Why is VC in the holy trinity?

[Pongster]

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[kelv_w]

Originally Posted by tom2517

There are some that believes VC makes better watches than Patek, they are just not as good at marketing.

Interesting, that's what I've been told too. Apparently it came from a watchmaker.

What I like about visiting VC boutique is their hospitality.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by tom2517

There are some that believes VC makes better watches than Patek, they are just not as good at marketing.

That is what I believe.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by kelv_w

Interesting, that's what I've been told too. Apparently it came from a watchmaker.

What I like about visiting VC boutique is their hospitality.

I am buying my VC watches from the wrong store!

[Abdullasaif]

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[Plastique999]

Originally Posted by Abdullasaif

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Beautiful 1921!
I’ve been wanting to add one to my collection.


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[kelv_w]

that 1921 is simply stunning!! Nothing quite like it

[improviz]

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

I was referring to both, historical and modern AP. Historically, I never stated AP were insignificant, simply that Breguet are more important (as evidenced previously).
As evidenced by you, since 2000 (modern AP) there hasn't been much to hang their hat on imho. A 6hz movement in 2006 (Breguet released a 10hz movement in 2014) and the first forged carbon case. Great. Since that time, Lange have created a Triple Split chrono and a stop seconds tourbillon (to my knowledge the only company to be able to achieve either).

That list was far from comprehensive, and each maker can boast their list of world's firsts. The fact that AP is regarded as one of the top three brands while Breguet isn't is hardly going to be overridden by your contrarianism or personal dislike of the brand.

Also conveniently moving scale to 2000 leaves out AP's development of first self-winding tourbillon wristwatch, in 1986.

As to high frequency movements: actually AP developed a 12Hz movement--in 2006:
http://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/mad...-time-keeping/

The Schumacher Laptimer with triple-column wheel and alternating consecutive lap timing and double flyback (world first) was released in 2012:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ael-schumacher

The Laptimer Michael Schumacher is the very first mechanical chronograph with alternating consecutive lap timing and flyback functionality, and this is all made possible by a downright nasty new caliber from AP. Caliber 2923 is the product of over five years worth of work and features no less than three column wheels. One column wheel, located at the six o’clock position, controls the chronograph sequence, while the two at the 12 o’clock position control the complex laptimer sequence.

So, I think it's a bit of a stretch to state they've had no accomplishments since 2000...I'm sure there are other examples, I know they've recently released new calibers and as I recall recently released one which tracks sunset/sunrise based upon latitude tuned by user, but frankly this isn't worth my time to look up, you've shown an obvious bias against AP for some time and I've already wasted enough time arguing with you about it. AP earned this slot, and there are a multitude of factors which led to their getting it.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by improviz

That list was far from comprehensive, and each maker can boast their list of world's firsts. The fact that AP is regarded as one of the top three brands while Breguet isn't is hardly going to be overridden by your contrarianism or personal dislike of the brand.

Also conveniently moving scale to 2000 leaves out AP's development of first self-winding tourbillon wristwatch, in 1986.

As to high frequency movements: actually AP developed a 12Hz movement--in 2006:
http://www.audemarspiguet.com/en/mad...-time-keeping/

The Schumacher Laptimer with triple-column wheel and alternating consecutive lap timing and double flyback (world first) was released in 2012:
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/th...ael-schumacher


So, I think it's a bit of a stretch to state they've had no accomplishments since 2000...I'm sure there are other examples, I know they've recently released new calibers and as I recall recently released one which tracks sunset/sunrise based upon latitude tuned by user, but frankly this isn't worth my time to look up, you've shown an obvious bias against AP for some time and I've already wasted enough time arguing with you about it. AP earned this slot, and there are a multitude of factors which led to their getting it.

I have no personal distaste for the brand, and I'm no contrarian. I'm objectively looking at Breguet's historical accomplishments to APs.

Again, nobody is saying AP haven't accomplished alot, they are clearly a top brand with great historical prominence. What myself and some others are saying is Breguet are more important historically and should have been in the "Holy Trinity". I hardly except AP to be jettisoned because of the opinions of some people on this thread, myself included. That doesn't mean those opinions shouldn't be expressed or discussed on a watch forum.

I "conveniently" picked 2000 because we were talking about modern/ recent accomplishments, comparing AP to Lange in that timeframe (2000 seemed like a nice cutoff for what it considered modern). My point here is, if we were creating a modern day "Holy Trinity", Lange would be included.

[tom2517]

It’s probably time to rethink the holy trinity anyways, the term was coined what, in the 1970s? With the popularity of Patek around here obviously it will remain in there, but I would think plenty of people want to put ALS in there somewhere (assuming it doesn’t have to be exclusively a Swiss brand).

Personally I would kick out AP, they are just too much of a one trick pony for me. The obvious choice for most here would to be to disregard VC, it’s not a popular brand. But in terms of just watch making, they are much more well rounded than AP.

[steeevvvooo]

Would the holy spirit be kicked out of the Catholic "holy trinity" in place of Mother Theresa because she has done more for the faith/world/poor or whatever in the last XX number of years? I am Catholic so please don't report this as hate speech! :)

The answer is NO!!

By all means create a "modern trinity", a "hot trinity" or whatever but the traditional "holy trinity" for watches is what it is. Please respect it as watch enthusiasts for the respective brand's history, innovations, artisanal skill, tradition etc. You don't have to love the watches, but in the watch community (which is much broader than TRF...) those are the old guard and the trinity is the trinity. No substitutions allowed...

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[Rodrigo082]

Originally Posted by Cooper33

I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of owners of luxury watches couldn't care less about retail value, I know that I don't. If it appreciates, great, but who gives a shit. If you think you'll really need the money in the future and selling a few pieces will make a difference in your life, perhaps buying them in the first place wasn't a good move. They're meant to be bought with disposable income.

A brand new Ferrari also takes a hit the day it leaves the dealership, but I don't imagine owners really care about that.

But that's the current state of affairs...guess the "hot demand" created a whole new segment of "value retention enthusiasts"...

Best post ever !!! Even if I own Rolex, I know it’s not near AP, VC, PP, Lange and few more... my grail watch is a Lange for sure...

Rolex pricing is very much affordable for many and that’s the reason why there is more people able to buy one (Average Joe) who cares about resell value as probably these few thousand euros is there long saving “investment”

PP for example, the entry level PP Aquanaut cause already more then a Sky Dweller and grey market, currently cause what 2x Daytona’s are selling for grey ...so of course the market is more limit to the persons who really have the money to get luxury watches ... and not average Joe

[Jace]

Originally Posted by othertbone

The only thing I think about when I see a VC on a guys wrist is that he got hosed for 40% after purchase.

To be fair, pretty much every watch brand depreciates after purchased. Including Lange, FP Journe and other amazing independents. I have never paid retail for the few versions of the Royal Oak I have owned including the cchronograph and perpetual calendar. This paying over retail thing is a recent trend.


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[Jace]

Originally Posted by Jace

To be fair, pretty much every watch brand depreciates after purchased. Including Lange, FP Journe and other amazing independents. I have never paid retail for the few versions of the Royal Oak I have owned including the cchronograph and perpetual calendar. This paying over retail thing is a recent trend.


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And to add as an afterthought, I have owned multiple models from all three of the holy Trinity. I have also owned a single Lange. It didn’t last long. This is because they make superlative dress watches and I just don’t have a need for that. There is a rumor that they are about to make a sport watch. I would love that.

My current day to day watch is the VC overseas simple three hand with blue face. The first modern iteration sport watch from the holy trinity.


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[jtli202]

I think the holy trinity name is stupid tbh. But VC does make a good watch. I love the new overseas blue dial

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[Jace]

Originally Posted by jtli202

I think the holy trinity name is stupid tbh. But VC does make a good watch. I love the new overseas blue dial

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Agree. The term holy Trinity came from the great watch depression caused by quartz watches. These three brands were considered the top dogs at the time. It is a label nothing more. Lange was consumed by east Germany, the independents didn’t exist yet, JLC was primarily a movement manufacturer and other top Swiss brands like GP, Breguet and Blanpain were all there.

Blancpain, which is older than VC, unfortunately died because of it. They were revived but they have not been in continuous operation like VC.

It is the term used by watch collectors, nothing more.


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[chloebear]

Originally Posted by Plastique999

Beautiful 1921!
I’ve been wanting to add one to my collection.


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Absolutely stunning.

The more I look at Vacheron the more I like the brand. I have it narrowed down to an Overseas, Patrimony or a Fifty Six. I find the Maltese Cross - especially on their buckles - to be so damn cool.

[Pongster]

Because it should be


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[Juan Luis]

VC is tops along with Patek for me.

[startrolexendrolex]

Originally Posted by Luther89

That seems a very vague answer. Do they make more complicated watches than anyone else. Have they done something so amazingly groundbreaking such as invest the first waterproof mechanical watch or the first watch to ‘land on the moon’?

Because of this

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[Juan Luis]

Originally Posted by steeevvvooo

Would the holy spirit be kicked out of the Catholic "holy trinity" in place of Mother Theresa because she has done more for the faith/world/poor or whatever in the last XX number of years? I am Catholic so please don't report this as hate speech! :)

The answer is NO!!

By all means create a "modern trinity", a "hot trinity" or whatever but the traditional "holy trinity" for watches is what it is. Please respect it as watch enthusiasts for the respective brand's history, innovations, artisanal skill, tradition etc. You don't have to love the watches, but in the watch community (which is much broader than TRF...) those are the old guard and the trinity is the trinity. No substitutions allowed...

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Exactly!

[EdwardC]

Originally Posted by Pongster

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Really want to see one of these in person. I heard the brown in person is even more attractive than the blue

[Joey5622]

History and craftsmanship of VC is amazing. Just because it is not the "popular" choice nowadays should not take away from the fact that it belongs in the trinity.

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[RTG]

Originally Posted by Luther89

That seems a very vague answer. Do they make more complicated watches than anyone else. Have they done something so amazingly groundbreaking such as invest the first waterproof mechanical watch or the first watch to ‘land on the moon’?

Yes they do. Here is one example. Do a google search for a hundred more. VC will make things that Patek, AP, Rolex, omega wouldn’t dream of. For a price, they’ll make anything a customer wants.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/vachero...atch-hands-on/

[SROB]

Originally Posted by RTG

Yes they do. Here is one example. Do a google search for a hundred more. VC will make things that Patek, AP, Rolex, omega wouldn’t dream of. For a price, they’ll make anything a customer wants.



https://www.ablogtowatch.com/vachero...atch-hands-on/

Amazing piece.

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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Pongster

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Beauty

Originally Posted by EdwardC

Really want to see one of these in person. I heard the brown in person is even more attractive than the blue

I agree and would love to see this color in person

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by jtli202

I think the holy trinity name is stupid tbh. But VC does make a good watch. I love the new overseas blue dial

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Agree with this 110%.

It's like the ridiculous comic book nicknames for Rolex, but perhaps slightly more offensive.

Vacheron has produced some fantastic watches though and has a storied history.

[kelv_w]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

Because of this

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that ultra-thin is amazing and class! love it!

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by EdwardC

Really want to see one of these in person. I heard the brown in person is even more attractive than the blue

You heard right

[Pongster]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Beauty







I agree and would love to see this color in person

Would love to show it to you.


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