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Old 13 June 2021, 09:43 PM   #601
cascavel
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It has just occurred to me that the most active threads on the forums now are “is this watch worth zillions?”. Watch forums used to be used for people to ask questions on how well a movement is finished, any issue for a particular watch, etc.

Nowadays, it feels more like a penny stocks investment forum than a venue to share appreciation of the art and craft. Admittedly, I am also guilty of adding to the fuel here.

We should get back to posting pictures of our watches and discuss about the watches and not the worth of the watches. May be we need an Investment sub forum. ��
The same thing happened on the Paneristi forum back in the days when some Panerais were selling for more than MSRP, of course there was nothing much to discuss regarding the movements.
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Old 13 June 2021, 11:17 PM   #602
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You are making lanteanflux's point for him; even though it's an obvious choice from an horological sense, it's not an easy one from an economic POV. One retails for twice the other, and one sells in the grey market for twice the other and it's not the same one.
One of the problems is that there are many buyers who place zero value on complications, in fact it can be a negative from the perspective of delicacy and service cost and, from a rarity perspective, three hand watches from Patek and Journe are it, particularly in non-precious metal.

The most prized and highly expensive journes are complicated and in precious metals. Early resonances and tourbs with one off dials and brass movements etc

But I know what you mean. Hype beasts don’t care about comps lol they wouldn’t be able to set the damn thing anyways.
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Old 14 June 2021, 12:23 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by cascavel View Post
You are making lanteanflux's point for him; even though it's an obvious choice from an horological sense, it's not an easy one from an economic POV. One retails for twice the other, and one sells in the grey market for twice the other and it's not the same one.
One of the problems is that there are many buyers who place zero value on complications, in fact it can be a negative from the perspective of delicacy and service cost and, from a rarity perspective, three hand watches from Patek and Journe are it, particularly in non-precious metal.
You can also get a JLC perpetual calendar tourbillon or a brueget Torb at similar grey prices.
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Old 14 June 2021, 12:42 AM   #604
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You are making lanteanflux's point for him; even though it's an obvious choice from an horological sense, it's not an easy one from an economic POV. One retails for twice the other, and one sells in the grey market for twice the other and it's not the same one.
One of the problems is that there are many buyers who place zero value on complications, in fact it can be a negative from the perspective of delicacy and service cost and, from a rarity perspective, three hand watches from Patek and Journe are it, particularly in non-precious metal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascavel View Post
You are making lanteanflux's point for him; even though it's an obvious choice from an horological sense, it's not an easy one from an economic POV. One retails for twice the other, and one sells in the grey market for twice the other and it's not the same one.
One of the problems is that there are many buyers who place zero value on complications, in fact it can be a negative from the perspective of delicacy and service cost and, from a rarity perspective, three hand watches from Patek and Journe are it, particularly in non-precious metal.

Well my point was that GreenLantern insists the 5711 and CB aren’t worth $100k yet his own answer shows he knows they’re indeed worth $100k!


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Old 14 June 2021, 12:43 AM   #605
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The most prized and highly expensive journes are complicated and in precious metals. Early resonances and tourbs with one off dials and brass movements etc

But I know what you mean. Hype beasts don’t care about comps lol they wouldn’t be able to set the damn thing anyways.
My personal favorite Journe is the Centigraphe Type F with the red dial in platinum on bracelet. When it was produced MSRP was about $115K, 4.5X the MSRP of a CB. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford it and had to settle for a CB.
I love chronographs and understand the preference true aficionados have for complications as examples of the watchmakers art
At the same time I scratch my head when I read comments condemning the seeming ignorance of hoards of buyers willing to pay more for simple design than for complications. It's their money and a lot of us benefit from it.
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Old 14 June 2021, 12:47 AM   #606
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Well my point was that GreenLantern insists the 5711 and CB aren’t worth $100k yet his own answer shows he knows they’re indeed worth $100k!


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I know a lot of people who, in the 1980s, argued that no Andy Warhol painting was worth $100K. They weren't rare and they were mass produced. Sadly, I was one of those people.
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Old 14 June 2021, 01:04 AM   #607
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The same thing happened on the Paneristi forum back in the days when some Panerais were selling for more than MSRP, of course there was nothing much to discuss regarding the movements.
Ah, Panerai. I almost forgot that I still own a few of them. How tastes change so quickly…
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Old 14 June 2021, 02:06 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by cascavel View Post
My personal favorite Journe is the Centigraphe Type F with the red dial in platinum on bracelet. When it was produced MSRP was about $115K, 4.5X the MSRP of a CB. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford it and had to settle for a CB.
I love chronographs and understand the preference true aficionados have for complications as examples of the watchmakers art
At the same time I scratch my head when I read comments condemning the seeming ignorance of hoards of buyers willing to pay more for simple design than for complications. It's their money and a lot of us benefit from it.

I know that watch. Govberg couldn’t sell it for 100k for what seemed like years lol
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Old 14 June 2021, 02:16 AM   #609
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Doubtful there have been 2000 CBs produced. It was launched in December 2009, so really that's a 2010 start date. How many were produced in a year on average? Maybe 125? So that's 125 x 11 years = 1375. Let's even round up to 1500 total. That is still not many watches produced for such a time span.

Just to help bring that into perspective, currently on Chrono24 there are 409 listings for Patek 5711s.
Around 1500 is correct. Mine is from July 2018 and in the high 1200s.
They cut production to 100 a year a couple of years ago. Not sure they even make close to that number now.
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Old 14 June 2021, 05:13 AM   #610
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Even so is there any specific Journe reference with more units produced?

Even the CS platinum and RG changed dials etc
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Old 14 June 2021, 08:57 AM   #611
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Hmmmm- looks very similar huh. My buddy just lent me his VC 4500v and the dial is very very similar to my CB


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Old 14 June 2021, 11:02 AM   #612
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Hmmmm- looks very similar huh. My buddy just lent me his VC 4500v and the dial is very very similar to my CB


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The CB is quite a bit nicer, in my experience, but VC does own a share in the dial company FPJ majority owns, so maybe there is a little of the same magic.
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Old 14 June 2021, 11:04 AM   #613
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F.P. Journe Chronometer Bleu pricing going through the roof!

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Hmmmm- looks very similar huh. My buddy just lent me his VC 4500v and the dial is very very similar to my CB


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The VC is quite a bit nicer

The Journe looks really nice though.

Let's see the backs side by side!
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Old 14 June 2021, 11:45 AM   #614
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The VC is quite a bit nicer

The Journe looks really nice though.

Let's see the backs side by side!

It’s really hard to compare. VC has amazing finishing but the Journe had a solid gold movement. Both are very nice.




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Old 14 June 2021, 11:50 AM   #615
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F.P. Journe Chronometer Bleu pricing going through the roof!

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It’s really hard to compare. VC has amazing finishing but the Journe had a solid gold movement. Both are very nice.




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Cool pic! Saved! Thanks for sharing that

I've never seen anything like the brushed finish of the VC bracelet and case. It's superb.


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Old 14 June 2021, 03:00 PM   #616
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If CB is discontinued, then the price is not determined by the company. The price is determined by the market. Almost every watch go through that process. some prices will sustain in the long run, but some will not. For example is rolex 5517 USd 200K + watch? 5-10 years ago, most will not agree. Now most will agree. What we should discuss is that 100k of CB is sustainable in the long run ? is it rare enough to hold its value/even appreciated? is it historically important in FP line?
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Old 14 June 2021, 03:07 PM   #617
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If CB is discontinued, then the price is not determined by the company. The price is determined by the market. Almost every watch go through that process. some prices will sustain in the long run, but some will not. For example is rolex 5517 USd 200K + watch? 5-10 years ago, most will not agree. Now most will agree. What we should discuss is that 100k of CB is sustainable in the long run ? is it rare enough to hold its value/even appreciated? is it historically important in FP line?
You're actually making sense.

The market right now makes zero sense.
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Old 14 June 2021, 10:01 PM   #618
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The CB is quite a bit nicer, in my experience, but VC does own a share in the dial company FPJ majority owns, so maybe there is a little of the same magic.
Yes. I was told that this particular VC dial is made by Les Cadraniers de Genčve, so the same factory as the CB as you say. Others have also been told the same (I think our buddy Mo, who owns the VC, also confirmed this presumably on the VC side).
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Old 15 June 2021, 01:31 AM   #619
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It’s really hard to compare. VC has amazing finishing but the Journe had a solid gold movement. Both are very nice.




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The VC case looks significantly bigger than the CB. How does the overseas wear compared to the CB?


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Old 15 June 2021, 06:47 AM   #620
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anyone ever tried to sell a CB? is this the type of watch that dealers all ask 100k but only offer 70k? asking for a friend.
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Old 15 June 2021, 09:23 AM   #621
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anyone ever tried to sell a CB? is this the type of watch that dealers all ask 100k but only offer 70k? asking for a friend.
Not such a spread but 15-20% margin isn't unheard of.
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Old 15 June 2021, 09:24 AM   #622
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The VC case looks significantly bigger than the CB. How does the overseas wear compared to the CB?


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The CB is a 39mm diameter watch with short lugs. Wears like a 38mm sports watch. The VC is a 41mm dial with integrated bracelet that flares out - it wears like a 42mm watch.
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Old 15 June 2021, 02:55 PM   #623
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The VC case looks significantly bigger than the CB. How does the overseas wear compared to the CB?


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Overseas seems HUGE compared to CB on my wrist


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Old 15 June 2021, 09:41 PM   #624
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anyone ever tried to sell a CB? is this the type of watch that dealers all ask 100k but only offer 70k? asking for a friend.

Consign it.
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Old 17 June 2021, 02:31 AM   #625
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30 odd Journes just disappeared from Chrono - total went from 115 to 85... haven’t dug into why but guessing WatchBox pulled their inventory ?


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Old 17 June 2021, 02:46 AM   #626
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Consign it.

Any good consignment place you can recommend? I want to consolidate a few of the less used pieces.
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Old 17 June 2021, 03:03 AM   #627
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Any good consignment place you can recommend? I want to consolidate a few of the less used pieces.

Yes, me. I sell consignment pieces and for a much lower rate than most any dealer you’ll come across.
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Old 18 June 2021, 01:21 AM   #628
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https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/266...ngth=96&page=1
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Old 18 June 2021, 06:09 AM   #629
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That’s a steal. Commission included?
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Old 18 June 2021, 06:25 AM   #630
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That’s a steal. Commission included?
The bubble is bursting!!!!
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