble selling to unknown customers (returns, chargebacks, etc) when they can just shoot the inventory right out the back door to established grey dealers who likely pay full price anyway?

2. AP is supposedly phasing out the partner boutiques and AD's. This means establishing a relationship with either of these is a giant waste of time as the purchase history will likely mean very little when those dealers are phased out.
So in summary, deal with a corp owned boutique and try to avoid the grey dealers. They are just buying the watches from the partner boutiques and marking them up. We need to try and discourage this practice as a community. Hopefully, once the transition to all Corp owned boutiques is finished, this will be a thing of the past.

Las Vegas boutique in crystals just opened a few years back and my understanding is that AP wants to sell only through mono branded stores that only sell their product. I don’t think they will go full corporate otherwise that would mean a whole bunch of new leases and commitments. That transition will take years if that’s what they are truly planning.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by sookainian

Sad to say, spending $50k loyally is nothing to them. They have alot of customer that buy watch from them every 2-3 weeks and each time easily >$30k... Just like my friends

Not to say there are not a lot of people with ridiculous money but who buys consistently a watch every couple weeks ? Really? I guess I really live in “poor ville”.

[sgwatchguy]

Originally Posted by sookainian

Sad to say, spending $50k loyally is nothing to them. They have alot of customer that buy watch from them every 2-3 weeks and each time easily >$30k... Just like my friends

Really? I have to find new friends. May be that way I land a jumbo faster.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by sookainian

Sad to say, spending $50k loyally is nothing to them. They have alot of customer that buy watch from them every 2-3 weeks and each time easily >$30k... Just like my friends

I don’t believe this is happening as AP are careful to make sure that people aren’t buying watches to flip, anyone who is buying a brand new watch every 2-3 weeks is more likely to be flipping them than keeping them. I doubt even Conkers buys that many watches, although I could be wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ragsk]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

I am with you, and it really is sad (and frustrating). Back in April, I tried to work with the boutique to get my first ROO. It really was a joke. I was offered I believe 3 models and every one of them I would really be a fool to buy at MSRP + tax. Everything else (inclusive of models that are not selling gray at any premium at all) was "Nope, no way. Not now". I wasn't trying to get anything remotely exclusive, either. Although, I did try and get a blue camo which is not the easiest watch to get and may not even be available any longer. I dunno...

Here's what finally became clear in my head - Why would I pay $5k to $7k more for a watch when you're basically telling me nothing is available now, and there was literally no interest in agreeing to work with me towards something more exclusive OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS?

At some point, you really have to pull yourself away and admit you're playing a sucker's game. Which, lead me to what I said. I now try and keep multiple channels open. This approach has already paid dividends for me.

This is annoying. Truth is no Offshore model is that hard to get and grey prices attest to that. Try somewhere else.